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Future of Democratic Party?

What do Democrats need to do.

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#301 jamesjazzguitar

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Posted 22 November 2016 - 02:15 PM

She may have been a poor candidate with a lot of baggage but she would have eked out a win if not for Comey.  Trump was in self-destruct mode until that gave him oxygen.  Clinton did not lose by much.  She was 20 points ahead before Comey - not 3 or 4.  I think a lot of people said 'the hell with it' and came in for Trump at the last minute because of all the Clinton negativity and Trump's reinvigorated campaign in the last week.

 

Sorry but I just don't agree with you take on why Clinton lost.  

 

First as Cid pointed out polling data was flawed because Trump supporters didn't 'play along' with the pollsters and \ or the pollsters sample groups didn't represent the make up of those that acutally ended up voting. 

 

Second:  Low voter turnout by those that voted for Obama in 2008 and\or 2012;    I find it hard to believe that Comey letter had any significant impact on this group and was a leading indicator as to why they decided to NOT vote.

 

Third:  Voters that were NOT pro Trump or Clinton,  but ended up voting for Trump:   As Clinton herself said,  most voters had made up their mind prior to the letter as it relates to if the e-mails impacted their view of Clinton or NOT.    In addition if these voters were aware of the letter, and planning on voting for Clinton before the letter and it influenced them to NOT vote for her, they would have also been aware of the Comey statement that it was much ado about nothing, and this would have likely moved them back to voting for Clinton.

 

Yes, it is very possible that:  ",,,a lot of people said 'the hell with it' and came in for Trump at the last minute because of all the Clinton negativity and Trump's reinvigorated campaign in the last week".

 

But there was a lot of Clinton negativity way prior to that letter (even by the so called liberal media as well as by Sanders due to the behavior of the DNC and all the money she got from the 1%).   

 

I'm not saying the letter wasn't a factor at all but I would rate it low on the list of reasons why Clinton lost.


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#302 HIGHWAY

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Posted 22 November 2016 - 01:26 PM

Agree. By the time the FBI said they didnt find anything it was too late. And probably a lot of people thought it was another cover up....

450436516-director-james-comey-testifies


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#303 Hibi

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Posted 22 November 2016 - 01:01 PM

She may have been a poor candidate with a lot of baggage but she would have eked out a win if not for Comey.  Trump was in self-destruct mode until that gave him oxygen.  Clinton did not lose by much.  She was 20 points ahead before Comey - not 3 or 4.  I think a lot of people said 'the hell with it' and came in for Trump at the last minute because of all the Clinton negativity and Trump's reinvigorated campaign in the last week.

 

Agree. By the time the FBI said they didnt find anything it was too late. And probably a lot of people thought it was another cover up....



#304 Bogie56

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Posted 22 November 2016 - 12:58 PM

Still though, she probably would have lost.  She was way ahead up until the votes were actually counted.  There were a lot of people out there who were for Trump who never got included in polling, historic or other data.

Clinton was a poor candidate who ran a poor campaign.  Any other Democrat (except Sanders) probably would have won.

 

She may have been a poor candidate with a lot of baggage but she would have eked out a win if not for Comey.  Trump was in self-destruct mode until that gave him oxygen.  Clinton did not lose by much.  She was 20 points ahead before Comey - not 3 or 4.  I think a lot of people said 'the hell with it' and came in for Trump at the last minute because of all the Clinton negativity and Trump's reinvigorated campaign in the last week.



#305 Hibi

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Posted 22 November 2016 - 12:54 PM

the-fbi-reopened-my-investigation-what-y

 

 

And funny there was nothing there.........



#306 Hibi

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Posted 22 November 2016 - 12:53 PM

Still though, she probably would have lost.  She was way ahead up until the votes were actually counted.  There were a lot of people out there who were for Trump who never got included in polling, historic or other data.

Clinton was a poor candidate who ran a poor campaign.  Any other Democrat (except Sanders) probably would have won.

 

 

We'll never really know. I dont think she ran a poor campaign. She just kept getting derailed.  D-MP got all the coverage



#307 TheCid

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Posted 22 November 2016 - 12:48 PM

Yep, Hillary was way ahead until Comey decided to stick his neck in.........

Still though, she probably would have lost.  She was way ahead up until the votes were actually counted.  There were a lot of people out there who were for Trump who never got included in polling, historic or other data.

Clinton was a poor candidate who ran a poor campaign.  Any other Democrat (except Sanders) probably would have won.


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#308 HIGHWAY

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Posted 22 November 2016 - 12:44 PM

Yep, Hillary was way ahead until Comey decided to stick his neck in.........

the-fbi-reopened-my-investigation-what-y



#309 jamesjazzguitar

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Posted 22 November 2016 - 12:27 PM

Reasonable people voted for Clinton.  Obama's hope and change was more believable than: I have a plan and Only I can fix it.

Perhaps if Obama and the Dems had not gotten into the ACA right off the bat and worked on some of the other changes, they would not have lost control in 2010.  After 2010, hope and change was dead.

 

Regardless, as you showed in your breakdown of who controls what, the future is bleak for the Dems.  It will get worse with new Congress and Supreme Court and Trump's cabinet supporting voter suppression by states.

 

Best hope for Dems is that Trump and his appointees will screw things up so badly, the core base will just not vote (as many did before Trump).  AND the Dems will get organized, return to the more moderate, left of center position and reach out to the groups they left behind.

 

While from a political POV related to the Dems you and I agree with  'Best hope for Dems is that Trump and his appointees will screw things up so badly";   I assume as Americans we really don't wish for things to get really bad just so the Dems can regain political power.

