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Trump & International politics


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#181 mr6666

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Posted 12 December 2016 - 06:19 PM

Politics Three Decades Of Trump’s Russian Ties Exposed In One Handy Report-
 
 

Donald Trump has been visiting Moscow since 1987, has extensive Russian business ties, and is lying to the American public by denying his active businesses and multi-decade venture to extend the Trump Organization into that country....

 

The “Dworkin Report” accumulates those facts over a twenty-six year period and they directly contradict Donald Trump’s repeated denial of Russian business interests or ties – direct or otherwise – to Vladimir Putin.

 

This weekend, the Trump Transition team named Exxon CEO Rex Tillerson – who completed a $500 billion dollar oil deal with Putin – as the presumptive Secretary of State....

 

http://occupydemocra...alition-report/


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"A small elephant is not a rabbit."


#182 Dargo

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Posted 06 December 2016 - 12:12 AM

Thin-skinned, frail egomaniac elect, Donald Trump has ratcheted up his twitter war against China.  He continues to call China a currency manipulator though that is not the case.  The U.S. is actually the beneficiary of China's currency at the moment.

He hasn't even got started on Iran.  How long before he's tempted to push that nuclear button.  Thanks America.

 

Well then thank GOD he'll have Mike Pence just down the hall to remind him of "what Jesus would do", RIGHT Bogie?!!! ;)

 

LOL


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#183 Bogie56

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Posted 05 December 2016 - 04:30 AM

Thin-skinned, frail egomaniac elect, Donald Trump has ratcheted up his twitter war against China.  He continues to call China a currency manipulator though that is not the case.  The U.S. is actually the beneficiary of China's currency at the moment.

He hasn't even got started on Iran.  How long before he's tempted to push that nuclear button.  Thanks America.


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#184 Princess of Tap

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Posted 04 December 2016 - 09:08 PM

Yep, I agree. However, would not the idea still hold that people inclined toward this sort of mindset primarily lack that "healthy sense of suspicion" I spoke of, and thus are handicapped in their understanding the impossibility of such things happening without some sort of trade-offs(as in your case of higher taxes) with which they must subsequently subject themselves?

In other words, yes, I understand WHAT their mindset is, but I was earlier attempting to offer up a suggested "root cause" for this sort of mindset.

(...perhaps what I'm really touching upon here is MY "mindset" that the "most dangerous types" out there in world have always been the "True Believers", and people who seeming by choice or indoctrination have been conditioned to stop thinking in a "critical manner")


It's simply true that some segments of the American population have been brainwashed for decades by the pr of the exceptional American Dream Machine.

So many of these people have never traveled abroad or have never received higher education-- yet some backward thinking is so prevalent in this country and so reinforced within the 50 states that you can see why we've ended up the way we have today.

People who can't face reality will eventually have reality thrust it in their face, where they'll have to deal with it whether they want to or not.

You Can't blame all this on Madison Avenue - - but there is a certain amount of advertising mind control that has to exist in an advanced capitalistic country to keep it going. That's only part of it, but conformity is really the name of the game in this country. That's what keeps everything going and nobody's going to rock the boat.
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#185 Dargo

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Posted 04 December 2016 - 02:41 PM

I was trying to be simplistic.  Sometimes they do want the truth, but rarely.  For instance, they believe taxes can be reduced without them losing any government "benefits."  They also have very little knowledge of the vast extent of government "benefits" they receive.  They believe new, better schools will be built, roads resurfaced, jobs created, new airports built, a military capable of defeating any enemy with no loss of US lives, crime eliminated with no loss of individual rights, etc.  And ALL without raising taxes or any sacrifices on their part.

This is true from school districts, cities, counties, states to federal government.

 

Yep, I agree. However, would not the idea still hold that people inclined toward this sort of mindset primarily lack that "healthy sense of suspicion" I spoke of, and thus are handicapped in their understanding the impossibility of such things happening without some sort of trade-offs(as in your case of higher taxes) with which they must subsequently subject themselves?

 

In other words, yes, I understand WHAT their mindset is, but I was earlier attempting to offer up a suggested "root cause" for this sort of mindset.

