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Kyle Kersten was a true friend of TCM. One of the first and most active participants of the Message Boards, “Kyle in Hollywood” (aka, hlywdkjk) demonstrated a depth of knowledge and largesse of spirit that made him one of the most popular and respected voices in these forums. This thread is a living memorial to his life and love of movies, which remain with us still.

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Noir Alley


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#21 TomJH

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Posted Today, 12:13 PM

 

In a Lonely Place is all the better for it's almost murder; if Dixon had actually killed Laurel, it would have been just another violent crime movie ending.

The film is more tragic because Laurel lives (saved by the telephone call that "would have meant so much" if it had come just a few minutes earlier), letting the horror of what might have happened, and what was almost certainly going to happen, sink in for both Dix and Laurel.  

Obviously there is no way Laurel can stay with him after that.

 

Well Laurel, at least, has the self survival instincts to leave Dix. That wouldn't necessarily apply to some other women, unfortunately. They'd be back for more of the same.
 



#22 jamesjazzguitar

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Posted Today, 11:50 AM

I am not saying that Eddie promoted anything.  I am saying that for the concept of unconditional love to apply to this movie, one has to come to terms with how that would relate to domestic violence.  I am attempting to discuss the film and the concepts it contains.

 

Laurel does initially does have unconditional love for Dixon.   This is made clear in the scene at the cop's house with his wife where she defends him.    Like a lot of women Laurel knows he has a violent temper but believes it will not be directed towards him (a folly associated with unconditional love).   After a few more incidences she realizes that it could be directed towards her and decides to leave him.    The ending makes clear that this was a wise decision.

 

Sadly this is fairly common behavior, yesterday and today.

 

PS:  I don't view unconditional love between parent and child as noble.   A common cocktail party question I will ask parents is 'would you bury the body?'.    I.e.  a son comes home with a body in the trunk and asks his father for help.   Does the parent call the police or help the son hide the body?     Most parents admit they would cover for their child because their love is unconditional.



#23 TomJH

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Posted Today, 11:38 AM

Just saw the promo The Narrow Margin (1952) Monday at 10:00AM (EST)

 

Marie Windsor - one of the great sexy tough broads of the movies in this film.

 

46eba707584a1625ba24efb8f4a10ec6--marie-
 


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#24 cmovieviewer

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Posted Today, 11:33 AM

Discussing the themes of a film is NOT promoting said themes.      E.g. if No Way Out was shown the host shouldn't mention racism, because 'with a more modern view of' racism,   "I don't see how this concept should be promoted in any way'? 

I am not saying that Eddie promoted anything.  I am saying that for the concept of unconditional love to apply to this movie, one has to come to terms with how that would relate to domestic violence.  I am attempting to discuss the film and the concepts it contains.



#25 jamesjazzguitar

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Posted Today, 11:25 AM

(spoilers for In A Lonely Place follow)

 

At the risk of getting people mad at me, Eddie mentioned that one of the themes of In A Lonely Place is unconditional love.  I would interpret this to apply to Gloria Grahame's Laurel and if she could love Humphrey Bogart's Dixon without knowing whether he is a killer or not.

 

When I hear the term unconditional love I normally think of the love between a parent and a child - a parent will love their child for their lifetime regardless of what the child does or if the child will love them back.  I don't think you usually hear this term applied to the love between adults (unless they are married or in a committed relationship), and how would this apply to having love override considerations for personal safety?

 

Is it some noble act for Laurel to stay with Dixon even though he is reckless and potentially dangerous (even life-threatening)?  (Especially if the original ending was used!)  With a more modern view of domestic violence, I don't see how this concept should be promoted in any way.  Perhaps those who have thought about the film can set me straight.

 

Discussing the themes of a film is NOT promoting said themes.      E.g. if No Way Out was shown the host shouldn't mention racism, because 'with a more modern view of' racism,   "I don't see how this concept should be promoted in any way'? 



#26 cmovieviewer

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Posted Today, 11:19 AM

(spoilers for In A Lonely Place follow)

 

At the risk of getting people mad at me, Eddie mentioned that one of the themes of In A Lonely Place is unconditional love.  I would interpret this to apply to Gloria Grahame's Laurel and if she could love Humphrey Bogart's Dixon without knowing whether he is a killer or not.

