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Kyle Kersten was a true friend of TCM. One of the first and most active participants of the Message Boards, “Kyle in Hollywood” (aka, hlywdkjk) demonstrated a depth of knowledge and largesse of spirit that made him one of the most popular and respected voices in these forums. This thread is a living memorial to his life and love of movies, which remain with us still.

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Handsome men who did not become movie stars


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#41 rayban

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 06:05 PM

I like both classic and modern films and actors, as well as NCIS: LA.  I love Matt Bohmer and quite a few others.  Guys like Chris Hemsworth and Channing Tatum are too young for me, and although the young Tyrone Power and Alain Delon are described as "pretty" sometimes, I find that "prettiness" more apparent in young blond men, and it doesn't appeal to me. I guess I like what used to be called the "heroic" look - which was the old movie star look - dark hair, handsome, smooth, that sort of man.  Though I do like young Marlon Brando's looks.  

Alain Delon had such sexual charmisa for me

 

I remember his staircase entrance in "Borsalino".

 

The movie audience clapped.

 

I was blown away, too.


"I was born the day she kissed me.  I died the day she left me.  I lived a few weeks while she loved me." - Humphrey Bogart in "In A Lonely Place".


#42 chandler5710

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 04:28 PM

I added some modern stars on purpose. I am at the age where I find both classic stars (Gregory Peck, Burt Lancaster) and modern stars (Chris Hemsworth, Matt Bomer) attractive. A classic film fan can also like NCIS: Los Angeles. Just sayin'.

 

I like both classic and modern films and actors, as well as NCIS: LA.  I love Matt Bohmer and quite a few others.  Guys like Chris Hemsworth and Channing Tatum are too young for me, and although the young Tyrone Power and Alain Delon are described as "pretty" sometimes, I find that "prettiness" more apparent in young blond men, and it doesn't appeal to me. I guess I like what used to be called the "heroic" look - which was the old movie star look - dark hair, handsome, smooth, that sort of man.  Though I do like young Marlon Brando's looks.  


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#43 Jlewis

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 01:32 PM

And we should also factor in culture. The Latino gay community is a bit different than other ethnic communities when it comes dealing with sexual identity. I don't mean different in a negative way-- just different-- so Novarro's struggles were obviously unique to him and his own particular background.

 

Because he was a major bread earner in his family, they turned a blind eye to certain things. He was very good at managing his money and remained fairly wealthy, enough to not have to do any acting in the 1950s and only return to a few TV appearances the following decade. The Ferguson brothers thought they could rob him successfully, but he didn't leave a lot of idle cash laying around. They were Catholic too and the older brother used his religious based homophobia in his defense at court (as if it really mattered considering all of his own sexual exploits pre-Novarro).

 

Off topic, although I discussed this before on this messageboard in the past:

 

I always found it interesting that Midnight Cowboy was filmed in 1968 just prior to Novarro's death (although a few retakes might have occurred after). There is a key scene with Jon Voight's Joe strangling a devout and closeted Catholic sixty-something businessman in his hotel. He was trying to remain "good" in his eyes and didn't go through with it, but Joe needed extra money to get Dustin Hoffman's Rico to Miami and was in a state of desperation. Not that fiction matched reality here exactly, but I always felt that timing was important. The movie opened in theaters in May 1969 and the Ferguson bothers trial started in July, with the Stonewall uprising in-between. The movie in particular was a snapshot of pre-Stonewall urban gay life, which Hollywood had no problem awarding at that time. (Unlike all of the skittishness with Brokeback Mountain later, which could be repeated this month with Moonlight as well.) Four "types" featured: Joe the Hustler who mostly chased women and insisted he was no more gay than John Wayne (and Brenda Vacarro knew exactly what word would get a rise out of him), the seemingly self-confident cross-dresser (and they were the ones openly defiant at Stonewall later since they already were considered outcasts and had nothing to lose), the teenager not wanting his mother to find out and the middle aged business man dealing with his religious issues. (The same openly gay director made Sunday Bloody Sunday next, which showed what a difference just two years made, in addition to the Brits being a lot more comfortable with it than Americans overall.)


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#44 rayban

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 11:40 AM

Grant Williams really is an interesting enigma.

 

He died shortly before Rock Hudson, whose death pretty much started a new trend with actors and actresses "coming out" without as much shame as in the past. Many of these did so in the 1990s when the Clinton administration was more tolerant and many felt that the AIDS epidemic had caused more homophobia than necessary. Their coming out was part of a wider cause.

