We're excited to present a great new set of boards to classic movie fans with tons of new features, stability, and performance.

If you’re new to the message boards, please “Register” to get started. If you want to learn more about the new boards, visit our FAQ.

Register

If you're a returning member, start by resetting your password to claim your old display name using your email address.

Re-Register

Thanks for your continued support of the TCM Message Boards.

X

Kyle Kersten was a true friend of TCM. One of the first and most active participants of the Message Boards, “Kyle in Hollywood” (aka, hlywdkjk) demonstrated a depth of knowledge and largesse of spirit that made him one of the most popular and respected voices in these forums. This thread is a living memorial to his life and love of movies, which remain with us still.

X

Jump to content


Photo

Trump Is Not a Legitimate President

Rigged Election

  • Please log in to reply
131 replies to this topic

#81 SansFin

SansFin

    U. S. Citizen

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 6,950 posts

Posted 14 January 2017 - 04:39 PM

Can you tell us some strategies that he has used in dealing with Ukraine that may be similar to what he's doing with the United States?

Or can you just give us some idea of the kind of strategies that he uses in domestic politics in Russia?

 

 

His primary policy in all cases is to do what he pleases, lie to the world about it and pay foreign politicians to look the other way.

 

One of his main policies in both Ukraine and here is to hire locals to do dirty work. It is in Ukraine that his mercenaries bomb hospitals and kill nurses and rape the children of those who oppose Russia's control. It is here that his administration hires protesters who are trained to incite crowds to extremism and hires media consultants to produce fake news which will further discord between parties. The methods by which this policy is carried out differently in different areas is in keeping with the teachings of Sun Tzu.


  • mr6666 and Princess of Tap like this

My Avatar: Little girl ghost from "義足のMoses"

 

Russian nesting dolls are full of themselves.


#82 Swithin

Swithin

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 12,179 posts
  • LocationNew York City

Posted 14 January 2017 - 04:31 PM

Hilary doesn't matter any more, except in that Trump may have been complicit with the Russians in encouraging the hacking of her emails -- wherever they were -- so that he could win the election. Trump's emails may well have been hacked as well -- but the Russians are holding that information, as it may be far more damaging to Trump (and the country) than Hillary's innocuous emails were to her. After all, the hacking of Hillary's emails merely meant the loss of an election!

 

The hacking of Trump's -- that's much more serious. 

 

 



#83 LawrenceA

LawrenceA

    Cineaste

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 19,095 posts
  • LocationLook Out!

Posted 14 January 2017 - 04:31 PM

The private server which she maintained was definitely hacked. Information gathered from it eased the hacking of DNC servers because certain people used the same password for their accounts. Part of the information released to and via WikiLeaks came from her private server.

 

 

Do you have some sources for this? All I can find is that all of the 20.000+ documents leaked via WikiLeaks were acquired from the DNC computers and John Podesta's computer, from hacking, phishing, and maybe even some direct leaks from unnamed DNC whistleblowers. 

 

Edit: Researching for myself, I found a NYT article dated from July last year that says FBI director Comey said that they had no evidence of a hack on the private server, but the implication was that it could have happened and the hackers left no traces.

 

I also saw a lot of other articles stating definitively that the private server was hacked, but they were all stories from FOX, Breitbart, etc, released the last few days before the election, so those hold about as much water as a fishnet. 



#84 SansFin

SansFin

    U. S. Citizen

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 6,950 posts

Posted 14 January 2017 - 04:22 PM

You seem to be combining two separate scandals. AFAIK, Hillary's private server that was the subject of the DOJ and FBI investigation was not hacked by the Russians. The computers hacked by the Russians were John Podesta's computer at the Clinton campaign, and the DNC (Democratic National Comittee) computers. 

 

As far as Russia/Putin wanting Trump to win over Clinton, I (and many others elsewhere) have posted many times that Trump will lift the sanctions against Russia quickly, whereas Hillary most likely would not have. The Exxon deal alone was worth $500 billion.

 

 

The private server which she maintained was definitely hacked. Information gathered from it eased the hacking of DNC servers because certain people used the same password for their accounts. Part of the information released to and via WikiLeaks came from her private server.

 

She allowed Russia to gain strategic American uranium in exchange for speaking fees for her husband. I doubt her ethical standards would have risen as much as her price would have.


