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Kyle Kersten was a true friend of TCM. One of the first and most active participants of the Message Boards, “Kyle in Hollywood” (aka, hlywdkjk) demonstrated a depth of knowledge and largesse of spirit that made him one of the most popular and respected voices in these forums. This thread is a living memorial to his life and love of movies, which remain with us still.

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Noir Alley


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533 replies to this topic

#41 LornaHansonForbes

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Posted Today, 08:00 AM

SPOLIER SPOILERS SPOILER IN RE: IN A LONELY PLACE

 

No.

In a Lonely Place is all the better for it's almost murder; if Dixon had actually killed Laurel, it would have been just another violent crime movie ending.

The film is more tragic because Laurel lives (saved by the telephone call that "would have meant so much" if it had come just a few minutes earlier), letting the horror of what might have happened, and what was almost certainly going to happen, sink in for both Dix and Laurel.  

Obviously there is no way Laurel can stay with him after that.

 

It's profoundly sad - the two of them going their separate ways, knowing that they "lived a few weeks while they loved" each other, but that the happiness they had during those few weeks could never return.

 

As for the idea that the film would somehow be more noirish if Dix had succeeded in actually strangling Laurel, I say, the idea of murder in film noir is over-rated. There are actually quite of lot of noirs in which murder is not the main event.

 

 

I respect your argument, but I am still willing to die on the hill for the ORIGINAL ENDING to IN A LONELY PLACE.

 

Had I been on-set, I would've gotten into a violent argument with Ray, thrown pages in his face, and knocked over the craft services table as security hauled me off the Lot as I shouted a vocal, expletive-laden defense of my cause...


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#42 LornaHansonForbes

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Posted Today, 06:16 AM

Oh Hey,

THERE you are Miss Wonderly...or Miss O Shaughnessy, or whatever your name is.

I was starting to wonder if you were doing a dime at Chino or snagged up in some intrigue, you've been MIA.

Welcome back!
  • misswonderly3 likes this

#43 misswonderly3

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Posted Today, 12:12 AM

I agree that it's limiting. But I suspect that in some cases that may be the case. Let's put it this way, there are some posters you will rarely see make a contribution to these boards unless it's noir related.

 

I say it's time for Eddie Muller to lead the way for these film noir exclusives, leave those dark alleys for at least one day and burst out into tap dance and rousing rendition of "Singin' in the Rain." Even better if he's ready to run up a wall and flip backward in a tribute to Donald O'Connor's "Make 'Em Laugh" that would be great.

 

(Should Eddie fail to survive the backward flip, my apologies for the suggestion).

 

Interesting you should say that, Tom ..about "Make 'Em Laugh" and all that.

Because I've long maintained that a lot of noirs are quite funny - or at least, parts of them are. I was even thinking of starting a thread, something like "Noir and Comedy: Yes ! Many Noirs Make Me Laugh !"  

 

If I were to write a masters film thesis, I think my topic would be Comedy in Film Noir. I suspect no one's ever done it.


  • LornaHansonForbes likes this

"....What is it?"

"The stuff that dreams are made of."


#44 misswonderly3

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Posted Today, 12:05 AM

Beats me, but there are parts of the city that are definitely "noirish". The downtown area though, has turned around nicely.

 

...and it's home to the Rock 'n Roll Hall of Fame.


  • LornaHansonForbes likes this

"....What is it?"

"The stuff that dreams are made of."


#45 misswonderly3

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Posted Yesterday, 11:59 PM

The original ending would have been way noir-er, though. Would have overcome its lack of great visuals. 

 

No.

In a Lonely Place is all the better for its almost murder; if Dixon had actually killed Laurel, it would have been just another violent crime movie ending.

The film is more tragic because Laurel lives (saved by the telephone call that "would have meant so much" if it had come just a few minutes earlier), letting the horror of what might have happened, and what was almost certainly going to happen, sink in for both Dix and Laurel.  

Obviously there is no way Laurel can stay with him after that.

 

It's profoundly sad - the two of them going their separate ways, knowing that they "lived a few weeks while they loved" each other, but that the happiness they had during those few weeks could never return.

 

As for the idea that the film would somehow be more noirish if Dix had succeeded in actually strangling Laurel, I say, the idea of murder in film noir is over-rated. There are actually quite of lot of noirs in which murder is not the main event.


  • jamesjazzguitar, TheCid and cinemaspeak59 like this

"....What is it?"

"The stuff that dreams are made of."


#46 Vautrin

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Posted Yesterday, 10:21 PM

Oh yeah! You were probably watching the Animal Planet channel at the time, Vautrin.

 

Word is they've just started doing this sort'a thing too.

 

(...and their crisp but still a bit buttery Lassie-themed Chardonnay and their dry but not too dry Secretariat Sauvignon blanc are said to be among the first varietals to be sent out to their newly established membership)

The Galapagos Gewurztraminer is a bit on the sweet side,

but it ​pairs especially well with turtle or mock turtle soup.


  • Dargo likes this

Curse Sir Walter Raleigh, he was such a stupid get.


#47 Dargo

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Posted Yesterday, 05:28 PM

And kind of a goofy one, but marketing often is that way.

