We're excited to present a great new set of boards to classic movie fans with tons of new features, stability, and performance.

If you’re new to the message boards, please “Register” to get started. If you want to learn more about the new boards, visit our FAQ.

Register

If you're a returning member, start by resetting your password to claim your old display name using your email address.

Re-Register

Thanks for your continued support of the TCM Message Boards.

X

Kyle Kersten was a true friend of TCM. One of the first and most active participants of the Message Boards, “Kyle in Hollywood” (aka, hlywdkjk) demonstrated a depth of knowledge and largesse of spirit that made him one of the most popular and respected voices in these forums. This thread is a living memorial to his life and love of movies, which remain with us still.

X

Jump to content


Photo

Bette and Joan


  • Please log in to reply
371 replies to this topic

#261 Hibi

Hibi

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 19,732 posts
  • LocationOhio

Posted 10 March 2017 - 10:27 AM

There are 8 episodes.  One devoted to the Oscars  called "And the Winner is....".  It's interesting that there doesn't seem to be someone playing Anne Bancroft that we know of...I have read that a number of actors/actresses will be portrayed at the Oscar ceremony.  After all, Joan delivered the Oscar personally to Anne in NY  after one of Anne's stage performances.

 

 

YES. (Thanks).



#262 RoyCronin

RoyCronin

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 521 posts
  • LocationNYC

Posted 10 March 2017 - 10:10 AM

There are 8 episodes.  One devoted to the Oscars  called "And the Winner is....".  It's interesting that there doesn't seem to be someone playing Anne Bancroft that we know of...I have read that a number of actors/actresses will be portrayed at the Oscar ceremony.  After all, Joan delivered the Oscar personally to Anne in NY  after one of Anne's stage performances.


  • LornaHansonForbes likes this

#263 Hibi

Hibi

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 19,732 posts
  • LocationOhio

Posted 10 March 2017 - 09:56 AM

How many episodes are there of Bette and Joan? I recorded it and havent had time to watch more than the first 10 mins or so. (No sign of Bette yet) I thought Lange was very good as Joan, but the show does take liberties. That Marilyn/Joan feud took place in the early 50's not 1961! Judy Davis was good as Hedda. I didnt evern realize that was Zeta-Jones as Olivia!



#264 AndrewSchone

AndrewSchone

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 16 posts

Posted 09 March 2017 - 09:59 PM

I watched the first episode with relish--well mounted, campy fun. The actors seemed to be having a fine old time playing the old Hollywood figures and did a capable job of it.  I especially enjoyed Judy Davis as Hedda Hopper, and wonder if she might have been in the running to play Betty Davis; she would have been at least as good as Sarandon in the role.

 

The one casting misfire was Zetta-Jones as Olivia DeHavilland; not believable at all.

 

The production design was quite opulent for a TV show, and the home used as Crawford's was appropriately grand, in Beverly Hills classic style.

 

I did spot a few minor historical inaccuracies, but nothing too glaring. 

 

 



#265 ChristineHoard

ChristineHoard

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 372 posts
  • LocationGA

Posted 09 March 2017 - 08:22 PM

One of the great performances by an older actress in contemporary times was Ellen Burstyn in Requiem for a Dream.  ​She was brilliant -- nearly 70 when she made the film. She was nominated for Best Actress and should have won. 

 

Off topic a bit but I couldn't agree more.  I think Julia Roberts won because everyone loved her and voters probably thought she was "due" but Burstyn's performance was absolutely terrific.

 

As for FEUD, I love Bette and I love Joan and I love WHATEVER HAPPENED TO...so I wasn't sure if I wanted to see it because I didn't want the film makers to make fun of these two great women and their wonderful movie.  But I enjoyed it so far and I'm going to follow it through.  Love Judy Davis and Kathy Bates in it.  I have to use my imagination a bit with the two leads; sort of like Anthony Hopkins as Richard Nixon in NIXON.  They may not look that much like their characters but they are getting the mannerisms down pretty good.  Favorite scene so far was Bette with soon-to-be ex-husband Gary Merrill.


  • Swithin likes this

#266 AndreaDoria

AndreaDoria

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 226 posts
  • LocationOhio

Posted 09 March 2017 - 08:07 PM

I just watched online at the FX site -- no charge.

 

 

 

I thought the great Judy Davis was very good, "Welcome to the house that fear built."  Hah!

 

Catherine Zeta Jones as Olivia?   Just no.  What was that accent?

 

Susan Sarandon as Bette Davis;  I thought she had the look and the sound as well as anyone could be expected to do for such a unique actress.  Susan's slightly poppy brown eyes are a plus for the part.