My Avatar: Little girl ghost from "義足のMoses"

 

Russian nesting dolls are full of themselves.


#85 Princess of Tap

Princess of Tap

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 9,364 posts

Posted 14 January 2017 - 03:28 PM

I believe this instance is more along the lines of thieves stealing the loot of other thieves āla: Lock, Stock and Two Smoking Barrels (1998).

She illegally used a private server specifically so that her e-mails would be outside the scrutiny and access normally associated with government servers. This was her method of protecting herself against investigations of ethics violations and to prevent whistleblowers from publicizing her comments. It has been found that she had a plan to later cherry-pick which e-mails would be archived as part of the official record of her term. The original FBI finding was that her actions were illegal.

It would have worked well if she and her staff were not incompetent buffoons incapable of understanding basic security precautions.

The foreign hacking may have been immoral and/or unethical and/or many other things but I doubt that it was technically illegal. There is no proof that the hacking was performed from within the United States of America. Many countries have no laws against the hacking of foreign websites or computers. International law has been purposely crafted to be quite fuzzy on the issue because no country wishes to have impediments to their hacking of their enemy's computers. FSB's hackers working from offices in Moscow and IRA Ltd's hackers working from offices on Savushkina Street are as immune from America's cyber-laws as Americans are immune from Tehran's law that all adulteresses be stoned to death.

I find it perversely amusing that many think that the hacking demonstrates that Russia wished Trump to win. This false belief plays directly into Putin's scheme. The intent was to sow discord and suspicion. It accomplished this goal perfectly. I feel that this should come as no surprise because it follows the teachings of Sun Tzu. The decision to not widely publicize e-mails hacked from RNC computers was obviously based on the fact that those e-mails would not have been as divisive and would attract far fewer raving maniacs who would further distort the basic facts of the incident and would demonize any who they thought profited from it.



Sans--

You probably know more about Putin than any of us.

Can you tell us some strategies that he has used in dealing with Ukraine that may be similar to what he's doing with the United States?

Or can you just give us some idea of the kind of strategies that he uses in domestic politics in Russia?

#86 LawrenceA

LawrenceA

    Cineaste

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 19,095 posts
  • LocationLook Out!

Posted 14 January 2017 - 03:27 PM

I believe this instance is more along the lines of thieves stealing the loot of other thieves āla: Lock, Stock and Two Smoking Barrels (1998).

 

She illegally used a private server specifically so that her e-mails would be outside the scrutiny and access normally associated with government servers. This was her method of protecting herself against investigations of ethics violations and to prevent whistleblowers from publicizing her comments. It has been found that she had a plan to later cherry-pick which e-mails would be archived as part of the official record of her term. The original FBI finding was that her actions were illegal. 

 

It would have worked well if she and her staff were not incompetent buffoons incapable of understanding basic security precautions.

 

The foreign hacking may have been immoral and/or unethical and/or many other things but I doubt that it was technically illegal. There is no proof that the hacking was performed from within the United States of America. Many countries have no laws against the hacking of foreign websites or computers. International law has been purposely crafted to be quite fuzzy on the issue because no country wishes to have impediments to their hacking of their enemy's computers. FSB's hackers working from offices in Moscow and IRA Ltd's hackers working from offices on Savushkina Street are as immune from America's cyber-laws as Americans are immune from Tehran's law that all adulteresses be stoned to death. 

 

I find it perversely amusing that many think that the hacking demonstrates that Russia wished Trump to win. This false belief plays directly into Putin's scheme. The intent was to sow discord and suspicion. It accomplished this goal perfectly. I feel that this should come as no surprise because it follows the teachings of Sun Tzu. The decision to not widely publicize e-mails hacked from RNC computers was obviously based on the fact that those e-mails would not have been as divisive and would attract far fewer raving maniacs who would further distort the basic facts of the incident and would demonize any who they thought profited from it.

 

You seem to be combining two separate scandals. AFAIK, Hillary's private server that was the subject of the DOJ and FBI investigation was not hacked by the Russians. The computers hacked by the Russians were John Podesta's computer at the Clinton campaign, and the DNC (Democratic National Comittee) computers. 

 

As far as Russia/Putin wanting Trump to win over Clinton, I (and many others elsewhere) have posted many times that Trump will lift the sanctions against Russia quickly, whereas Hillary most likely would not have. The Exxon deal alone was worth $500 billion.


