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Kyle Kersten was a true friend of TCM. One of the first and most active participants of the Message Boards, “Kyle in Hollywood” (aka, hlywdkjk) demonstrated a depth of knowledge and largesse of spirit that made him one of the most popular and respected voices in these forums. This thread is a living memorial to his life and love of movies, which remain with us still.

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Bette and Joan


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732 replies to this topic

#1 Swithin

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Posted Yesterday, 08:38 PM

a really good slate article about how the show ended on a high note
 

"FEUD WAS RIGHT TO FORSAKE BETTE FOR JOAN"

 

http://www.slate.com...n_crawford.html

 

Very good article, thanks. I agree with much (though not all) of it. I think vulnerability is always better fodder for drama than strength, hence the emphasis on Joan. Bette was after all an Old Yankee -- she may have been slightly vulnerable at times, but not needy in the sense that Joan was. I remember seeing Bette on the Tonight Show, after her illness. She was still feisty, still very much in charge. She didn't seem to care that she bore the visible scars of her illness. She was a lively raconteur, about the past, and about the current state of Hollywood and acting.

 

In the end, though, I continue to be bowled over by the quality of the vast majority of Bette's films; and their diversity. There are many I can watch over and over again -- and do. I don't really know of any Joan Crawford movies that I can say that about. (Maybe I haven't seen enough Crawford films, which is certainly possible.)

 

But I loved Feud, from the beginning to the very last shot.


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#2 GGGGerald

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Posted Yesterday, 08:00 PM

a really good slate article about how the show ended on a high note
 

"FEUD WAS RIGHT TO FORSAKE BETTE FOR JOAN"

 

http://www.slate.com...n_crawford.html

 

Are you saying you actually stayed with the series to the end ?

 

This is a project that definitely has to be seen in its entirety to really appreciate it. That was a very good article



#3 LornaHansonForbes

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Posted Yesterday, 07:48 PM

Yes, good article and I agree with it.


Slate.com has run quite a few excellent articles on classic Hollywood in the last year.
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#4 ChristineHoard

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Posted Yesterday, 06:31 PM

a really good slate article about how the show ended on a high note
 

"FEUD WAS RIGHT TO FORSAKE BETTE FOR JOAN"

 

http://www.slate.com...n_crawford.html

 

Yes, good article and I agree with it.


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#5 Hibi

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Posted Yesterday, 01:44 PM

My understanding is that they just stole and burned JFK's toothbrush and shaving kit.   :blink:

 

 

LOL. Maybe RFK's too........



#6 jamesjazzguitar

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Posted Yesterday, 01:29 PM

Yes, there was a cover up. She died earlier in the day and the place was gone over and incriminating stuff burned or stolen.  If she was murdered,  any evidence was destroyed.

 

My understanding is that they just stole and burned JFK's toothbrush and shaving kit.   :blink:



#7 spence

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Posted Yesterday, 01:20 PM

   Guarantee it's ratings will drop though

 

 

(NOTE: WHO REcALLS THE 1979/80 TIV MINI-SERIES TV MINI_SERIEs'movieola?" Even carson had many guests on?



#8 Hibi

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Posted Yesterday, 01:01 PM

The cover up?    So you believe she was murdered?     (otherwise cover-up of what)

 

Anyhow,  based on the posts here it looks like a Marilyn \ Kennedy feud has a lot to offer.

 

 

Yes, there was a cover up. She died earlier in the day and the place was gone over and incriminating stuff burned or stolen.  If she was murdered,  any evidence was destroyed.


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#9 jamesjazzguitar

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Posted Yesterday, 12:57 PM

I was referring to people I know who were watching the series. All of which were in their 20's and 30's.

 

That tends to be a recurring theme on these boards. There are quite a few young people interested in Old Hollywood. They just need an entrance point, a place of reference. All they seem to know is Marilyn Monroe and maybe Audrey Hepburn. I had a friend who owned a picture frame shop. He had ready made framed photos of Marilyn and he told me they sold like no other person.

 

Series like this can be a launching point. Now, how many will seek out the films of Joan and Bette ? Magically , they will start showing up on some of these channels that specialize in classic film. 

 

Have you ever noticed the shorts TCM plays where the show people of all ages commenting on their favorite stars/films ? Who do you think attends the festival and all the other events TCM holds ?

 

Preaching to young people that "Our movies are better than yours" will drive them away. Show them a new production that celebrates classic film : The class, the glamour, the talent etc... and they have to at least take a look.

 

Sorry but terms like quite a few or many don't communicate much.    They are way to vague.   E.g. is quite a few 20% or 5%?

 

What is meaningful to me is some type of relative comparison;  e.g.  what percentage of your movie viewing time is spent on watching  films made before 1970 verses films made after 2010?      (for me it would be 90\10).     What is the ratio for those under 40 versus those over 40?  etc..

 

But hey I'm a data guy.  