 

Jessica Lange as Joan just wasn't right for me.  Joan was still very firm faced and beautiful at that time.  Jessica, with her tiny nose and eyes is almost opposite in type and her voice is too wispy.  But I agree that it's nice to see the soft vulnerable side of Joan. 

 

If I have to take a side in the feud -- and I love both women -- I'll take Joan because she did have a terrible childhood while Bette grew up well off and spoiled.

 

Keirnan Shipka as B. D. Hyman (Bette's daughter)  was a nice tie in with "Mad Men," where she played the Draper's daughter and grew up in front of us.  It's as if she's stuck in the sixties forever.  I hope she gets some good scenes later, she's a really good actress.

 

 What fun it is!  I'll be watching all of it, I'm sure.


  • Swithin and LornaHansonForbes like this

#267 johnm001

johnm001

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,908 posts

Posted 08 March 2017 - 11:00 PM

Are you talking about the tv mini-series "Feud?"  unfortunately I missed `1/2 of it, but it looks strong & is on FX

Yes, that's what I talking about.  I watched it via Comcast On Demand.  I hated it.



#268 jamesjazzguitar

jamesjazzguitar

    There is nothing as bad as something not so bad

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 16,297 posts
  • LocationCalifornia

Posted 08 March 2017 - 01:26 PM

Other than being white women, I see little to no resemblance.

 

Well they both have high cheek bones and slightly puffy cheeks,  but other than that,  I don't see any resemblance there   (and that could be because of how the photos were taken).



#269 LawrenceA

LawrenceA

    Champion

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 17,315 posts
  • LocationThereabouts

Posted 08 March 2017 - 12:28 PM

I agree that there is a very strong resemblance betwixt the two.

 

Other than being white women, I see little to no resemblance.



#270 LornaHansonForbes

LornaHansonForbes

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 5,735 posts
  • LocationDark City, USA

Posted 08 March 2017 - 12:13 PM

Here are side by side photos of Sarah Paulson and Geraldine Page. 

 

paulson3-240x240.jpg

 

I couldn't find any photos of Paulson "in character" as Page.

 

 

I agree that there is a very strong resemblance betwixt the two.

Have you ever seen HONDO (1953)? I think it is her finest performance and one of John Wayne's as well.



#271 Sepiatone

Sepiatone

    Enhanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 10,454 posts
  • LocationLincoln Park, MI

Posted 08 March 2017 - 10:56 AM

mamacita f (plural mamacitas)

  1. diminutive of mamá
  2. (Latin America, slang) babe, **** (sexually attractive woman)

Obviously NOT the woman's name, and probably NOT Joan's "Mama", and DEFINITLEY  not in the second category, I wonder at both the creation of the character and the name. (the word "h o t t i e" was given the star treatment)

 

 

Sepiatone


I started out with NOTHING...and still have most of it left!


#272 DougieB

DougieB

    I Love Melvin

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,653 posts

Posted 08 March 2017 - 10:27 AM

Carol Ann in "Mommie Dearest" was an amalgam of a number of Crawford assistants/secretaries:

 

Betty Barker was a long time assistant in Los Angeles who handled a lot of Joan's paper work even after Joan moved to NYC, and a woman named Darinka Papich was with Joan in her apartment when she died and was, I believe, a fellow Christian Scientist. 

 

The maid, Mamacita, was very much a real woman whom Joan hired when she was vacationing on Long Island and needed some help.  

Thanks. That's way more info than I was hoping for. The show seems to be giving Mamacita some of the qualities of Max, Gloria Swanson's dour employee/enforcer in Sunset Boulevard. Joan seems to rely heavily on her for advice and unquestioning moral support. I loved the scene where they come on the set for the first time and Mamacita walks directly behind Joan handing her the presents and whispering to Joan the pertinent personal information with which Joan then greets the crew members.


"When Fortuna spins you downward, go out to a movie and get more out of life."...Ignatious J. Reilly, A Confederacy of Dunces


#273 Swithin

Swithin

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 11,629 posts
  • LocationNew York City

Posted 07 March 2017 - 08:37 PM

Strangely, though not really considering her age & the theatrical roles mostly nowadays offered to ladies over 50 or so, she doesn't do much anymore. Unless your *Streep, you just don't get the pts. Unless it's television,etc

 

One of the great performances by an older actress in contemporary times was Ellen Burstyn in Requiem for a Dream.  ​She was brilliant -- nearly 70 when she made the film. She was nominated for Best Actress and should have won. 


  • Sepiatone and ChristineHoard like this

#274 spence

spence

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 977 posts
  • LocationTampa Bay, FL

Posted 07 March 2017 - 05:03 PM

I agree, and the fact that we are so used to what they look like, shouldn't deprive us of enjoying actors who portray them without precisely impersonating them. 

