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Kyle Kersten was a true friend of TCM. One of the first and most active participants of the Message Boards, “Kyle in Hollywood” (aka, hlywdkjk) demonstrated a depth of knowledge and largesse of spirit that made him one of the most popular and respected voices in these forums. This thread is a living memorial to his life and love of movies, which remain with us still.

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Bette and Joan


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#261 GGGGerald

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Posted 03 April 2017 - 07:49 PM

 

 

 I wish there had been some conversation between the two women about their both choosing to "strike" and refuse roles at Warners' in the 30s and 40s,  ultimately resulting in the DeHavilland Act.  Apparently, this is one of the reasons these two ladies bonded.

 

Sounds like fodder for another series about old Hollywood.

 

These producers already said they won't go down this road again. I would think after the success of this series, someone might try it again. 



#262 ChristineHoard

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Posted 03 April 2017 - 07:38 PM

FYI:  In the real world, Joan was born in 1906.  Bette was born in 1908 & Olivia in 1916.  Susan was born in 1946, Jessica in 1949 and Catherine in 1969.


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#263 Arturo

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Posted 03 April 2017 - 07:33 PM

Re the whole Zeta-Jones as de Havilland conversation going on here...
 
Yep, this has been one of my reservations about this series since it started. I've felt Zeta-Jones has been miscast in this from the get-go, as not only does she not resemble Olivia in the slightest, either in the face or body type, but her voice is nowhere close to her's, either.
 
(...NOT of course that I've minded LOOKING that the absolutely GORGEOUS Miss Zeta-Jones in this thing, mind you)


Another minor quibble with the portrayal by the beautiful Zeta Jones.....she looked no younger in 1963 than she does in 1978. Everything seems the same.
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#264 lydecker

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Posted 03 April 2017 - 07:25 PM

Re the whole Zeta-Jones as de Havilland conversation going on here...

 

Yep, this has been one of my reservations about this series since it started. I've felt Zeta-Jones has been miscast in this from the get-go, as not only does she not resemble Olivia in the slightest, either in the face or body type, but her voice is nowhere close to her's, either.

 

(...NOT of course that I've minded LOOKING that the absolutely GORGEOUS Miss Zeta-Jones in this thing, mind you)

 

Totally agree. It's as though she isn't a contemporary of Bette or Joan. She looks about 30 years younger . . . I get that they want exposition but this doesn't make sense.


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#265 Dargo

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Posted 03 April 2017 - 06:59 PM

Re the whole Zeta-Jones as de Havilland conversation going on here...

 

Yep, this has been one of my reservations about this series since it started. I've felt Zeta-Jones has been miscast in this from the get-go, as not only does she not resemble Olivia in the slightest, either in the face or body type, but her voice is nowhere close to her's, either.

 

(...NOT of course that I've minded LOOKING that the absolutely GORGEOUS Miss Zeta-Jones in this thing, mind you)



#266 Arturo

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Posted 03 April 2017 - 06:57 PM

I haven't watched the whole episode yet, but sometimes when nominees are also presenters, they hang about backstage, if they are nominated. I think Bette presented Best Screenplay awards that year. So if that preceded Best Actress, she might have hung about backstage for her own nomination.


Bette Davis did present an award right after Joan's presentation, and right before the Best Actress presentation. According to Inside Oscar, Davis had a hard time pronouncing the three Italian names for one of the nominations, DIVORCE ITALIAN STYLE (I think), who were the winners. She said something like "the winners are the three Italians whose names I couldn't pronounce". On last night's episode of Feud, you can hear part of this in the background as Joan is backstage with David Lean and the other winners.
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#267 Dargo

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Posted 03 April 2017 - 06:03 PM

Bennett may have had an accent, but I never had any trouble understanding what he was saying--that was part of his charm.

From what I understand he was quite brilliant and a Random House editor.

I have a wonderful DVD of What's My Line featuring Lucy and Desi and, of course, Bette Davis when she was on Broadway.

 

Yes, I agree with ya here, Princess. Cerf was indeed a charming, intelligent, sophisticated and successful gent, to be sure. And yes again, I too always enjoyed his presence on that old game show, and even though many of HIS jokes and quips that he told on that program over the years were as corny as many of the ones that I offer up around here! ;)

 

However, what I think Cerf's manner of diction would probably be better classified as than any "accent", would be in his case an extreme example of someone with a non-rhotic manner of speech, or in essence the inability to pronounce the letter "r", and even more so than your average person with either a New England or New York or an upper eastern seaboard accent.

