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Kyle Kersten was a true friend of TCM. One of the first and most active participants of the Message Boards, “Kyle in Hollywood” (aka, hlywdkjk) demonstrated a depth of knowledge and largesse of spirit that made him one of the most popular and respected voices in these forums. This thread is a living memorial to his life and love of movies, which remain with us still.

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#241 Princess of Tap

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Posted 09 July 2016 - 12:21 AM

You'd think that an old Marxist like Sartre wouldn't be a
class snob, but the flesh of the bourgeoisie is weak. I suppose
as a reader I was not able to wholly identity with the narrator of
The Fall. I may understand his general condition without fully
empathizing with it. Maybe this shows that there is never a
complete communication between author and reader, with
neither one being at fault. It seems that Camus had more success
in the theater than poor old Flaubert.


Vautrin--

Sartre, de Beauvoir-- they all grew up with servants in the home.

Whereas, Camus father was killed in World War 1, so he was launched into severe poverty. His mother supported him cleaning toilets and they had to live with his paternal grandmother. He got his education on scholarship. (La bourse).

#242 Vautrin

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Posted 09 July 2016 - 12:12 AM

Vautrin--

Camus La Chute is in the wake of a real Civil War between the intellectuals in Paris.Being the poor boy from Algeria, Camus was the one who was put on the outs when he dueled with Sartre.

Coming from Algeria, he couldn't side with the Algerian Rebels and the leftist Parisian intellectuals.

Anyway, La Chute may seem to be superficially amusing, but it is a sarcastic account of a human being going down for the third time. Self- incriminating, self-psychoanalysis, self-damnation, it's a really difficult book to read in French and a difficult book to understand in any language.

The last book that I bought by Camus was his unfinished autobiography--Le Premier Homme. For kicks, I went to his publisher's (Gaillimard)original bookstore in Saint-Germain to buy it.

Camus also wrote some plays. They were not so successful, but the most popular one was Caligula. Needless to say this was a very violent and bloody play.

Camus considered himself to be a man of the theater and was waiting for an appointment to a national Theatre directorship when he died.

You'd think that an old Marxist like Sartre wouldn't be a

class snob, but the flesh of the bourgeoisie is weak. I suppose

as a reader I was not able to wholly identity with the narrator of

The Fall. I may understand his general condition without fully

empathizing with it. Maybe this shows that there is never a

complete communication between author and reader, with

neither one being at fault. It seems that Camus had more success

in the theater than poor old Flaubert.


Curse Sir Walter Raleigh, he was such a stupid get.


#243 Princess of Tap

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Posted 08 July 2016 - 11:53 PM

Since existentialism has a number of variants, I suppose one could
make the argument that Camus was some kind of existentialist, if
not Sartre's type. I wouldn't make it, but others likely would. I haven't
read The Plague in years and it's been even longer for Sisyphus.
The Fall, while the subject matter is serious, seems more lighthearted in
tone and more comic than the other two novels.



Vautrin--

Camus La Chute is in the wake of a real Civil War between the intellectuals in Paris.Being the poor boy from Algeria, Camus was the one who was put on the outs when he dueled with Sartre.

Coming from Algeria, he couldn't side with the Algerian Rebels and the leftist Parisian intellectuals.

Anyway, La Chute may seem to be superficially amusing, but it is a sarcastic account of a human being going down for the third time. Self- incriminating, self-psychoanalysis, self-damnation, it's a really difficult book to read in French and a difficult book to understand in any language.

The last book that I bought by Camus was his unfinished autobiography--Le Premier Homme. For kicks, I went to his publisher's (Gaillimard)original bookstore in Saint-Germain to buy it.

Camus also wrote some plays. They were not so successful, but the most popular one was Caligula. Needless to say this was a very violent and bloody play.

Camus considered himself to be a man of the theater and was waiting for an appointment to a national Theatre directorship when he died.

#244 Princess of Tap

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Posted 08 July 2016 - 11:29 PM

Well, Princess, it has been said, "A little education is a dangerous thing."

And it can take many different shapes. I'm running across some of this in relation to how my wife's stroke is being treated.

I've learned long ago, when my dad had his strokes that there can be many different causes of strokes. Yet what I'm finding is that many(or most) doctors and other medical personel go about treatment as if there's only ONE cause, and try to treat all stroke victims with one generic method. And if the patient doesn't respond to the treatment the way their TEXTBOOKS have told them they SHOULD, then they rely on some other generic template that doesn't much take into consideration the individual. I could go on more about this, but it upsets me, so I'll leave it there.


Sepiatone

Sepia-- I'm sorry to hear about your wife's stroke. I hope that she gets better soon.

But I'm glad you told me about this because I was going through something similar this time last year.

My lawyer, who also happens to be a very close friend, had a stroke out of the blue last year just before the 4th of July.

Of course, he's around our age, but he had no previous problems.

I'm happy to say he's made relatively a full recovery by now. His doctors faulted his diet as a reason for his problems and they gave him some kind of prescription to take.

What happened to him was my first experience with stroke. He was fine one minute and then he said he got sick without warning.