 

(...perhaps what I'm really touching upon here is MY "mindset" that the "most dangerous types" out there in world have always been the "True Believers", and people who seeming by choice or indoctrination have been conditioned to stop thinking in a "critical manner")



#186 TheCid

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Posted 04 December 2016 - 01:56 PM

I'd like to offer a thought about this comment of yours Cid, and which I believe might be a little more "accurate" an observation about this particular social phenomenon.

 

I really don't believe one can say with any sort of circumspection that "people really do not want to know the truth", as the word "truth" implies the thought of an individual "belief system" being "the truth" or an accurate representation of the world or universe.

 

What I believe might be a more objective comment to make about the issue of people "believing" so thoroughly in their opinion and thus primarily seeking out limited facts and the opinions of others with kindred mindsets in support of their opinions is that they have lost or were never taught to possess "a healthy sense of suspicion" about the all the various input with which people are bombarded in this so-called "Information Age", especially. And without possessing that, people, and regardless where they may fall into the political spectrum, will tend to be attracted to people and thoughts which seem at face value to represent some sort of "truth" in their minds.

 

(...or to put it a little more bluntly, THAT'S the freakin' problem with idiots like that woman in that video Jlewis posted down there earlier who said SHE believes "3 million illegal aliens voted out there in California" and that "Obama encouraged it all", and THEN supported her asinine opinion by saying she "heard it on the news"...nope, THAT idiot woman and all those others you saw nodding their heads in agreement are the EPITOME of someone lacking that "healthy sense of suspicion" I just talked about here)

I was trying to be simplistic.  Sometimes they do want the truth, but rarely.  For instance, they believe taxes can be reduced without them losing any government "benefits."  They also have very little knowledge of the vast extent of government "benefits" they receive.  They believe new, better schools will be built, roads resurfaced, jobs created, new airports built, a military capable of defeating any enemy with no loss of US lives, crime eliminated with no loss of individual rights, etc.  And ALL without raising taxes or any sacrifices on their part.

This is true from school districts, cities, counties, states to federal government.


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#187 Dargo

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Posted 04 December 2016 - 01:01 PM

My own experiences in politics and studying it confirms this.  The people really do not want to know the truth; they want to hear lies.  That is why lying politicians get elected and stay in office.

 

 

I'd like to offer a thought about this comment of yours Cid, and which I believe might be a little more "accurate" an observation about this particular social phenomenon.

 

I really don't believe one can say with any sort of circumspection that "people really do not want to know the truth", as the word "truth" implies the thought of an individual "belief system" being "the truth" or an accurate representation of the world or universe.

 

What I believe might be a more objective comment to make about the issue of people "believing" so thoroughly in their opinion and thus primarily seeking out limited facts and the opinions of others with kindred mindsets in support of their opinions is that they have lost or were never taught to possess "a healthy sense of suspicion" about the all the various input with which people are bombarded in this so-called "Information Age", especially. And without possessing that, people, and regardless where they may fall into the political spectrum, will tend to be attracted to people and thoughts which seem at face value to represent some sort of "truth" in their minds.

 

(...or to put it a little more bluntly, THAT'S the freakin' problem with idiots like that woman in that video Jlewis posted down there earlier who said SHE believes "3 million illegal aliens voted out there in California" and that "Obama encouraged it all", and THEN supported her asinine opinion by saying she "heard it on the news"...nope, THAT idiot woman and all those others you saw nodding their heads in agreement are the EPITOME of someone lacking that "healthy sense of suspicion" I just talked about here)


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#188 Jlewis

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Posted 04 December 2016 - 12:12 PM

I'm confused.  What does this have to do with post re: Rachel Maddow?

 

In reference to your earlier quote "She has always had an axe to grind in that period - she strongly dislikes conservatives and the Republican Party."

 

My point was that host Ana on the other network is a lot less subtle than Rachel.

 

It is OK. It was an abstract dose of humor that sometimes hits the mark and sometimes doesn't.

 

If nothing else, it got us all talking about Trump's supporters and their own amusing belief systems. We can bring this back to main topic. What Trump believes internationally reflects what his supporters believe internationally. If there are three million illegal voters in California, just think what all frightening people reside in other parts of the world...

 

My earlier comment about whether or not Trump "served" in the post about South Korea and Japan wasn't intended to be taken quite so literally. In all honesty, I think 80% of what he stated on the campaign trail had little logic behind it anyway and won't be carried through (i.e. his removal of US troops from there).