  • Princess of Tap likes this

#87 SansFin

SansFin

    U. S. Citizen

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 6,950 posts

Posted 14 January 2017 - 03:17 PM

So if you have left your door unlocked and it just so happens that a gang enter and murder your family and steal everything you have only yourself to blame?   

 

I believe this instance is more along the lines of thieves stealing the loot of other thieves āla: Lock, Stock and Two Smoking Barrels (1998).

 

She illegally used a private server specifically so that her e-mails would be outside the scrutiny and access normally associated with government servers. This was her method of protecting herself against investigations of ethics violations and to prevent whistleblowers from publicizing her comments. It has been found that she had a plan to later cherry-pick which e-mails would be archived as part of the official record of her term. The original FBI finding was that her actions were illegal. 

 

It would have worked well if she and her staff were not incompetent buffoons incapable of understanding basic security precautions.

 

The foreign hacking may have been immoral and/or unethical and/or many other things but I doubt that it was technically illegal. There is no proof that the hacking was performed from within the United States of America. Many countries have no laws against the hacking of foreign websites or computers. International law has been purposely crafted to be quite fuzzy on the issue because no country wishes to have impediments to their hacking of their enemy's computers. FSB's hackers working from offices in Moscow and IRA Ltd's hackers working from offices on Savushkina Street are as immune from America's cyber-laws as Americans are immune from Tehran's law that all adulteresses be stoned to death. 

 

I find it perversely amusing that many think that the hacking demonstrates that Russia wished Trump to win. This false belief plays directly into Putin's scheme. The intent was to sow discord and suspicion. It accomplished this goal perfectly. I feel that this should come as no surprise because it follows the teachings of Sun Tzu. The decision to not widely publicize e-mails hacked from RNC computers was obviously based on the fact that those e-mails would not have been as divisive and would attract far fewer raving maniacs who would further distort the basic facts of the incident and would demonize any who they thought profited from it.


My Avatar: Little girl ghost from "義足のMoses"

 

Russian nesting dolls are full of themselves.


#88 NipkowDisc

NipkowDisc

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 10,662 posts
  • Locationzaygon hegemony

Posted 14 January 2017 - 02:58 PM

Right, because it helped your guy. But Comey was still wrong to do so.

perhaps you are right. comey may have gotten personal. what would have caused that? loretta lynch accidentally bumping into bill clinton at the airport?

 

think nothing of it, jim. it just happened. :lol:


"okay, so we're moving right along, folks" -al pacino, dog day afternoon


#89 TomJH

TomJH

    I know what gold does to men's souls.

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 9,557 posts

Posted 14 January 2017 - 02:44 PM

i do hope so. :lol:

 

Right, because it helped your guy. But Comey was still wrong to do so.



#90 NipkowDisc

NipkowDisc

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 10,662 posts
  • Locationzaygon hegemony

Posted 14 January 2017 - 02:24 PM

in my opinion. Many voters sitting indecisively on the wall about Clinton decided against her because of that.

i do hope so. :lol:


"okay, so we're moving right along, folks" -al pacino, dog day afternoon


#91 TomJH

TomJH

    I know what gold does to men's souls.

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 9,557 posts

Posted 14 January 2017 - 02:11 PM

I believe there is a tie between what Comey did and Lynch.   After Lynch made that terrible decision to meet with Bill Clinton (regardless of what occurs the perception tainted her) she had to move to the background and that pushed Comey to the foreground.      Trump supporters will say that (Lynch having to hide) forced Comey to 'do his duty' while Hillary supporters will say that it opened the door for Comey to act in an inappropriate manne

 

I know that, James. But, aside from Lynch, no one forced Comey to send that letter about the new emails so close to the election (especially since they turned out to be a big nothing). That was his decision and the blame (or admiration by some) for it falls on his shoulders.

 

Comey's interference had a major impact on who won the election, in my opinion. Many voters sitting indecisively on the wall about Clinton decided against her because of that.


  • NipkowDisc likes this

#92 jamesjazzguitar

jamesjazzguitar

    There is nothing as bad as something not so bad

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 17,059 posts
  • LocationCalifornia

Posted 14 January 2017 - 01:57 PM

What Lynch said or didn't say behind the scenes is a side issue. It was Comey's decision to interfere in the election 11 days before the end, and he bears responsibility for his behaviour which, I think, clearly influenced the final results.

