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Kyle Kersten was a true friend of TCM. One of the first and most active participants of the Message Boards, “Kyle in Hollywood” (aka, hlywdkjk) demonstrated a depth of knowledge and largesse of spirit that made him one of the most popular and respected voices in these forums. This thread is a living memorial to his life and love of movies, which remain with us still.

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The Triumph of Donald Trump


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#41 jamesjazzguitar

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Posted 15 August 2017 - 01:11 PM

Read your posts again.  You have a very strong "aversion" to a lot of groups and it has shown up in other posts for other groups as well.  

I do not support white supremacists and you should know that.  Nor do I "keep company" with white supremacists, but I do know some. Living in the South for 70 years you have to.  Incidentally, some of the most ardent white supremacists I know are fairly recent transplants from the North - PA, IL, and others.

 

I assume you have an aversion to yourself and others because your ancestors stole the land you live on from somebody else - and you didn't return it?

 

Not sure what "Larry was spot on" about.

I may very well be "loony" about this subject (whatever that may be), but you and "Larry" are just as loony.

 

Yes,  I have an 'aversion' to 'groups' that have committed war crimes and \ or that have attacked my country.    E.g.  Nazis.   I don't need to be Jewish to have an aversion to what the Nazis did to the Jewish people during the 30s and 40s or the many war crimes committed by the Japanese, their treatment of Korean women, etc...     I have an aversion to group that attack gays and try to deny them equal rights.     I have an aversion to racist and white supremacists.  

 

This reminds me of a Get Smart joke;  someone was going to a meeting and Max asked about the meeting.  The meeting was to discuss hate-groups.   The guy said something like:  I belong to a group that hates hate!  Classic Mel Brook and Buck Henry.

 

As for my comment on the company you keep;  when it comes to honoring the Confederacy,  I assume many,  if not a majority are white supremacists (or learn that way).     So while you're not one of them,   on this issue isn't your POV aligned with theirs?

 

(my Larry comment related to his related reply to you that I felt was well written,  but I apologize to both of you for bring him into this especially when he asked to be left out).



#42 NipkowDisc

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Posted 15 August 2017 - 08:19 AM

well, trump said what they all wanted him to say and it means nothing. all they do is bellyache about how he shoulda said it 2 days before and question his sincerity.
it justs shows what he is up against, a msm wracked with guilt over not doing their part to elect hillary clinton. what could be more clear now?
:D

"okay, so we're moving right along, folks" -al pacino, dog day afternoon


#43 NipkowDisc

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Posted 15 August 2017 - 08:19 AM

 

NBC Nightly News‏Verified account @NBCNightlyNews 47m47 minutes ago

 
 

JUST IN: Texas A&M cancels white nationalist rally on 9/11 "because of concerns about the safety" of students, faculty, staff and public.

 
 

 

now lets see 'em cancel a BLM rally without being subjected to accusations of racism. :lol:


"okay, so we're moving right along, folks" -al pacino, dog day afternoon


#44 Vautrin

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Posted 14 August 2017 - 10:47 PM

Note that I only single out Obama here because during the Bill Clinton and GWB terms there was still enough time for diplomacy to work.    But by Obama's second term it was very clear diplomacy wasn't going to work so the USA should have either gone to war to take out Kim or called off the dogs and accepted a nuclear N.K.  

 

Oh similar to the Syria 'red-line' the Obama admin said all options were on the table (when they were not it appears).     But I guess one could say the Obama admin wasn't trying to bluff the American people but instead Kim and Assad.    Either way,  those two were better poker players than Obama.

Well, diplomacy is often at work, however quixotic. Even now the U.S. and

NK have a back channel going while the two leaders breathe fire at one

another. This might support to some degree the idea that part of the

reason Trump is doing so is to bump up his base. I think it was stupid to

announce the red line in Syria and then ignore it, even though the aim

of having Assad get rid of his chemical weapons was accomplished. But

that was certainly better than going ahead with it. 


Curse Sir Walter Raleigh, he was such a stupid get.


#45 LawrenceA

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Posted 14 August 2017 - 10:20 PM

Not sure what "Larry was spot on" about.

I may very well be "loony" about this subject (whatever that may be), but you and "Larry" are just as loony.