 

(...in other words, ol' Bennett always sounded a lot like Elmer Fudd to my ear, and I never ever had any problem understanding HIM either, and during all those cartoons I watched where HE was chasing that "wascally wabbit") ;)



#268 TheCid

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Posted 03 April 2017 - 05:52 PM

HUSH HUSH SWEET CHARLOTTE which starred Bette, Olivia, Joseph Cotten and Mary Astor.  Joan was going to be in it, but something happened and Olivia got the role.

OK, thanks.  Didn't know if we were talking about something to do with Charlotte NC, Princess Charlotte or Queen Charlotte.

I saw Hush, Hush Sweet Charlotte, but didn't make the connection.



#269 ChristineHoard

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Posted 03 April 2017 - 05:44 PM

Who or what is Charlotte?

 

HUSH HUSH SWEET CHARLOTTE which starred Bette, Olivia, Joseph Cotten and Mary Astor.  Joan was going to be in it, but something happened and Olivia got the role.



#270 rosebette

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Posted 03 April 2017 - 05:40 PM

I think DeHavilland was very, very pretty.  Look again at some of her photos.  She played down her looks in movies like THE SNAKE PIT and THE HEIRESS (a really great performance).  I thought is was funny in the scene where Bette is calling her in Paris and Olivia trashes the script for LADY IN A CAGE, a movie she did end up making (with Ann Sothern, no less, who we talked about in another recent thread).

Olivia was a lovely woman (Zeta Jones' make-up plays up her doe-eyes), but I checked out the footage of the 1963 Oscars.  Olivia's dress was more of a princess/modified empire style with a decolletage, not the form-fitting, va-va voom style that Zeta Jones wore, and of course, Jones has that magnificent figure.   Yes, in 1963, Olivia was still beautiful, despite the awful bouffant hairstyle.  She was a few years younger than Joan and Bette, and took good care of herself.  



#271 TheCid

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Posted 03 April 2017 - 05:21 PM

According to an interview, the other day, the next episode is about Charlotte, #7 is (I assume) going to be about Hollywood giving both Bette and Joan the cold shoulder after a few years, and #8 is going to be about the waning years of the 70s including Crawford's death and ending at the in memorium sequence for Crawford at the 1978 Oscars.

Who or what is Charlotte?


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#272 ChristineHoard

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Posted 03 April 2017 - 04:47 PM

I think DeHavilland was very, very pretty.  Look again at some of her photos.  She played down her looks in movies like THE SNAKE PIT and THE HEIRESS (a really great performance).  I thought is was funny in the scene where Bette is calling her in Paris and Olivia trashes the script for LADY IN A CAGE, a movie she did end up making (with Ann Sothern, no less, who we talked about in another recent thread).



#273 jakeem

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Posted 03 April 2017 - 04:27 PM

 
 
 
ore

Ryan Murphy talks about bringing the 35th Academy Awards back to life on "Feud" tp://bit.ly/2nreY1A 

More

 

C8bhS47UwAA6Prr.jpg
 
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#274 jamesjazzguitar

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Posted 03 April 2017 - 04:05 PM

I really enjoyed the last two episodes of Bette and Joan.  Last week, when Stanley Tucci at Jack Warner was an absolute s****, I thought, how can any human being behave worse than that?  Then, that actor who played Sinatra was absolutely right on the money with his voice and looks, and wow, if Sinatra behaved that badly, I don't know how anyone would give him a role in a movie.  Just goes to show that if a woman behaves badly, she's a witch with a "B" or a hag, but a man is star power.  I also enjoyed Mamacita rooting for Pauline's script and felt saddened when it was rejected.

 

I really enjoyed the Oscars.  I think Lange was at her best this week as she played Joan begging to accept an Oscar for an actress.  However, I felt the actress who played Ann Bancroft was completely miscast.  I hope the real Olivia was watching in Paris because Catherine Zeta Jones was an absolute knockout.  While deHavilland remained a handsome woman even in her later years, she was never that gorgeous.  If someone chooses to depict me in a film, I would choose Zeta Jones any day.  I wish there had been some conversation between the two women about their both choosing to "strike" and refuse roles at Warners' in the 30s and 40s,  ultimately resulting in the DeHavilland Act.  Apparently, this is one of the reasons these two ladies bonded.

 

Yes, Sarandon looked better than Bette did at that age -- the cigarettes and liquor took their toll, plus Bette never cared that much about her appearance.

 

Great write up.    Yea,   when Olivia was talking to Bette about fighting Hollywood I was really hoping Bette would say that it really was Olivia that changed the contract system.    Yea,  Bette started the fight by going to Britain but it was Olivia that prevailed in court.