 

Even if he claimed to be straight, something wasn't quite adjusted in his make-up because he didn't seem any more excited over women than, say, Roddy McDowell. Actually McDowell would have been a good role model for him, keeping his private life discrete but also not being a huge constantly-in-the-public star who had to worry about his private life. Not that McDowell did all that much and biographers are still debating whom all he was intimate with due to all of the "we don't kiss and tell". He was quite happy wearing the ape costumes in Planet of the Apes and providing voice-work to animated cartoons of Chuck Jones, so he was still successful in his career without interviewers constantly bombarding him with "when are you getting married" questions.

 

My impression after reading up on him is that both his religion and his military training were at play here. He was very disciplined and loved a lot of structure. Maybe he was OK not acting on any physical desires if they weren't of the "norm". It is tempting to think he experimented a little in his youth, but felt he "sinned" and would not try it again. Or maybe, he favored women more than men but was way too nitpicky. Maybe he remained a virgin? Not that it matters, since many people lead very successful lives staying virgins. It is only a state of mind that you are either comfortable or uncomfortable with. After all, not everybody has tried scuba diving either and, like sex, it may not be that big of a deal.

 

Ramon Novarro was a devout Catholic who was, of course, outed after his death, but he "compartmentalized" his faith and his physical desires separately in a rather intriguing way as profiled in Andre Soares' excellent Beyond Paradise. Novarro's biggest vice was his alcoholism, which prompted him to be less discrete and careless in his final years. That is how the two hustlers took advantage of him and killed him.

I watched Roddy McDowall recently in two "The Alfred Hitchcock Hour" episodes.

 

He was quite obviously - now - a sexually-active gay man.


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"I was born the day she kissed me.  I died the day she left me.  I lived a few weeks while she loved me." - Humphrey Bogart in "In A Lonely Place".


#45 TopBilled

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 11:27 AM

Ramon Novarro was a devout Catholic who was, of course, outed after his death, but he "compartmentalized" his faith and his physical desires separately in a rather intriguing way as profiled in Andre Soares' excellent Beyond Paradise. Novarro's biggest vice was his alcoholism, which prompted him to be less discrete and careless in his final years. That is how the two hustlers took advantage of him and killed him.

 

And we should also factor in culture. The Latino gay community is a bit different than other ethnic communities when it comes dealing with sexual identity. I don't mean different in a negative way-- just different-- so Novarro's struggles were obviously unique to him and his own particular background.


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#46 Jlewis

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 08:43 AM

Grant Williams really is an interesting enigma.

 

He died shortly before Rock Hudson, whose death pretty much started a new trend with actors and actresses "coming out" without as much shame as in the past. Many of these did so in the 1990s when the Clinton administration was more tolerant and many felt that the AIDS epidemic had caused more homophobia than necessary. Their coming out was part of a wider cause.

 

Even if he claimed to be straight, something wasn't quite adjusted in his make-up because he didn't seem any more excited over women than, say, Roddy McDowall. Actually McDowall would have been a good role model for him, keeping his private life discrete but also not being a huge constantly-in-the-public star who had to worry about his private life. Not that McDowall did all that much and biographers are still debating whom all he was intimate with due to all of the "we don't kiss and tell". He was quite happy wearing the ape costumes in Planet of the Apes and providing voice-work to animated cartoons of Chuck Jones, so he was still successful in his career without interviewers constantly bombarding him with "when are you getting married" questions.

 

My impression after reading up on him is that both his religion and his military training were at play here. He was very disciplined and loved a lot of structure. Maybe he was OK not acting on any physical desires if they weren't of the "norm". It is tempting to think he experimented a little in his youth, but felt he "sinned" and would not try it again. Or maybe, he favored women more than men but was way too nitpicky. Maybe he remained a virgin? Not that it matters, since many people lead very successful lives staying virgins. It is only a state of mind that you are either comfortable or uncomfortable with. After all, not everybody has tried scuba diving either and, like sex, it may not be that big of a deal.

 

Ramon Novarro was a devout Catholic who was, of course, outed after his death, but he "compartmentalized" his faith and his physical desires separately in a rather intriguing way as profiled in Andre Soares' excellent Beyond Paradise. Novarro's biggest vice was his alcoholism, which prompted him to be less discrete and careless in his final years. That is how the two hustlers took advantage of him and killed him.


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#47 rayban

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 08:38 AM

Another take on him:

http://neptsdepths.b...ing-career.html

 

Williams departure from the world of TV and movies has always been something of a mystery, not because he was a huge star, but because he was an actor who generally received good reviews for his work and seemed to have the right ingredients to have at least as successful career as some of his less talented peers who fared better.