#189 TheCid

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Posted 04 December 2016 - 11:50 AM

What you call an axe to grind, I call advocacy. She has a point to make and she's going to stress that point and give enough examples to get her message through.

You probably already have your own opinion on the subject or you're against her opinion.

She sees her job as a person who is molding public opinion according to the facts as she has presented them.

And she's very good at what she does.

The fact that she presents herself as an open lesbian makes her advocacy look all the more courageous to me.

So wrong.  I think I used "axe to grind" because it had been used in another post.  Regardless, axe to grind vs. advocacy is semantics.

"You probably already have your own opinion on the subject or you're against her opinion."  Wrong again.  As I have said on other posts re: Maddow, I have learned from her.  Please note where I stated she provides interesting information that other shows don't present.  Have also stated that I used to watch her almost every night.  Also said still watch the opening of her show to see what it is about.  As a member of a water authority board I am particularly pleased that she is primarily the one who brought the Flint water crisis to the attention of the nation and continues to cover it.

My comment, if you read it objectively, is in regards to how she does her show, not the content.  I agree with most, maybe all, of what she says.  It just takes her too long to get to the point.  She also uses a lot of teasers about "coming up" and "only we have this."  Then it comes much later in the program and isn't as earth shaking as I had hoped.  Yes, I know all the "news" channels, including the local ones, do this. 

"The fact that she presents herself as an open lesbian makes her advocacy look all the more courageous to me."  Your use of this statement implies that I don't like her because she is a lesbian.  That is pure BS!!!!!  Incidentally, she does not "present herself as an open lesbian."  She almost never mentions it on her show.  I can't remember her ever bringing it up.  She does speak openly regarding her partner, who happens to be female.  She does not hide it and does participate in LGBT advocacy, but not as part of her show.

Regardless, being a lesbian has nothing to do with her profession or how she does her show .  Or does it to you?  It shouldn't.

By the way, what does "open lesbian mean?"  Or did you mean openly presents herself as a lesbian?

Anyway, don't assume.



#190 TheCid

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Posted 04 December 2016 - 11:33 AM

Sorry to temporarily go off topic on "international" Trumpism and going back to "national" a.k.a. California Trumpism.

 

I can only imagine your opinion of these folks, who lean even further left and have a BIGGER axe to grind. This video is the funniest of the recent crop. Ana has completely gone bonkers over all of the Trump voters. "They want BS to reinforce what they WANT to believe!!!!!"

 

I'm confused.  What does this have to do with post re: Rachel Maddow?



#191 TheCid

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Posted 04 December 2016 - 11:32 AM

Yea,  Cid doesn't like the Maddow show because he is homophobic as well as a conservative.

 

Yea,  that has to be it based on what he posted here.     :blink:

I am assuming that this is sarcasm because it is absolutely NOT true - the homophobic part.  I trend somewhat more conservative on fiscal issues.  But even then it is actually moderate.



#192 TheCid

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Posted 04 December 2016 - 11:23 AM

Nope. They pay a lot of money for it AND supply their own soldiers in addition. In South Korea, every male has to serve so many months or a year or more. You are not forced to serve in the United States unless drafted. Did Trump serve? He wants to take away what both countries already paid for.

There is no draft in US.  Selective Service System still requires males register at age 18 I think.  US not likely to have a draft as there are so many issues associated with it, not the least of which is drafting women.

Trump did not serve, he received deferments while in college and then promptly got a deferment for a bone spur when he graduated.  My understanding is that he could have joined even with the bone spur, but he did not.



#193 TheCid

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Posted 04 December 2016 - 11:20 AM

I think one of the more important points to take from this is that (some) people don't want the facts, or truth.  They just want BS that reinforces what they have already chosen to believe.  Let's face it.  It was the braindead that elected Donald J. Trump.

My own experiences in politics and studying it confirms this.  The people really do not want to know the truth; they want to hear lies.  That is why lying politicians get elected and stay in office.

"We will repeal Obamacare on day one."  Congress already has the legislation written as it was passed by the House 60 times.  BUT, now McConnell, Trump, et. al.  We will save parts of it; may take THREE YEARS to get it replaced.

Oh, and now the phrase is "Repeal and transition."  Whatever the heck that means.