 

You don't want to criticize him strictly because he helped your guy win, ignoring the inappropriateness of his action.

 

I believe there is a tie between what Comey did and Lynch.   After Lynch made that terrible decision to meet with Bill Clinton (regardless of what occurs the perception tainted her) she had to move to the background and that pushed Comey to the foreground.      Trump supporters will say that (Lynch having to hide) forced Comey to 'do his duty' while Hillary supporters will say that it opened the door for Comey to act in an inappropriate manner.



#93 Princess of Tap

Princess of Tap

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 9,364 posts

Posted 14 January 2017 - 01:14 PM

That's unusual. I post like a machine gun, often not pondering before I post. I regret some of my posts. You must consider your posts very carefully.



I've read most of the stuff that you posted and it's usually very witty and funny. You do things off the top of your head and they're often very clever. I enjoy them very much, for the most part.

Fra--

I was trained as a journalist, and I was taught that every word counted:
Don't waste words - - and mean everything you say.

#94 DownGoesFrazier

DownGoesFrazier

    Advanced Spinner

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 57,510 posts
  • LocationPhiladelphia, PA

Posted 14 January 2017 - 01:10 PM

I don't know what you're talking about - - but I have no guilt-- I have no guilty feelings or any problems with anything I've ever written on this website.

That's unusual. I post like a machine gun, often not pondering before I post. I regret some of my posts. You must consider your posts very carefully.


  • Princess of Tap likes this

#95 Princess of Tap

Princess of Tap

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 9,364 posts

Posted 14 January 2017 - 01:04 PM

Falsely accusing people of racism is about the lowest form of demagoguery. Its what people do when they have nothing else to say.



I don't know what you're talking about - - but I have no guilt-- I have no guilty feelings or any problems with anything I've ever written on this website.

#96 HIGHWAY

HIGHWAY

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,205 posts

Posted 14 January 2017 - 12:58 PM

What Lynch said or didn't say behind the scenes is a side issue. It was Comey's decision to interfere in the election 11 days before the end, and he bears responsibility for his behaviour which, I think, clearly influenced the final results.

 

You don't want to criticize him strictly because he helped your guy win, ignoring the inappropriateness of his action.

Your satisfied to look at the sunset but you can't put your partisanship aside to look at the sunrise,"cause and effect". That's alright, I welcome the Inspector Generals probe and lets see what comes out.


#97 DownGoesFrazier

DownGoesFrazier

    Advanced Spinner

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 57,510 posts
  • LocationPhiladelphia, PA

Posted 14 January 2017 - 12:27 PM

Trump is not a legitimate human being.


  • Sepiatone and Princess of Tap like this

#98 TomJH

TomJH

    I know what gold does to men's souls.

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 9,557 posts

Posted 14 January 2017 - 12:23 PM

 

And what role did Loretta Lynch play in causing Comey to have a bigger role?

 

 

What Lynch said or didn't say behind the scenes is a side issue. It was Comey's decision to interfere in the election 11 days before the end, and he bears responsibility for his behaviour which, I think, clearly influenced the final results.

 

You don't want to criticize him strictly because he helped your guy win, ignoring the inappropriateness of his action.



#99 NipkowDisc

NipkowDisc

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 10,662 posts
  • Locationzaygon hegemony

Posted 14 January 2017 - 12:02 PM

 

And what role did Loretta Lynch play in causing Comey to have a bigger role?

 

my thoughts exactly.


"okay, so we're moving right along, folks" -al pacino, dog day afternoon


#100 HIGHWAY

HIGHWAY

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,205 posts

Posted 14 January 2017 - 12:00 PM

Clinton was comfortably ahead in the polls and Trump was floundering - until James Comey put the email issue back on the front burner once again 11 days before the election. After that the momentum swung to Trump and he never lost it.

 

I tend to think that Comey played a bigger hand than even the Russian hacking in swinging the election in the last week and a half.

 

So the intelligence community blew it on the WMD. We all know that. But does that mean that you never again believe anything they have to say, or are you always going to sight WMD regarding intelligence reports whenever it suits your partisan political beliefs? How convenient.

 

Just like Trump, except even he now acknowledges it was the Russians behind Wikileaks.

And what role did Loretta Lynch play in causing Comey to have a bigger role?

  • NipkowDisc likes this




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users