 

He always denied that there was any friction with the studio chiefs, having never rejected a role or gone on suspension (perhaps he should have turned down a couple of those parts along the way!) Other accounts claim that he was a victim of homophobia, he being a lifelong bachelor who was rarely seen on dates whether for publicity or otherwise. For his part, he staunchly denied this. A devout Catholic, he stated that he would never even portray a homosexual (though there have been a lot of homosexuals who wouldn’t play one!)

He was obviously a homosexual man; he was just so, so beautiful.

 

But a lot of homosexual men do not fare well within the studio system.

 

The constant spotlight is just too glaring.

 

Another example is Carlton Carpenter.

 

And, of course, there are plenty more.


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"I was born the day she kissed me.  I died the day she left me.  I lived a few weeks while she loved me." - Humphrey Bogart in "In A Lonely Place".


#48 Jlewis

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 07:59 AM

Was he gay?  His male beauty is very well used by Jack Arnold in the great " The Incredible Shrinking Man"

 

Another take on him:

http://neptsdepths.b...ing-career.html

 

Williams departure from the world of TV and movies has always been something of a mystery, not because he was a huge star, but because he was an actor who generally received good reviews for his work and seemed to have the right ingredients to have at least as successful career as some of his less talented peers who fared better.

 

He always denied that there was any friction with the studio chiefs, having never rejected a role or gone on suspension (perhaps he should have turned down a couple of those parts along the way!) Other accounts claim that he was a victim of homophobia, he being a lifelong bachelor who was rarely seen on dates whether for publicity or otherwise. For his part, he staunchly denied this. A devout Catholic, he stated that he would never even portray a homosexual (though there have been a lot of homosexuals who wouldn’t play one!)


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#49 jaragon

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Posted 16 February 2017 - 08:11 PM

This was probably discussed before. I have often wondered about Grant Williams, who never married or had relationships with women that were particularly well documented. The Incredible Shrinking Man is one of my personal favorites of the stressed-out fifties, the decade that also begot Invasion of the Body Snatchers (i.e. everybody becoming the same under McCarthyism, just not Kevin McCarthy) and Psycho, filmed at the close of the decade as an exclamation point to the Eisenhower Era's sexual suppression and forever linked in my mind by John Gavin asking "Why was he dressed like... that?".

 

d62f0dd4e37fbeb179197c40eeff5195.jpg

 

Here he is being all affectionate with wifie dear, only SHE is playing hard-to-get: http://www.tcm.com/m...ley-Wench-.html

Was he gay?  His male beauty is very well used by Jack Arnold in the great " The Incredible Shrinking Man"


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#50 rayban

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Posted 16 February 2017 - 07:16 PM

I gotta say Gardner McKay is pretty cute. Not Troy Donahue cute, but still....

 

fcb5d3e3cbf12e5e48ce65bc3b264c73.jpg

What a shame, he was not interested in a film career.


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"I was born the day she kissed me.  I died the day she left me.  I lived a few weeks while she loved me." - Humphrey Bogart in "In A Lonely Place".


#51 jinsinna13

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Posted 16 February 2017 - 05:24 PM

some of the men here are way too pretty for me, or too young.

 

This is more my style.

 

https://www.pinteres...52131216823144/

 

I added some modern stars on purpose. I am at the age where I find both classic stars (Gregory Peck, Burt Lancaster) and modern stars (Chris Hemsworth, Matt Bomer) attractive. A classic film fan can also like NCIS: Los Angeles. Just sayin'.


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"Believe in what your heart is saying. Hear the melody that's playing. There's no time to waste. There's so much to celebrate. Believe in what you feel inside. And give your dreams the wings to fly. You have everything you need. If you just believe."  Josh Groban- "Believe"


#52 jinsinna13

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Posted 16 February 2017 - 05:21 PM

I gotta say Gardner McKay is pretty cute. Not Troy Donahue cute, but still....

 

fcb5d3e3cbf12e5e48ce65bc3b264c73.jpg


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"Believe in what your heart is saying. Hear the melody that's playing. There's no time to waste. There's so much to celebrate. Believe in what you feel inside. And give your dreams the wings to fly. You have everything you need. If you just believe."  Josh Groban- "Believe"


#53 chandler5710

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Posted 16 February 2017 - 04:18 PM

I did not know he was on Guiding Light. He still looks AWESOME, though!

 

I put Bomer on this thread because, while he is in movies, (Magic Mike, Magic Mike XXL, The Nice Guys), he hasn't made the movie star transition yet. His time to make that transition, though, is short because he'll be 40 in October. Bomer is also one of my favorite actors.

 

I will check out rayban's thread when I have a chance.