 

Yea,  Zeta-Jones!   When I saw here come out in the white gown I looked up at my Olivia pictures on my wall and said 'sorry Olivia, but while I will always love you,,, you didn't look that hot!'.



#275 rosebette

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Posted 03 April 2017 - 03:59 PM

I really enjoyed the last two episodes of Bette and Joan.  Last week, when Stanley Tucci at Jack Warner was an absolute s****, I thought, how can any human being behave worse than that?  Then, that actor who played Sinatra was absolutely right on the money with his voice and looks, and wow, if Sinatra behaved that badly, I don't know how anyone would give him a role in a movie.  Just goes to show that if a woman behaves badly, she's a witch with a "B" or a hag, but a man is star power.  I also enjoyed Mamacita rooting for Pauline's script and felt saddened when it was rejected.

 

I really enjoyed the Oscars.  I think Lange was at her best this week as she played Joan begging to accept an Oscar for an actress.  However, I felt the actress who played Ann Bancroft was completely miscast.  I hope the real Olivia was watching in Paris because Catherine Zeta Jones was an absolute knockout.  While deHavilland remained a handsome woman even in her later years, she was never that gorgeous.  If someone chooses to depict me in a film, I would choose Zeta Jones any day.  I wish there had been some conversation between the two women about their both choosing to "strike" and refuse roles at Warners' in the 30s and 40s,  ultimately resulting in the DeHavilland Act.  Apparently, this is one of the reasons these two ladies bonded.

 

Yes, Sarandon looked better than Bette did at that age -- the cigarettes and liquor took their toll, plus Bette never cared that much about her appearance.

 


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#276 jamesjazzguitar

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Posted 03 April 2017 - 03:28 PM

Just heard that MLB dropped Pepsi for Coca-Cola.      Something tells me Bette is behind this!  



#277 Swithin

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Posted 03 April 2017 - 03:16 PM

What stood out to me was how flat out beautiful Catherina Zeta-Jones looked playing Olivia DeHavilland.

 

Since Olivia lived in Paris,  she was very Parisian in style and known for wearing Dior gowns,  but not like how Zeta-Jones looked.     

 

As for the Oscar ceremony shown;  why were Davis and Crawford back stage instead of in the audience?    Didn't the winners come from their seats in the audience or did they all the nominees hang out back stage?      Ok, I can see why Crawford might be back stage since she just gave out the award for Best Director but not Davis.    Did Davis NOT wish to be seen and I missed where that was explained?

 

I haven't watched the whole episode yet, but sometimes when nominees are also presenters, they hang about backstage, if they are nominated. I think Bette presented Best Screenplay awards that year. So if that preceded Best Actress, she might have hung about backstage for her own nomination.



#278 jamesjazzguitar

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Posted 03 April 2017 - 03:10 PM

What stood out to me was how flat out beautiful Catherina Zeta-Jones looked playing Olivia DeHavilland.

 

Since Olivia lived in Paris,  she was very Parisian in style and known for wearing Dior gowns,  but not like how Zeta-Jones looked.     

 

As for the Oscar ceremony shown;  why were Davis and Crawford back stage instead of in the audience?    Didn't the winners come from their seats in the audience or did they all the nominees hang out back stage?      Ok, I can see why Crawford might be back stage since she just gave out the award for Best Director but not Davis.    Did Davis NOT wish to be seen and I missed where that was explained?

 

 


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#279 Hibi

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Posted 03 April 2017 - 02:20 PM

From what I've read Bette Davis believed that Joan Crawford actively campaigned against her for the Oscar for BABY JANE.

 

One thing that struck me as odd on the latest FEUD episode was the portrayal of Geraldine Page as nervous when Joan Crawford called. Page was certainly never in awe of "Hollywood."  

Did Crawford really think that Page based her portrayal of Alexandra Del Lago in SWEET BIRD OF YOUTH on Crawford as was indicated in FEUD during the Crawford/Page phone call?

 

I think Sarah Paulson did a pretty good job of capturing Geraldine Page's voice.

 

The actor who played Rip Torn in that scene certainly portrayed him as "jittery."

 

 

Yes, I know Bette thought that, but I've never read anything that confirmed her opinion. I just think it was paranoia on Bette's part. I mean how much influence could Joan have on Academy voters? She was lucky to just be working.



#280 Princess of Tap

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Posted 03 April 2017 - 02:10 PM

I think it was 5


I've watched the first two episodes On Demand and there are at least two or three promo shows --that would make six or seven shows but they were not episodes per se.




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