 

Why am I being dragged into this? And what's with you insulting me? I recall posting issues I had with what you posted, not insulting you as a person, which you have now done to me on a couple of occasions today. 

 

Give it a rest. 



#46 TheCid

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Posted 14 August 2017 - 09:43 PM

That is what you got out of my post?    Wow,  you're really loony when it comes to this topic.    Larry was spot on! 

 

Anyhow one is defined by the company they keep and for you that company is white supremacist. 

Read your posts again.  You have a very strong "aversion" to a lot of groups and it has shown up in other posts for other groups as well.  

I do not support white supremacists and you should know that.  Nor do I "keep company" with white supremacists, but I do know some. Living in the South for 70 years you have to.  Incidentally, some of the most ardent white supremacists I know are fairly recent transplants from the North - PA, IL, and others.

 

I assume you have an aversion to yourself and others because your ancestors stole the land you live on from somebody else - and you didn't return it?

 

Not sure what "Larry was spot on" about.

I may very well be "loony" about this subject (whatever that may be), but you and "Larry" are just as loony.



#47 jamesjazzguitar

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Posted 14 August 2017 - 09:21 PM

It appears you hate a lot of people.  In addition, to having no understanding of history, American or world.

 

That is what you got out of my post?    Wow,  you're really loony when it comes to this topic.    Larry was spot on! 

 

Anyhow one is defined by the company they keep and for you that company is white supremacist. 



#48 jamesjazzguitar

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Posted 14 August 2017 - 09:17 PM

I'm not sure calling off the sanctions would have helped.  With Kim there has to be a point where he gets something rather than losing something.  I'm not sure he is mentally capable of accepting anything less than nuclear weapons. 

Since 1953, NK has refused to end the Korean War and that shows a lot about their willingness to negotiate.

Not saying that war is the answer though.  The real problem is that we have a nut for president and inexperienced, unqualified people in the administration.

 

You misunderstood my posts.   Calling off sanctions was NOT to get N.K. to NOT develop nukes.   

 

The point was that Obama (and most people at this forum it appears),   accepted,  long ago, that N.K. was going to develop nukes and that nothing short of war was going to stop that and both Obama and users here are against the war option (and yes, war is an ugly option so that POV is reasonable). 

 

That being the case calling off sanctions during the Obama years would have helped as it relates to repairing the relationship between N.K. and the USA (as well as the rest of the world).    I.e. there was NO need for sanctions and the other hostile behavior the USA had towards N.K during the Obama years,  IF one accepts that N.K. having nukes would become reality and that diplomacy wouldn't stop this from occurring.

 

AGAIN;  If the 'mission' was to prevent N.K. from developing nukes,  that failure is all on the prior administrations and NOT the Trump admin since Trump hasn't been in office long enough to accomplish the past 20 years have failed to do.    Trump is a moron but I don't see how it is fair or reasonable to blame the them for N.K. developing nukes (as well as intercontinental ballistic missiles).

 

But I do agree with most users here;  Now that N.K. has nukes and the necessary missiles the USA should just move on and drop the entire ball of wax.   E.g. continuing sanctions is a joke (it will NOT lead to N.K. giving up nukes),  and going to war would be catastrophic for the entire Asian continent.



#49 TheCid

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Posted 14 August 2017 - 09:04 PM

I assume that if there had been a general vote of the people of Charlottesville a majority would have voted to remove the monuments.    But if NOT those elected officials can be voted out of office and pro-monument politicians put in their place.   That is democracy.

 

As for those that FEEL they have been discriminated against and their heritage and their ancestors are being maligned;  Well that is the main issue here.    I openly state that I trash their heritage and their ancestors (for those that FEEL their heritage is linked to the Confederacy).

 

I explained this before:  My mom is Japanese.  My uncles fought against the USA and killed Americans.   In addition how the Japanese treated prisoners as well as Korean women, was appalling. 

 

Therefore I support those that 'trash' my ancestors because my ancestors were on the wrong side of history.   My mom doesn't like this and still gets angry about it (as well as being in denial about the Japanese many war crimes and crimes against humanity).  Too bad for her.   I said the same thing to some of my wife's Italian relative that were Hitler supporters.

 

Of course a civil war isn't the same as a war between nations,  but I believe my overall point is solid;   I'm ok with trashing all those that were on the wrong side of history,  ancestors or not.     Instead of one getting defensive about one's heritage and ancestors I recommend one openly acknowledge their faults to gain some sense of closure. 