 

When I hear the term unconditional love I normally think of the love between a parent and a child - a parent will love their child for their lifetime regardless of what the child does or if the child will love them back.  I don't think you usually hear this term applied to the love between adults (unless they are married or in a committed relationship), and how would this apply to having love override considerations for personal safety?

 

Is it some noble act for Laurel to stay with Dixon even though he is reckless and potentially dangerous (even life-threatening)?  (Especially if the original ending was used!)  With a more modern view of domestic violence, I don't see how this concept should be promoted in any way.  Perhaps those who have thought about the film can set me straight.

 


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#27 jamesjazzguitar

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Posted Today, 11:17 AM

there's not really a lot to OUT OF THE FOG....As I recall it, it's kinda short and more like a filmed stage play (very static location)

also, as in THE SEA WOLF- the emphasis is not on the love story between Garfield and Lupino, which is odd, because you have two marvelous actors with real chemistry together.

 

AGAIN THOUGH, this is AS I RECALL IT, and it's been a while since i've seen it.

 

The Garfield character in OOTF is not worth loving.   He is a mean, selfish brute.   While the Lupino character does fall for him,  her motive for doing so is to get out of the fog (the dreary place she lives),  but finally wises up and decides the price for doing so is too high. 

 

Note this is somewhat similar to the Bogart\Lupino romance in High Sierra in that Bogart is a criminal but with a good heart.   He doesn't enjoy having to use violence like Garfield;  it is just a means to an end.    While Lupino is jealous of how Bogart helps the other gal (Joan Leslie),   it does show the sensitive side of the character.    

 

While both criminals die in the end,  Bogart's character is set free from a world that wasn't meant for him.  In the case of the Garfield character,  society is set free from him.


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#28 Hibi

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Posted Today, 11:08 AM

After reading the synopsis, I remember seeing The Long Night, but dont remember details at all. NOT a good sign........



#29 LornaHansonForbes

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Posted Today, 10:31 AM

Looking at Today's schedule Out of the Fog (1941) and The Long Night (1947)  are films I'm sort of ambivalent about, the first is on some Noir lists the other on most but is a remake of Le Jour se Leve (1939) both versions are decent but not on my top 100 list. 

 

there's not really a lot to OUT OF THE FOG....As I recall it, it's kinda short and more like a filmed stage play (very static location)

also, as in THE SEA WOLF- the emphasis is not on the love story between Garfield and Lupino, which is odd, because you have two marvelous actors with real chemistry together.

 

AGAIN THOUGH, this is AS I RECALL IT, and it's been a while since i've seen it.


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#30 cigarjoe

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Posted Today, 10:27 AM

Looking at Today's schedule Out of the Fog (1941) and The Long Night (1947)  are films I'm sort of ambivalent about, the first is on some Noir lists the other on most but is a remake of Le Jour se Leve (1939) both versions are decent but not on my top 100 list. 

 


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#31 Hibi

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Posted Today, 10:26 AM

No there are new apartment buildings on the old site, across the driveway to the apartments to the south is 644 N. Hill Place that, is still standing (just quick checked on Google maps).

 

 

I see. That sounded miraculous! LOL.



#32 Hibi

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Posted Today, 10:25 AM

The second film 1990 lost my interest with the helicopter and actions sequences. Film Noir were fairly simple as soon as remakes forget that and get too ambitious they lose that overall Noir zeitgeist, in my opinion.

 

 

Yes. They brought in the effects. It was inevitable.



#33 cigarjoe

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Posted Today, 09:53 AM

This is one of my favorite movies.  As best I can tell, The Forty-Niner was an actual Southern Pacific/Union Pacific/Chicago & Northwestern joint train between Los Angeles and Chicago.  This was train they arrived in Chicago on.

Central Pacific Railroad's The Golden West Limited was fictitious.  The CPRR was a subsidiary of the SPRR at the time.  

However, the Santa Fe did operate The California Limited between Chicago and Los Angeles via La Junta CO.  Most passenger car exteriors are of Southern Pacific cars.

 

This is probably first movie in which I first identified Marie Windsor and have been a fan ever since.  Same for Charles McGraw, although I recognized the face.