 

Here's what George M. Cohan looked like. Looks more like Robert Mitchum than James Cagney!

 

326_Cohan_3.jpg

O I've seen pix of the real Cohan for decades  He died same year the bio was released  in '42 at only age 64

 

Always wondered how *Cagney felt though, when George M. Cohan was often quoted as saying "Spencer Tracy your the Best Damn actor I've ever seen" unquote???



#275 spence

spence

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 977 posts
  • LocationTampa Bay, FL

Posted 07 March 2017 - 04:49 PM

i seem to recall hearing she wanted to go with a more sympathetic portrayal of Crawford than the producers did.

In my own "Alternate *Oscars" file I personally not only think *Dunaway was "robbed" of a 4th nomination, but despite it's campy pts outright deserved a 2nd Best Actress *Oscar for "Mommie Dearest"

 

Strangely, though not really considering her age & the theatruical roles mostly nowadays offered to ladies over 50 or so, she doesn't do much anymore. Unless your *Streep, you just don't get the pts. Unless it's television,etc



#276 spence

spence

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 977 posts
  • LocationTampa Bay, FL

Posted 07 March 2017 - 04:46 PM

I watched it on Comcast ON DEMAND.

Are you talking about the tv mini-series "Feud?"  unfortunately I missed `1/2 of it, but it looks strong & is on FX



#277 johnm001

johnm001

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,908 posts

Posted 07 March 2017 - 02:51 PM

i assumed it would be ON DEMAND so I did not tune in.

so far the first episode has not been made available.

I watched it on Comcast ON DEMAND.


  • LornaHansonForbes likes this

#278 HoldenIsHere

HoldenIsHere

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 3,976 posts

Posted 07 March 2017 - 02:35 PM

she was up for best actress in 1962 for SWEET BIRD...and accepted Joan's invite to accept on her behalf should she have won; it has been alleged that all the nominees did, Anne Bancroft certainly did...and interestingly enough, ANNE BANCROFT was the original choice to play Joan in MOMMIE DEAREST. 

 

Other than that, I can't think of any reason why there'd be any real enmity between Bette and Geraldine, their paths didn't cross professionally that i can think of...but maybe the maker of FEUD know something we done.

 

i am not sure if ANNE BANCROFT is a character in it or not, but i would imagine that if she were, she's be in the promotional material/ cast listings.

 

 

Here are side by side photos of Sarah Paulson and Geraldine Page. 

 

paulson3-240x240.jpg

 

I couldn't find any photos of Paulson "in character" as Page.


  • LornaHansonForbes likes this

#279 RoyCronin

RoyCronin

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 521 posts
  • LocationNYC

Posted 07 March 2017 - 02:32 PM

Carol Ann in "Mommie Dearest" was an amalgam of a number of Crawford assistants/secretaries:

 

Betty Barker was a long time assistant in Los Angeles who handled a lot of Joan's paper work even after Joan moved to NYC, and a woman named Darinka Papich was with Joan in her apartment when she died and was, I believe, a fellow Christian Scientist. 

 

The maid, Mamacita, was very much a real woman whom Joan hired when she was vacationing on Long Island and needed some help.  



#280 jamesjazzguitar

jamesjazzguitar

    There is nothing as bad as something not so bad

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 16,297 posts
  • LocationCalifornia

Posted 07 March 2017 - 01:28 PM

What an great cast. Alfred Molina amazes me every time I see him. I love Judy Davis always, but her sort of playful, insouciant interpretation of Hedda Hopper got me wondering. I've always thought of Hedda as more of a brute, but now I realize I don't know much about her after all, so I'd like to nominate Hedda and Louella Parsons for the next installment of Feud. There was a TV movie way back when called Malice in Wonderland  with Elizabeth Taylor (and Jane Alexander?) which covered their rivalry, but I don't remember much about it. I'd love to see Ryan Murphy's team's take on those two. Anyway, one of the most intriguing characters to me is Mamacita. I've been vaguely aware of her presence in Joan's life, but this show makes her very central. In Mommie Dearest there was the character of "Carol Ann" who was Joan's factotum for many years. Was she real or an amalgam? Or is Mamacita an amalgam of different characters? If anyone knows, I'm very curious.

 

Yes,  Alfred Molina was spot on.     As for Mamacita;  the first thing that came to my mind was Rosario and her relationship with Karen Walker on Will and Grace.    What would those people do without that help!

 

As you indicate a Hopper \ Parsons installment of Feud would be great.   


  • DougieB likes this




1 user(s) are reading this topic

1 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users


    Arturo