It appears you hate a lot of people.  In addition, to having no understanding of history, American or world.



#50 TheCid

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Posted 14 August 2017 - 09:00 PM

I agree with what you say here but if that was Obama's POV I wish he had called off the sanctions and worked to restored relations with N.K. during his term.   But I guess he believe Clinton would do that and not that the US would have an unstable moron as President in Trump.   (but Clinton is a hawk so she might have been just as aggressive as Trump expect with more restrained language).  

I'm not sure calling off the sanctions would have helped.  With Kim there has to be a point where he gets something rather than losing something.  I'm not sure he is mentally capable of accepting anything less than nuclear weapons. 

Since 1953, NK has refused to end the Korean War and that shows a lot about their willingness to negotiate.

Not saying that war is the answer though.  The real problem is that we have a nut for president and inexperienced, unqualified people in the administration.



#51 Princess of Tap

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Posted 14 August 2017 - 07:01 PM

What the heck is Texas A&M doing hosting white nationalist rally in the first place?!?



Forget it Jake, It's Texas.

#52 ChristineHoard

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Posted 14 August 2017 - 06:59 PM

 

NBC Nightly News‏Verified account @NBCNightlyNews 47m47 minutes ago

 
 

JUST IN: Texas A&M cancels white nationalist rally on 9/11 "because of concerns about the safety" of students, faculty, staff and public.

 
 

 

 

What the heck is Texas A&M doing hosting white nationalist rally in the first place?!?



#53 mr6666

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Posted 14 August 2017 - 06:37 PM

NBC Nightly NewsVerified account @NBCNightlyNews 47m47 minutes ago

 
 

JUST IN: Texas A&M cancels white nationalist rally on 9/11 "because of concerns about the safety" of students, faculty, staff and public.

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

"A small elephant is not a rabbit."


#54 jamesjazzguitar

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Posted 14 August 2017 - 06:12 PM

The city of Charlottesville is a very progressive town. It voted for Hillary Clinton by a margin of 79.68% for Clinton, 13.17% for Trump. That is an amazing majority for a Virginia city. (Much more narrowly, Bernie Sanders beat Hillary Clinton in the Democratic Primary in Charlottesville, 53%/46%.)

 

Trump's delayed response in condemning the K K K and Neo-Nazis is particularly heinous, because he never hesitates to make remarks in the heat of the moment. So his real heart is in his Saturday remarks; not those he made today.

 

Charlottesville sounds like the Austin of the deep south.



#55 Swithin

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Posted 14 August 2017 - 06:08 PM

The city of Charlottesville is a very progressive town. It voted for Hillary Clinton by a margin of 79.68% for Clinton, 13.17% for Trump. That is an amazing majority for a Virginia city. (Much more narrowly, Bernie Sanders beat Hillary Clinton in the Democratic Primary in Charlottesville, 53%/46%.)

 

Trump's delayed response in condemning the K K K and Neo-Nazis is particularly heinous, because he never hesitates to make remarks in the heat of the moment. So his real heart is in his Saturday remarks; not those he made today.


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#56 jamesjazzguitar

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Posted 14 August 2017 - 05:58 PM

Trump finally comes out against the white supremacists, neo-nazis, K-K-K, etc. in Charlottesville.  Sets the Sessions Justice Dept on them.

 

Apparently he is also considering a pardon for Joe Arapaio. 

 

Until Trump fires Bannon it is hard for me to accept his sincerity.    Man is Trump a clown when it comes to P.R.     Why would he mention that he might pardon Arapaio,  a guy that many claim is a bigot,  on the same day he finally denounces white supremacists.  :blink:


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#57 jamesjazzguitar

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Posted 14 August 2017 - 05:37 PM

Let's be clear about one thing at least.  The neo-nazis, K-K-K, white supremacists, etc. that showed up in Charlottesville had nothing to do with statues, memorials, the Confederacy or anything else.  They were their to get news coverage, attention and to stir up trouble.  The whole statue issue was a subterfuge.  They have "stolen" the flags of the Confederacy just as they stole the Cross of Christ.

 

But as I said before, what would have been the result if the people of Charlottesville had voted on the statue issue?  Sometimes elected officials are politicians first and public servants second.