 

The film was remade in 1990 as Narrow Margin with Gene Hackman and Anne Archer.  Though based on The Narrow Margin, it is fairly different.  It is set primarily in Canada and uses VIA Rail Canada's Canadian.

 

While I like The Narrow Margin better, they are both good movies and well worth watching.

The second film 1990 lost my interest with the helicopter and actions sequences. Film Noir were fairly simple as soon as remakes forget that and get too ambitious they lose that overall Noir zeitgeist, in my opinion.



#34 Hibi

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Posted Today, 09:51 AM

I like the original better as well. The remake didnt  use the twist and was longer. Worth seeing if you hadnt seen the original..



#35 cigarjoe

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Posted Today, 09:48 AM

That's still there? Amazing.

No there are new apartment buildings on the old site, across the driveway to the apartments to the south is 644 N. Hill Place that, is still standing (just quick checked on Google maps).



#36 TheCid

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Posted Today, 09:27 AM

Just saw the promo The Narrow Margin (1952) Monday at 10:00AM (EST)

 

 

The majority of the film takes place upon the RKO "Golden West Limited" set as it rattles and rolls through movie magic very believably towards Los Angeles.  It's a work of Studio/Stage/Special Effects Art, the great design of the various rail car sets, the lighting effects, plus an all immersive sound design. This is all intercut with second unit exterior location material and stock footage that convey the illusion of " the jornada", a road picture on rails. There are not many road pictures as tight as this one just judging it visually and audibly alone. One of my favorites 10/10

This is one of my favorite movies.  As best I can tell, The Forty-Niner was an actual Southern Pacific/Union Pacific/Chicago & Northwestern joint train between Los Angeles and Chicago.  This was train they arrived in Chicago on.

Central Pacific Railroad's The Golden West Limited was fictitious.  The CPRR was a subsidiary of the SPRR at the time.  

However, the Santa Fe did operate The California Limited between Chicago and Los Angeles via La Junta CO.  Most passenger car exteriors are of Southern Pacific cars.

 

This is probably first movie in which I first identified Marie Windsor and have been a fan ever since.  Same for Charles McGraw, although I recognized the face.

 

The film was remade in 1990 as Narrow Margin with Gene Hackman and Anne Archer.  Though based on The Narrow Margin, it is fairly different.  It is set primarily in Canada and uses VIA Rail Canada's Canadian.

 

While I like The Narrow Margin better, they are both good movies and well worth watching.



#37 Hibi

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Posted Today, 09:23 AM

Yea I guess Angels Flight and the two tunnels 3rd & 2nd are all the remain, the new skyscrapers are like  Bunker Hill's tombstones. What I didn't check out this last time was the location of the Clover Trailer Park for Cry Danger, that is North of Bunker Hill on North Hill Place. 

 

That's still there? Amazing.



#38 cigarjoe

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Posted Today, 09:13 AM

One of mine too! (favorites!)

 

WOW.  Nice trip Cigar. i have a book about Bunker Hill with pictures. I'm always trying to spot locations in noir films. Really sad, it's gone. :(

Yea I guess Angels Flight and the two tunnels 3rd & 2nd are all the remain, the new skyscrapers are like  Bunker Hill's tombstones. What I didn't check out this last time was the location of the Clover Trailer Park for Cry Danger, that is North of Bunker Hill on North Hill Place. 



#39 Hibi

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Posted Today, 08:40 AM

One of mine too! (favorites!)

 

WOW.  Nice trip Cigar. i have a book about Bunker Hill with pictures. I'm always trying to spot locations in noir films. Really sad, it's gone. :(



#40 cigarjoe

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Posted Today, 08:36 AM

Just saw the promo The Narrow Margin (1952) Monday at 10:00AM (EST)

 

Narrow%2BMargin%2B102.jpg"Sunburn wear off..... on the way out?"

 

The majority of the film takes place upon the RKO "Golden West Limited" set as it rattles and rolls through movie magic very believably towards Los Angeles.  It's a work of Studio/Stage/Special Effects Art, the great design of the various rail car sets, the lighting effects, plus an all immersive sound design. This is all intercut with second unit exterior location material and stock footage that convey the illusion of " the jornada", a road picture on rails. There are not many road pictures as tight as this one just judging it visually and audibly alone. One of my favorites 10/10

 

 


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