They said there are warning signs for stroke, people don't always see that.

Take care--
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#245 Vautrin

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Posted 08 July 2016 - 11:22 PM

Vautrin-- and you're absolutely right. I can't tell you how many people I've met who had all kinds of degrees in French literature, yet maintained that Camus was an existentialist.

Not to get bogged down in it, but Camus' ideas have more to do with the absurdity of life. But he does come into the human being's engagement with life. His essay the Myth of Sisyphus best explains how he thinks. Engagement does invigorate your life, but it's useless.

I've also heard Camus described by my professors as being a moralist.

I would also recommend Camus La Peste or The Plague in terms of how he sees life engagement. And this novel is much more bleak than L'Etranger.

Since existentialism has a number of variants, I suppose one could

make the argument that Camus was some kind of existentialist, if

not Sartre's type. I wouldn't make it, but others likely would. I haven't

read The Plague in years and it's been even longer for Sisyphus.

The Fall, while the subject matter is serious, seems more lighthearted in

tone and more comic than the other two novels.


Curse Sir Walter Raleigh, he was such a stupid get.


#246 Sepiatone

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Posted 08 July 2016 - 11:17 PM

Well, Princess, it has been said, "A little education is a dangerous thing."

 

And it can take many different shapes.  I'm running across some of this in relation to how my wife's stroke is being treated.

 

I've learned long ago, when my dad had his strokes that there can be many different causes of strokes.  Yet what I'm finding is that many(or most) doctors and other medical personel go about treatment as if there's only ONE cause, and try to treat all stroke victims with one generic method.  And if the patient doesn't respond to the treatment the way their TEXTBOOKS have told them they SHOULD, then they rely on some other generic template that doesn't much take into consideration the individual. I could go on more about this, but it upsets me, so I'll leave it there.

 

 

Sepiatone 


I started out with NOTHING...and still have most of it left!


#247 Princess of Tap

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Posted 08 July 2016 - 05:40 PM

Vautrin-- and you're absolutely right. I can't tell you how many people I've met who had all kinds of degrees in French literature, yet maintained that Camus was an existentialist.

Not to get bogged down in it, but Camus' ideas have more to do with the absurdity of life. But he does come into the human being's engagement with life. His essay the Myth of Sisyphus best explains how he thinks. Engagement does invigorate your life, but it's useless.

I've also heard Camus described by my professors as being a moralist.

I would also recommend Camus La Peste or The Plague in terms of how he sees life engagement. And this novel is much more bleak than L'Etranger.

#248 Vautrin

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Posted 08 July 2016 - 05:16 PM

I don't think Meursault ever made any decisions about his life. He was lacksadaisical and just kind of fell into situations and relationships.

So much of what happened to him was the circumstance of his existence.

He didn't show remorse because that wasn't his personality. Remorse would have been more of a commitment than he could ever give.

He was a part of society but not anchored into the society.

I think it's only at the end of the novel that he actually takes a stand.

Or I should say that, Camus actually makes a personal statement of his philosophy.

Perhaps this is different from Sartre, who, from what I recall,

championed the ability of the individual to consciously shape

his own life and not use the fact of circumstances to excuse

his behavior. I really don't have a dog in this fight, just laying

out the two possible positions.


Curse Sir Walter Raleigh, he was such a stupid get.


#249 Vautrin

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Posted 08 July 2016 - 04:58 PM

Careful doesn't apply here. He channeled Rhett, "Frankly, Scarlett, I don't give a damn."

 

:o

 

=

He was much more indifferent to his fate than I would

have been. If you're going to do something, do it right,

though I realize that wasn't part of his view.


Curse Sir Walter Raleigh, he was such a stupid get.


#250 Princess of Tap

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Posted 08 July 2016 - 04:52 PM

Yes I did. It's a very short novel. The advantage that readers
have is that they can avoid the bone headed decisions the fictional
characters make.



I don't think Meursault ever made any decisions about his life. He was lacksadaisical and just kind of fell into situations and relationships.

So much of what happened to him was the circumstance of his existence.

He didn't show remorse because that wasn't his personality. Remorse would have been more of a commitment than he could ever give.

He was a part of society but not anchored into the society.

I think it's only at the end of the novel that he actually takes a stand.

Or I should say that, Camus actually makes a personal statement of his philosophy.

#251 laffite

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Posted 08 July 2016 - 04:42 PM

Maybe he should have been in the Algerian equivalent of

the Boy Scouts, if there was such a thing. I haven't read

the book in a number of years, so some of the plot details

are sketchy. Maybe he wasn't careful enough to hide his

crime.

 

Careful doesn't apply here. He channeled Rhett, "Frankly, Scarlett, I don't give a damn."

 

:o

 

=



#252 Vautrin

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Posted 08 July 2016 - 04:34 PM

Yes, get in touch with your feelings and don't shoot people. A cautionary tale of the remarkably unsubtle. Oh, and honor your mother and father, especially when they have died in the last 20 minutes.