 

Need to recognize that this is why Trump got elected.  While he campaigned on the economy, he also reached out to a large number of people who feel they have been discriminated against and their heritage has been torn down and trashed.

I know a lot of people who are not members of any of the groups that showed up in Charlottesville nor do they support them.  However, they do feel their heritage and their ancestors are being maligned.  So, they vote for Trump.

 

I assume that if there had been a general vote of the people of Charlottesville a majority would have voted to remove the monuments.    But if NOT those elected officials can be voted out of office and pro-monument politicians put in their place.   That is democracy.

 

As for those that FEEL they have been discriminated against and their heritage and their ancestors are being maligned;  Well that is the main issue here.    I openly state that I trash their heritage and their ancestors (for those that FEEL their heritage is linked to the Confederacy).

 

I explained this before:  My mom is Japanese.  My uncles fought against the USA and killed Americans.   In addition how the Japanese treated prisoners as well as Korean women, was appalling. 

 

Therefore I support those that 'trash' my ancestors because my ancestors were on the wrong side of history.   My mom doesn't like this and still gets angry about it (as well as being in denial about the Japanese many war crimes and crimes against humanity).  Too bad for her.   I said the same thing to some of my wife's Italian relative that were Hitler supporters.

 

Of course a civil war isn't the same as a war between nations,  but I believe my overall point is solid;   I'm ok with trashing all those that were on the wrong side of history,  ancestors or not.     Instead of one getting defensive about one's heritage and ancestors I recommend one openly acknowledge their faults to gain some sense of closure. 


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#58 TheCid

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Posted 14 August 2017 - 05:34 PM

Trump finally comes out against the white supremacists, neo-nazis, K-K-K, etc. in Charlottesville.  Sets the Sessions Justice Dept on them.

 

Apparently he is also considering a pardon for Joe Arapaio. 



#59 TheCid

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Posted 14 August 2017 - 04:56 PM

I believe most people here understand your POV as it relates to confederate monuments and as Larry clearly said,  it is from a historical POV and the fact Presidents like Eisenhower and Ford etc.  forgave confederate generals and leaders deeming them NOT to be traitors and that supporting slavery was a historical practice by many great Americans patriots like Jefferson etc..  

 

These discussions are NOT what is tearing the country apart.   What is are people that can't accept the political decisions being made and believing the use of violence is a justified means to an end,  as well as use of violence to suppress what the courts have determined is free-speech.     BUT this is occurring from both the radical left and radical right. 

Let's be clear about one thing at least.  The neo-nazis, K-K-K, white supremacists, etc. that showed up in Charlottesville had nothing to do with statues, memorials, the Confederacy or anything else.  They were their to get news coverage, attention and to stir up trouble.  The whole statue issue was a subterfuge.  They have "stolen" the flags of the Confederacy just as they stole the Cross of Christ.

 

But as I said before, what would have been the result if the people of Charlottesville had voted on the statue issue?  Sometimes elected officials are politicians first and public servants second.

 

Need to recognize that this is why Trump got elected.  While he campaigned on the economy, he also reached out to a large number of people who feel they have been discriminated against and their heritage has been torn down and trashed.

I know a lot of people who are not members of any of the groups that showed up in Charlottesville nor do they support them.  However, they do feel their heritage and their ancestors are being maligned.  So, they vote for Trump.



#60 jamesjazzguitar

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Posted 14 August 2017 - 04:53 PM

Every president says all options are on the table, even if it's unlikely

they all are. I don't recall all the details of Obama's NK policy, but

I doubt war was considered, unless NK struck first. NK has flummoxed

a number of presidents, including Obama. Unless some deal can be

worked out, we will likely have to live with a nuclear armed NK, just

as we did with a nuclear armed U.S.S.R.

 

Note that I only single out Obama here because during the Bill Clinton and GWB terms there was still enough time for diplomacy to work.    But by Obama's second term it was very clear diplomacy wasn't going to work so the USA should have either gone to war to take out Kim or called off the dogs and accepted a nuclear N.K.  

 

Oh similar to the Syria 'red-line' the Obama admin said all options were on the table (when they were not it appears).     But I guess one could say the Obama admin wasn't trying to bluff the American people but instead Kim and Assad.    Either way,  those two were better poker players than Obama.






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