#194 TheCid

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Posted 04 December 2016 - 11:17 AM

Some aren't brain dead, but genuinely hated, HATED Hillary. I never could figure out exactly why even family members of mine hated her that much and considered him sssssoooo much better. She never did anything personally to them. Did any of her email scandal really matter in the long run? How many people were killed under her watch with Benghazi compared to Beirut under Reagan and NYC under Bush II? It was not like she herself didn't care or wasn't upset about it... and she was still willing to stand trial for it. Was it her smug face? Was it the debates when she acted too confident? My guess is that she was too much of The Establishment, while Trump was *thought* to be anti-Establishment (although this was a very foolish thought). According to Michael Moore, many voters just wanted to give the government their middle finger and see what happened.

A lot of people hate Obama because he is African-American and they transferred a lot of that hate to Hillary.  Also, a lot hate her anyway.

 

As for the middle finger, now Trump is giving it back to the people who voted for him.



#195 HIGHWAY

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Posted 04 December 2016 - 10:50 AM

Probably. My whole life is one hallucination after another.

This may help.

 

#1121 icon_share.png scsu1975

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Posted 07 October 2016 - 09:21 PM

Hillary Clinton is the kindest, bravest, warmest, most wonderful human being I've ever known in my life.



#196 Jlewis

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Posted 04 December 2016 - 10:25 AM

Probably. My whole life is one hallucination after another.



#197 HIGHWAY

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Posted 04 December 2016 - 09:22 AM

Some aren't brain dead, but genuinely hated, HATED Hillary. I never could figure out exactly why even family members of mine hated her that much and considered him sssssoooo much better. She never did anything personally to them. Did any of her email scandal really matter in the long run? How many people were killed under her watch with Benghazi compared to Beirut under Reagan and NYC under Bush II? It was not like she herself didn't care or wasn't upset about it... and she was still willing to stand trial for it. Was it her smug face? Was it the debates when she acted too confident? My guess is that she was too much of The Establishment, while Trump was *thought* to be anti-Establishment (although this was a very foolish thought). According to Michael Moore, many voters just wanted to give the government their middle finger and see what happened.

Your not experiencing hallucinations are you?


#198 Jlewis

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Posted 04 December 2016 - 07:24 AM

I think one of the more important points to take from this is that (some) people don't want the facts, or truth.  They just want BS that reinforces what they have already chosen to believe.  Let's face it.  It was the braindead that elected Donald J. Trump.

 

Some aren't brain dead, but genuinely hated, HATED Hillary. I never could figure out exactly why even family members of mine hated her that much and considered him sssssoooo much better. She never did anything personally to them. Did any of her email scandal really matter in the long run? How many people were killed under her watch with Benghazi compared to Beirut under Reagan and NYC under Bush II? It was not like she herself didn't care or wasn't upset about it... and she was still willing to stand trial for it. Was it her smug face? Was it the debates when she acted too confident? My guess is that she was too much of The Establishment, while Trump was *thought* to be anti-Establishment (although this was a very foolish thought). According to Michael Moore, many voters just wanted to give the government their middle finger and see what happened.



#199 Bogie56

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Posted 04 December 2016 - 02:02 AM

Sorry to temporarily go off topic on "international" Trumpism and going back to "national" a.k.a. California Trumpism.

 

I can only imagine your opinion of these folks, who lean even further left and have a BIGGER axe to grind. This video is the funniest of the recent crop. Ana has completely gone bonkers over all of the Trump voters. "They want BS to reinforce what they WANT to believe!!!!!"

 

 

I think one of the more important points to take from this is that (some) people don't want the facts, or truth.  They just want BS that reinforces what they have already chosen to believe.  Let's face it.  It was the braindead that elected Donald J. Trump.


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#200 Vautrin

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Posted 03 December 2016 - 07:23 PM

Then Trump says he is going to get rid of the troops and weapons in South Korea and Japan.

Do you think he has thought this thing through?

Probably not much more than he thinks anything through.

He seems to have some contradictory foreign policy stances.

He wants to bomb the hell out of ISIS but then talk about

not getting involved in other countries. Guess we'll see

what happens over the next few years.

 

Kissinger is still around, trying to prove that the good do

die young.


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Curse Sir Walter Raleigh, he was such a stupid get.





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