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Future of Democratic Party?

What do Democrats need to do.

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440 replies to this topic

#301 Hibi

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Posted 01 December 2016 - 06:33 PM

A very unscientific poll--

At my gym only, the old white men watch Fox. And when I say old, I don't mean anything younger than 75. Some come in on walkers to exercise.

 

 

LOL. Like I said.........



#302 Princess of Tap

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Posted 01 December 2016 - 05:24 PM

The Democratic Party will survive and return. They were writing off the GOP years ago. It's still around. The DUMPster will drag down the GOP and the Dems will rise again. Old white men are dying off............


A very unscientific poll--

At my gym only, the old white men watch Fox. And when I say old, I don't mean anything younger than 75. Some come in on walkers to exercise.

#303 Hibi

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Posted 01 December 2016 - 05:20 PM

The Democratic Party will survive and return. They were writing off the GOP years ago. It's still around. The DUMPster will drag down the GOP and the Dems will rise again. Old white men are dying off............



#304 BelleLeGrand1

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Posted 01 December 2016 - 04:41 PM

So far, I've only read the most recent post at this blog, which was suggested to me by my spouse today:

 

https://seeyouin2020...o-lose-and.html

 

Democrats Have Nothing To Lose And Everything To Gain By Leaving Their Party

 

"As I elaborated on in a previous article, the approach of trying to reform the Democratic Party is not as easy as its advocates prefer to admit. What has become especially apparent this year with the blatant efforts from Democratic leaders to undermine Bernie Sanders' campaign is that the neoliberal wing of the party has many devices in place to protect its organization from reform. And even as a great deal of progressive activists aim to change it, though I don't doubt they'll make some progress, given the change-resistance nature of the Democratic Party, there's little chance that it will be sufficiently reformed in time for the extremely important 2020 election.

And that obstacle to reforming the party may well prove to be the final nail in its coffin. After forty years of increased economic exploitation, the public's patience for neoliberalism has grown very thin, and unless major changes soon occur within the Democratic Party, it will doubtless become diminished to near irrelevance. Even Robert Reich, who is currently working to reform the party, has written that if Democrats don't manage to remake themselves into something capable of systemic change, they will "be supplanted by another organization."

 

I'm looking forward to checking out some of the other pieces posted here, if this is an example of the type of thoughtful writing to expect. 



#305 Hibi

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Posted 01 December 2016 - 04:23 PM

The Dems need a new leadership image.  She can use her toughness, experience and fund raising ability more behind the scenes.

 

 

No guarantee the new leadership (forget her rival's name) would be any better. Also read he's getting ready to run for governor here, so question his motives........



#306 TheCid

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Posted 01 December 2016 - 11:07 AM

Claiming that voters are just ignorant and brainwash as well as deplorable is a key reason why the Dems have lost so much power, at all levels of government since 2010.

 

The Dems need to run away from that elitist strategy.

Could you expand on your definition of elitist strategy?  To me, the Warren/Sanders/liberal wing is also very elitist.


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#307 TheCid

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Posted 01 December 2016 - 11:04 AM

I never said you had to tell them that.  But it is a fact that the rise in the right wing attitude and the anti immigrant bias is due to brainwashing.  There may be better words for it such as 'conditioning'  but it is a trained response to the hammering home of the right wing ideology.  And they do a great job of it.  The GOP boasts about destroying unions and still manage to court the working class for votes.  So when I say brainwashed I mean condition the masses to vote for things that are against their own best interests.  Trump understands conditioning of his base.  Hate and Fear were great motivators for him.   Obviously those methods will not work for the democrats and you are right, telling people that they are being brainwashed will just insult them and make them turn away.  They may be lost for all time anyway - a few right here are.  But brainwashed they are!  Young people are drawn to social conscience issues.  The dems need to do a better job of getting out their own message.  And they must stop apologizing for it.

I have long believed that the GOP has some of the best minds when it comes to political advertising.  Who can disagree that pro-life sounds so much better than pro-choice?  There are many other catch phrases they have created over the years that by themselves defeated Democrats.  The Dems have got to do a better job at this type activity and Twitter proves it. 

Been watching Mad Men on AMC On Demand and the Dems really need a Don Draper.

I remember in the 70's and 80's all the people I knew who were "drawn to social conscience issues" and left of center if not outright liberal philosophies.  80% of them vote Republican and voted for Trump.