 

nose job



#54 chandler5710

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Posted 16 February 2017 - 04:15 PM

some of the men here are way too pretty for me, or too young.

 

This is more my style.

 

https://www.pinteres...52131216823144/



#55 chandler5710

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Posted 16 February 2017 - 04:06 PM

I liked his work in the few films I have seen him in;  E.g.  Bad Day at Black Rock where he held his own in a cast full of great actors.

 

At least he got to work with Liz at a time when she one of the great beauties of Hollywood.  

Very nice man - I interviewed him years ago.


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#56 Jlewis

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Posted 16 February 2017 - 02:31 PM

Gee, rayban. You must have had a rough time getting through the later Mysterious Island since it wasn't just the Ray Harryhausen special effects, but stars Michael Callan, Michael Craig and a post-Bette Davis Gary Merrill (plus two others getting less screen time) all struggling to keep their shirts on during their own life and death adventures. Good thing TWO women showed up so they could maintain their heterosexuality. One was OK milking the goats, but the other had to get frisky with the younger Mike Cee. (I think the actors were all straight off screen, but Kerwin Matthews in The 7th Voyage of Sinbad certainly wasn't although he was pretty convincing kissing Kathryn Grant.)

 

The Incredible Shrinking Man has frequently been discussed as a "gay themed" film, although the reasons are nebulous at best. Although there is nothing wrong with a couple waiting a while before having children, the wife's mention of being married for six years when they are on the boat is odd for 1956 standards of "normality", if not today. Back then, everybody was in such a hurry to pump out the kids right away and they do have a nice enough home to accommodate, so it is not like they are waiting merely to afford them. He also mentions on screen how much more difficult he is on her as a husband as he shrinks smaller in size, perhaps a reflection that he can't succeed sexually with her any more. Yet was this a new problem? She does look frustrated a lot, although he is somewhat affectionate on the boat (just so she will get that beer for him). Although he becomes famous with newspaper photographers prowling outside, he eventually gets lost in the basement and practically invisible like so many forced to stay in the closet. You do need to watch both this and Invasion of the Body Snatchers back to back in order to fully appreciate what the fifties were all about.


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#57 rayban

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Posted 16 February 2017 - 12:38 PM

Not to mention how often his clothes get ripped apart as he shrinks in his most famous role. I just think, if this was sci fi "reality", he would just blanket himself with rags to keep warm but mostly romp around the basement and fight tarantulas nude.

A nude Grant Williams would've been too much to take for us gay guys.


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"I was born the day she kissed me.  I died the day she left me.  I lived a few weeks while she loved me." - Humphrey Bogart in "In A Lonely Place".


#58 Jlewis

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Posted 16 February 2017 - 12:24 PM

Grant Williams was such a beautiful man.

 

I've been collecting private photos of him.

 

And he is never with anybody but himself.

 

And he always looks sensational.

 

He was teaching acting - and he did die young.

 

My favorite film of his is "Susan Slade".

 

He impregnates Connie Stevens - and then dies!

 

How much punishment can one girl take?!

 

Not to mention how often his clothes get ripped apart as he shrinks in his most famous role. I just think, if this was sci fi "reality", he would just blanket himself with rags to keep warm but mostly romp around the basement and fight tarantulas nude.


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#59 rayban

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Posted 16 February 2017 - 12:24 PM

Recently I've been watching episodes of the Mr. Lucky TV series. John Vivyan, who resembles Cary Grant, plays the title role. He didn't go on to have a movie career and after 1970, his television appearances are rare. In one article online, he was supposedly Joan Crawford's date to the 1963 Oscars. But I didn't find any evidence he was married or had children. I'd like to know more about him.

 

screen-shot-2017-02-16-at-8-04-49-am.png

He's one of those TV stars who seems to have cultivated "anonymity".


"I was born the day she kissed me.  I died the day she left me.  I lived a few weeks while she loved me." - Humphrey Bogart in "In A Lonely Place".


#60 Jlewis

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Posted 16 February 2017 - 12:23 PM

Yes, they could have had children that were not public knowledge (illegitimate ones). Or they were "confirmed bachelors."

 

Whenever I hear "confirmed bachelors", which includes James Bond and all of his womanizing, I also think of "old maids". Even in the musical The Music Man, Shirley Jones' librarian gets slightly concerned when the girl she's training piano brings it up.

 

I watched The Lost Patrol yesterday when it aired again. Although the soldiers discussed women, you have to wonder how they got their all important "release" in the Mesopotamian desert circa 1917. (Ditto, the guys with Cousteau in The Silent World and Kon Tiki's crew.) Oh well... they mostly died by gunfire in the movie anyway, including prim and proper Boris Karloff.


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