 

From day one of Obama taking office the GOP made it their mission to try to ensure things went badly just to ensure Obama was a one term President.     These clowns even had the gall to call themselves the true Americans.

 

I want the Dems to take a different course and for the nation to advance and avoid disasters, and in doing so the Dems are rewarded in 2018 and 2020.   But of course that would take an informed electorate.


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#310 Hibi

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Posted 22 November 2016 - 11:40 AM

They said the Republicans would never get back in due to shifting demographics.  It will all boil down to having a dynamic candidate that is not encumbered with a ton of baggage.  It was ridiculous to end up losing to that clown, Trump.  It shouldn't have even been close.  That allowed Comey to hand the election to that buffoon.

 

 

Yep, Hillary was way ahead until Comey decided to stick his neck in.........



#311 Hibi

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Posted 22 November 2016 - 11:39 AM

Reasonable people voted for Clinton.  Obama's hope and change was more believable than: I have a plan and Only I can fix it.

Perhaps if Obama and the Dems had not gotten into the ACA right off the bat and worked on some of the other changes, they would not have lost control in 2010.  After 2010, hope and change was dead.

 

Regardless, as you showed in your breakdown of who controls what, the future is bleak for the Dems.  It will get worse with new Congress and Supreme Court and Trump's cabinet supporting voter suppression by states.

 

Best hope for Dems is that Trump and his appointees will screw things up so badly, the core base will just not vote (as many did before Trump).  AND the Dems will get organized, return to the more moderate, left of center position and reach out to the groups they left behind.

 

 

It wont take long for D-MP to screw things up so badly. BELIEVE ME!!! He'll be so unpopular by the end of his first year (if he makes it) he'll have to hide out in D-MP tower........



#312 Bogie56

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Posted 22 November 2016 - 11:31 AM

Reasonable people voted for Clinton.  Obama's hope and change was more believable than: I have a plan and Only I can fix it.

Perhaps if Obama and the Dems had not gotten into the ACA right off the bat and worked on some of the other changes, they would not have lost control in 2010.  After 2010, hope and change was dead.

 

Regardless, as you showed in your breakdown of who controls what, the future is bleak for the Dems.  It will get worse with new Congress and Supreme Court and Trump's cabinet supporting voter suppression by states.

 

Best hope for Dems is that Trump and his appointees will screw things up so badly, the core base will just not vote (as many did before Trump).  AND the Dems will get organized, return to the more moderate, left of center position and reach out to the groups they left behind.

 

They said the Republicans would never get back in due to shifting demographics.  It will all boil down to having a dynamic candidate that is not encumbered with a ton of baggage.  It was ridiculous to end up losing to that clown, Trump.  It shouldn't have even been close.  That allowed Comey to hand the election to that buffoon.



#313 MovieMadness

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Posted 22 November 2016 - 10:11 AM

Yes, the clueless ones were the winners. Keep believing that, and see how far it goes. Meanwhile since the election the Democrats have only gone farther left, doing exactly what everyone expected.


Things are never so bad they can't be made worse.


#314 TheCid

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Posted 22 November 2016 - 09:20 AM

Just like with Obama and his hope and change rhetoric reasonable people don't believe campaign pandering. 

Reasonable people voted for Clinton.  Obama's hope and change was more believable than: I have a plan and Only I can fix it.

Perhaps if Obama and the Dems had not gotten into the ACA right off the bat and worked on some of the other changes, they would not have lost control in 2010.  After 2010, hope and change was dead.

 

Regardless, as you showed in your breakdown of who controls what, the future is bleak for the Dems.  It will get worse with new Congress and Supreme Court and Trump's cabinet supporting voter suppression by states.

 

Best hope for Dems is that Trump and his appointees will screw things up so badly, the core base will just not vote (as many did before Trump).  AND the Dems will get organized, return to the more moderate, left of center position and reach out to the groups they left behind.



#315 Vautrin

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Posted 21 November 2016 - 11:21 PM

I would but it differently;  The Dems will be in fairly good shape IF Trump screws things up OR if certain negative events happen under his so called watch (regardless if they are due to decisions he or his admin have made). 

Sure, if things go really bad under Trump

then they will be in an excellent position.


Curse Sir Walter Raleigh, he was such a stupid get.


#316 Vautrin

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Posted 21 November 2016 - 11:19 PM

Typical wingnut cluelessness.


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Curse Sir Walter Raleigh, he was such a stupid get.


#317 MovieMadness

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Posted 21 November 2016 - 08:11 PM

1.4 million more in the popular vote last I heard.......

 

If we throw out all the dead people who voted, Trump has the lead again.


Things are never so bad they can't be made worse.


#318 jamesjazzguitar

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Posted 21 November 2016 - 07:29 PM

Well, only HE can fix things.  We know this because HE told us so.

 

Just like with Obama and his hope and change rhetoric reasonable people don't believe campaign pandering. 



#319 Bogie56

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Posted 21 November 2016 - 07:27 PM

I would but it differently;  The Dems will be in fairly good shape IF Trump screws things up OR if certain negative events happen under his so called watch (regardless if they are due to decisions he or his admin have made). 

 

Well, only HE can fix things.  We know this because HE told us so.



#320 jamesjazzguitar

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Posted 21 November 2016 - 07:26 PM

They do have some work to do and will have to tough it out for

a few years in D.C., but they're in fairly good shape for the future,

especially is Trump screws things up. GOTV in off years is still

a big problem for Dems. We might have a Dem governor in NC,

if the vote counting ever ends.

 

I would but it differently;  The Dems will be in fairly good shape IF Trump screws things up OR if certain negative events happen under his so called watch (regardless if they are due to decisions he or his admin have made). 






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