:D

Maybe he should have been in the Algerian equivalent of

the Boy Scouts, if there was such a thing. I haven't read

the book in a number of years, so some of the plot details

are sketchy. Maybe he wasn't careful enough to hide his

crime.


Curse Sir Walter Raleigh, he was such a stupid get.


#253 laffite

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Posted 08 July 2016 - 04:04 PM

Yes I did. It's a very short novel. The advantage that readers

have is that they can avoid the bone headed decisions the fictional

characters make.

 

Yes, get in touch with your feelings and don't shoot people. A cautionary tale of the remarkably unsubtle. Oh, and honor your mother and father, especially when they have died in the last 20 minutes.

:D



#254 Vautrin

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Posted 08 July 2016 - 03:42 PM

I read Camus' L'Etranger in high school French class. Impressed me greatly but we had to write essays in French on different facets of it.

What I think impressed me the most was the way he drew out his characters--The descriptions, their dialogues and their lifestyles. They seemed to be Flesh and Blood people to me.

Vautrin-- It's a cool lifestyle until the end.

You did read the end, didn't you?

Yes I did. It's a very short novel. The advantage that readers

have is that they can avoid the bone headed decisions the fictional

characters make.


Curse Sir Walter Raleigh, he was such a stupid get.


#255 laffite

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Posted 08 July 2016 - 12:49 PM

I read Camus' L'Etranger in high school French class. Impressed me greatly but we had to write essays in French on different facets of it.

What I think impressed me the most was the way he drew out his characters--The descriptions, their dialogues and their lifestyles. They seemed to be Flesh and Blood people to me.

Vautrin-- It's a cool lifestyle until the end.

You did read the end, didn't you?

 

All except Meursault maybe, eh?

 

;)

 

--



#256 Princess of Tap

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Posted 07 July 2016 - 11:54 PM

I remember reading The Stranger as a teenager and thinking
Wow, this is cool. The guy hangs around the beach, has a
hot girlfriend, and doesn't seem to work very much. Where
can I sign up for this existentialism jazz.



I read Camus' L'Etranger in high school French class. Impressed me greatly but we had to write essays in French on different facets of it.

What I think impressed me the most was the way he drew out his characters--The descriptions, their dialogues and their lifestyles. They seemed to be Flesh and Blood people to me.

Vautrin-- It's a cool lifestyle until the end.

You did read the end, didn't you?

#257 Vautrin

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Posted 07 July 2016 - 11:30 PM

I remember reading The Stranger as a teenager and thinking

Wow, this is cool. The guy hangs around the beach, has a

hot girlfriend, and doesn't seem to work very much. Where

can I sign up for this existentialism jazz.


Curse Sir Walter Raleigh, he was such a stupid get.


#258 SansFin

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Posted 07 July 2016 - 08:26 PM

I am concerned of late of words which have multiple meanings and so are nice and normal words but which some might consider to be inappropriate at any time.

 

I present for your consideration words which I can not use:

 

ajM2JT5.jpg

 

OjsrQwJ.jpg


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Warning: I can be very condescending. (That means I talk down to people.)


#259 laffite

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Posted 07 July 2016 - 04:19 PM

French writer Albert Camus was so plagued by tuberculosis that he couldn't finish his studies for the French PhD teaching equivalent for higher education, l'agrégation.

As a result he couldn't make a living teaching like Sartre or Simone de Beauvoir, so he resorted to the theatre to journalism and eventually writing fiction. For that reason both of those other writers often looked down on him, especially as he disagreed with some aspects of their philosophy and their later adhearance to the Communist Party.

In fact, it was his tuberculosis that caused him to be in France and able to take part in the resistance-- having gone to the unoccupied zone for treatment of tuberculosis, he got stuck there.

But ironically, Camus died in an automobile accident and not from tuberculosis.

 

As young students studying French those early college days, the all of us were totally enamored with L'Etranger (The Stranger, no relation to the movie as is probably known here.) It was probably the first "real" and "bonafide" book in French that us newbies could actually read with some understanding. Though the subject be deep, Camus' lucid style was fairly accessible at that early level and we thrilled to it.


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#260 Vautrin

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Posted 07 July 2016 - 03:59 PM

French writer Albert Camus was so plagued by tuberculosis that he couldn't finish his studies for the French PhD teaching equivalent for higher education, l'agrégation.

As a result he couldn't make a living teaching like Sartre or Simone de Beauvoir, so he resorted to the theatre to journalism and eventually writing fiction. For that reason both of those other writers often looked down on him, especially as he disagreed with some aspects of their philosophy and their later adhearance to the Communist Party.

In fact, it was his tuberculosis that caused him to be in France and able to take part in the resistance-- having gone to the unoccupied zone for treatment of tuberculosis, he got stuck there.

But ironically, Camus died in an automobile accident and not from tuberculosis.

I didn't realize Camus suffered from TB, or else had read about it and forgot

it. I know that he and Sartre had a falling out, though I always assumed it

was over philosophical and political matters. Of course it is often pointed out

as one of the ironies of life that he died in a car crash while his publisher was

driving.


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Curse Sir Walter Raleigh, he was such a stupid get.





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