They need a better message and a better delivery system.  That's why they need new, younger leadership.



#308 TheCid

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Posted 01 December 2016 - 10:54 AM

I dont see why they should throw her out just because the Dems lost. She's tough and experienced.

The Dems need a new leadership image.  She can use her toughness, experience and fund raising ability more behind the scenes.


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#309 TheCid

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Posted 01 December 2016 - 10:52 AM

They haven't been delivering the message.  Years of right wing brainwashing and fear mongering has done a number on Americans.  You need to tackle that head on.  Not run away from it.

I agree wtih that.  However, there are large parts of the "message" itself that are not acceptable to the vast majority of people who actually vote and run for office.

The Dems. need a better delivery and a better message.



#310 Bogie56

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Posted 01 December 2016 - 12:52 AM

Claiming that voters are just ignorant and brainwash as well as deplorable is a key reason why the Dems have lost so much power, at all levels of government since 2010.

 

The Dems need to run away from that elitist strategy.

 

I never said you had to tell them that.  But it is a fact that the rise in the right wing attitude and the anti immigrant bias is due to brainwashing.  There may be better words for it such as 'conditioning'  but it is a trained response to the hammering home of the right wing ideology.  And they do a great job of it.  The GOP boasts about destroying unions and still manage to court the working class for votes.  So when I say brainwashed I mean condition the masses to vote for things that are against their own best interests.  Trump understands conditioning of his base.  Hate and Fear were great motivators for him.   Obviously those methods will not work for the democrats and you are right, telling people that they are being brainwashed will just insult them and make them turn away.  They may be lost for all time anyway - a few right here are.  But brainwashed they are!  Young people are drawn to social conscience issues.  The dems need to do a better job of getting out their own message.  And they must stop apologizing for it.


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#311 NipkowDisc

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Posted 30 November 2016 - 10:51 PM

Yep. They might as well have been saying they aren't one of us anymore.

yeah, why would people vote for those who malign them? :huh:


"okay, so we're moving right along, folks" -al pacino, dog day afternoon


#312 darkblue

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Posted 30 November 2016 - 08:46 PM

Claiming that voters are just ignorant and brainwashed as well as deplorable is a key reason why the Dems have lost so much power, at all levels of government since 2010.

 

The Dems need to run away from that elitist strategy.

 

Yep. They might as well have been saying they aren't one of us anymore.


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#313 jamesjazzguitar

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Posted 30 November 2016 - 08:40 PM

They haven't been delivering the message.  Years of right wing brainwashing and fear mongering has done a number on Americans.  You need to tackle that head on.  Not run away from it.

 

Claiming that voters are just ignorant and brainwash as well as deplorable is a key reason why the Dems have lost so much power, at all levels of government since 2010.

 

The Dems need to run away from that elitist strategy.


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#314 Hibi

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Posted 30 November 2016 - 05:27 PM

Pelosi got 68% of the vote to continue as minority leader in House. Vote was 134 to 63. This is worse than in 2010 when Democrats lost 63 seats and control of the House under Pelosi. Vote then was 150 to 43. However, the continuation of the Very Old Guard in leadership positions does not bode well for the 2018 elections nor for any real hope of progress during the next two years.

 

I dont see why they should throw her out just because the Dems lost. She's tough and experienced.



#315 Bogie56

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Posted 30 November 2016 - 04:30 PM

Who do you think put Trump in the White House, McConnel as Majority Leader of the Senate and Ryan as Speaker of the House?  Who do you think elected over 30 GOP governors and gave control of most state legislatures to the GOP?  

The Dems, media and pollsters mistake was to think "that old disaffected white vote has one foot in the grave."  Maybe so, but it sure kicked hell out of the Democrats since 2010.

There may well be a time when the millenials or whoever is more leftist exercises more power, but not anytime soon.  They have displayed very little ability to influence elections and government in the US, except in a few states.  Even some of the most "liberal" states are becoming more conservative - the ones Trump won that he was supposed to lose and that have Republican governors.

Remember also, that people tend to become more centrist or conservative as they get older.  Not all, but a lot.

And they better get real damn active at the county and state level if they expect to do anything - and real damn fast.

 

They haven't been delivering the message.  Years of right wing brainwashing and fear mongering has done a number on Americans.  You need to tackle that head on.  Not run away from it.