 

PS:  but years ago my guitar teacher said that being a data guy was great for learning musical theory but that I needed to think less and FEEL more.   So being a data guy isn't always a positive.  :D



#10 Arturo

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Posted Yesterday, 12:17 PM

a really good slate article about how the show ended on a high note
 
"FEUD WAS RIGHT TO FORSAKE BETTE FOR JOAN"
 
http://www.slate.com...n_crawford.html


Great article. Thanks for posting it Lorna.
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#11 LornaHansonForbes

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Posted Yesterday, 12:03 PM

a really good slate article about how the show ended on a high note
 

"FEUD WAS RIGHT TO FORSAKE BETTE FOR JOAN"

 

http://www.slate.com...n_crawford.html


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#12 spence

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Posted Yesterday, 01:54 AM

 HEY ! ON MY SIDE & A TONNGE OF 0THERS, WHAT HAPENNED TO ONE OF THE WORLD MOST BEAUTIFUL ACTRESS-(Catherine Zeta Jones)& OLIVIA DE HAVILAND???
SOMEONJE TELL ME IS SHE ALREADY GONE BYE BYE?

 



#13 GGGGerald

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Posted Yesterday, 12:25 AM

Well you just happen to have a very sophisticated and classy family!      It would be interesting to see a demographic breakdown of who watched this series.    E.g. where did you get that 'actually, more young people,,,,' stat?

 

I was referring to people I know who were watching the series. All of which were in their 20's and 30's.

 

That tends to be a recurring theme on these boards. There are quite a few young people interested in Old Hollywood. They just need an entrance point, a place of reference. All they seem to know is Marilyn Monroe and maybe Audrey Hepburn. I had a friend who owned a picture frame shop. He had ready made framed photos of Marilyn and he told me they sold like no other person.

 

Series like this can be a launching point. Now, how many will seek out the films of Joan and Bette ? Magically , they will start showing up on some of these channels that specialize in classic film. 

 

Have you ever noticed the shorts TCM plays where the show people of all ages commenting on their favorite stars/films ? Who do you think attends the festival and all the other events TCM holds ?

 

Preaching to young people that "Our movies are better than yours" will drive them away. Show them a new production that celebrates classic film : The class, the glamour, the talent etc... and they have to at least take a look.


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#14 jamesjazzguitar

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Posted 25 April 2017 - 06:41 PM

Pat Newcomb who worked for Marilyn also had a Kennedy connection and went to work for them after Marilyn had died. Apparently Lawford knew a lot of details about Marilyn's death and helped in the cover up.

 

The cover up?    So you believe she was murdered?     (otherwise cover-up of what)

 

Anyhow,  based on the posts here it looks like a Marilyn \ Kennedy feud has a lot to offer.



#15 Hibi

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Posted 25 April 2017 - 05:38 PM

Pat Newcomb who worked for Marilyn also had a Kennedy connection and went to work for them after Marilyn had died. Apparently Lawford knew a lot of details about Marilyn's death and helped in the cover up.



#16 Princess of Tap

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Posted 25 April 2017 - 05:18 PM

Could one say there was a feud between the Kennedy family and Monroe and her 'handlers'?

I ask because I don't know if there would be enough here to drive a series but it has all the hot buttons to squeeze a lot from.



That's a funny question because Monroe's "Handler" and the Kennedy family representative to her was one and the same person, handsome Rat Packer Peter Lawford. Do you remember him introducing Marilyn Monroe at JFK's birthday party when she sang "Happy Birthday, Mr. President"?

Lawford was conveniently Monroe's best "buddy" and Sinatra's pal, while also being married to Patricia Kennedy, making him Jack Kennedy's brother-in-law.

Other family members like his brother Bobby and his brother-in-law Sargent Shriver had important positions in the Kennedy Administration, but if you ever look at tête à tête photos between Jack and Peter Lawford, those look extremely profound.

If you didn't know better, you would wonder what cabinet post Peter had to be in such deep conversations with the president. LOL

#17 jamesjazzguitar

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Posted 25 April 2017 - 02:34 PM

    One more thing nobody even seemed to mention what I now call "The Most Beautiful Woman Alive" Oscar winner Cartherine Zeta Jones as Olivia???

 

De  Havilland was pretty in her day, but sooo ladylike,etc Where-(WHO AGREES) Catherine didn't look like her at all unfortunately?

 

The topic of Jones as De Havilland was discussed at this thread back in early April.

 

Anyhow I agree with you;   Yes,  Olivia was very pretty in her day but Zeta Jones is from another planet.    


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#18 Hibi

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Posted 25 April 2017 - 02:21 PM

I suggest if they do another season, it should be about Hedda Hopper and Louella Parsons. Have Judy Davis reprise her role as Hedda, and get somebody like Sigourney Weaver play Louella.

 

 

That would be great too.



#19 jamesjazzguitar

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Posted 25 April 2017 - 01:49 PM

Well, I spent Easter Sunday with family watching kids chase after easter eggs filled with money. And their parents, in their 20's and 30's. This Feud series was a topic of discussion.

 

Actually, more young people were watching it than those in the age group who actually knew who the actresses were. 

 

Well you just happen to have a very sophisticated and classy family!      It would be interesting to see a demographic breakdown of who watched this series.    E.g. where did you get that 'actually, more young people,,,,' stat?

 

As some have already noted the series was also about how men control Hollywood and how they and the 'industry' could be unfair and unkind to talented actresses once they turned 40 or so.    So maybe with current events many women, especially younger ones,   were drawn to the series. 



#20 spence

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Posted 25 April 2017 - 01:47 PM

    One more thing nobody even seemed to mention what I now call "The Most Beautiful Woman Alive" Oscar winner Cartherine Zeta Jones as Olivia???

 

De  Havilland was pretty in her day, but sooo ladylike,etc Where-(WHO AGREES) Catherine didn't look like her at all unfortunately?






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