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#316 TheCid

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Posted 30 November 2016 - 03:40 PM

As far as my county/part of the state, which is the only place I feel qualified to guess at with any certainty, I can't see any way anyone with a "D" next to their name can win any state or Representative post. But my area has seen a lot of growth in business and jobs in the past decade, so there isn't a big push to change things, except in the perceived "swamp" of D.C.

The GOP incumbents who were challenged by Dems in my area received vote totals above 70% - higher than ever before.  I'm sure a lot of that was from Trump voters, but still the only real election here is the primaries.

There are no Dems in the legislature from my end of state and very,very, very few at county level.

It's amazing they want to drain the swamp, but they keep sending the same people back.  Of course, Trump has gone to the swamp for his cabinet positions.



#317 TheCid

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Posted 30 November 2016 - 03:31 PM

McGovern?  Clinton?  Times are a changing'  Time to get with it.  That old disaffected white vote has one foot in the grave.  Time to get ahead of the curve.

Who do you think put Trump in the White House, McConnel as Majority Leader of the Senate and Ryan as Speaker of the House?  Who do you think elected over 30 GOP governors and gave control of most state legislatures to the GOP?  

The Dems, media and pollsters mistake was to think "that old disaffected white vote has one foot in the grave."  Maybe so, but it sure kicked hell out of the Democrats since 2010.

There may well be a time when the millenials or whoever is more leftist exercises more power, but not anytime soon.  They have displayed very little ability to influence elections and government in the US, except in a few states.  Even some of the most "liberal" states are becoming more conservative - the ones Trump won that he was supposed to lose and that have Republican governors.

Remember also, that people tend to become more centrist or conservative as they get older.  Not all, but a lot.

And they better get real damn active at the county and state level if they expect to do anything - and real damn fast.


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#318 darkblue

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Posted 30 November 2016 - 03:30 PM

I wouldn't be so certain that a centrist movement from the Dems is the answer. 

 

It's not. You're right that moving to the left is the only way for the Democrats to be a worthwhile Party going forward.

 

As Bogie said in the post after yours, it's a new day.

 

A new generation is becoming more and more powerful (in terms of voting power) than the old "hide under your bed because of the red scare" generation that is passing away.

 

We have members here who keep insisting that people will always vote the same way they've always voted during their particular lifetimes. But that's just old dogs not being able to learn anymore.

 

Socialism was a bad word for a long time.

 

But for the millennials, it isn't. It's a good word now, and the old guard can't seem to accept that - but they can grouse about it in their retirement chairs all they like, it won't matter.


I may live badly but at least I don't have to work to do it.


#319 LawrenceA

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Posted 30 November 2016 - 01:51 PM

But the Dems have been getting killed at the state level as well as Congress since the 2010 election.     What type of candidates the Dems should run in those elections?    I have no clue.   

 

As far as my county/part of the state, which is the only place I feel qualified to guess at with any certainty, I can't see any way anyone with a "D" next to their name can win any state or Representative post. But my area has seen a lot of growth in business and jobs in the past decade, so there isn't a big push to change things, except in the perceived "swamp" of D.C.



#320 jamesjazzguitar

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Posted 30 November 2016 - 01:01 PM

I wouldn't be so certain that a centrist movement from the Dems is the answer. A large portion, if not the majority, of Trump voters said that they voted for him not for centrist views or conservatives views, but that he was an "outsider" who would "upset the system". I think a leftist pol who can drive that same enthusiasm for change from the status quo would do well. Just look at how well Sanders did compared to what the pundits all said. Remember, nearly every pundit on TV and in print, and every poster on here, said that there was no chance that Trump would win. And he did. So the old rules don't necessarily apply anymore. Something like 46-48% of voters stayed home on election day. Maybe a leftist, populist message could motivate more to vote. Especially if Trump's administration doesn't show much progress in the next two years towards improving the lot of the average worker.

 

Yes,  how much actual change in policy voters wanted is hard to discern.   There is a vast difference between the run for President,  the US Congress and the state level.    E.g.  Clinton just barely lost and of course got more popular votes so from that POV the Dems don't have to change much to win the Presidency in 2020 (one could say just run a better candidate).

 

But the Dems have been getting killed at the state level as well as Congress since the 2010 election.     What type of candidates the Dems should run in those elections?    I have no clue.   


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