I thought I saw another channel that had jumped on a

similar deal, but I can't remember which one it was.

 

Oh yeah! You were probably watching the Animal Planet channel at the time, Vautrin.

 

Word is they've just started doing this sort'a thing too.

 

(...and their crisp but still a bit buttery Lassie-themed Chardonnay and their dry but not too dry Secretariat Sauvignon blanc are said to be among the first varietals to be sent out to their newly established membership)



#48 cigarjoe

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Posted Yesterday, 05:07 PM

Btw CJ, and regarding the following earlier comment of yours in this thread...

 

This would be one of the things I enjoy about Noirs, too. However in my case and being a native Angeleno, they're often a "time machine to my past" West Coast-style whenever the setting in them is L.A. 

 

And, your post today in the "I Just Watched" thread about that John Payne flick THE CROOKED WAY, and your usual excellent blog in which you supply a more detailed analysis of these sorts of films, had me thinking of your above comment as I perused them.

 

(...just wanted to tell ya)

I was just there (your home town) at the beginning of August. I had a bunch of spots to see on my bucket list. I went to Union Station checking out the tunnels to the platforms (end of The Narrow Margin, the waiting room and entrance beginning of The Crooked Way, Cry Danger, and others Union Station, and Neo Noir Marlowe. From there over to City Hall, lots of films have that iconic tower, too many to mention. Then went over to 3rd St. and visited the Bradbury Building, it was featured at the end of D.O.A., was in the first I,The Jury, and again in Marlowe, and Neo Noir Blade Runner. 

 

Then I paid my respects to Bunker Hill going to one of its last remaining vestiges the 3rd Street Tunnel head wall, many films used the tunnel, the North side of the East headwall was where Indus Arthur left the body of one of her victims in 1964's Angels Flight. Half a block away on Hill is the real Angels Flight, it was running, probably sort of a breakdown test for it's September re opening, It was featured in countless Noir, Criss Cross, The Hollow Triumph, The Unfaithful, The Money Trap, Act Of Violence, and others. 

 

I then headed over to the bridges over the L.A. River, plenty of films used them (quite a few like The Case Against O'hara used them as a stand in for either New York's FDR Drive or the West Side Drive). The concrete L.A. River was used for the end of Road Block, for Point Blank, for To Live And Die In L.A. We then walked down Broadway, then drove back to Chinatown and checked it out, drove over to Hollywood and then down Sunset Blvd, to the PCH and up it to Malibu, finished the day driving on Mulholland Dr. to catch the sunset and to see L.A. at night. 

 

Will definitely go back Dargo, a lot more to see.


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#49 Vautrin

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Posted Yesterday, 05:04 PM

Yeah, good point, Vautrin ol' boy!

 

Kind'a make ya wonder when the Wine Club is gonna get around to featuring a Charles Waldron/General Sternwood Pinot Noir, doesn't it?!...

 

vlcsnap-7324908.png

 

(...or maybe not)

The old boy looks like he could use a little jolt of something, maybe

stronger than vino. And I wonder if that hothouse atmosphere is

the best place to drink the expensive wine that ol' Sterny could afford.


Curse Sir Walter Raleigh, he was such a stupid get.


#50 Vautrin

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Posted Yesterday, 04:59 PM

Yeah, it's just a marketing scheme to bring in revenue...

And kind of a goofy one, but marketing often is that way.

I thought I saw another channel that had jumped on a

similar deal, but I can't remember which one it was.


Curse Sir Walter Raleigh, he was such a stupid get.


#51 Vautrin

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Posted Yesterday, 04:54 PM

Hey now, Vautrin.

 

Percy Helton wasn't ALWAYS that way in those movies, ya know! 

 

(...nope, sometimes he even picked out the correct culprit in a line-up)

 

;)

Can you imagine having to listen to ol' Percy's voice for a solid week,

or even one day? That's something that would drive me to drink. 

 

How about Claude Rains' uranium tinged wine in Notorious? A hint

of blackberry, vanilla, and atom bomb. 


  • Dargo likes this

Curse Sir Walter Raleigh, he was such a stupid get.


#52 Dargo

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Posted Yesterday, 04:52 PM

The idea of a specific wine to match a movie or director is a bit amusing

in the first place. And fine wines don't seem to go with the general

noir environment, except for the rich client who is thinking about hiring

some down at the heels PI. Maybe they should have gone with the TCM

Boilermaker Club for noirs. 

 

Yeah, good point, Vautrin ol' boy!

 

Kind'a makes ya wonder when the Wine Club is gonna get around to featuring a Charles Waldron/General Sternwood Pinot Noir, doesn't it?!...

 

vlcsnap-7324908.png

 

(...or maybe not)



#53 Hibi

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Posted Yesterday, 04:45 PM

The idea of a specific wine to match a movie or director is a bit amusing

in the first place. And fine wines don't seem to go with the general

noir environment, except for the rich client who is thinking about hiring

some down at the heels PI. Maybe they should have gone with the TCM

Boilermaker Club for noirs. 

 

Yeah, it's just a marketing scheme to bring in revenue...



#54 Dargo

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Posted Yesterday, 04:36 PM

It would take the edge off those lonely nights in a cheap room

with the iron bedstead and blinking neon sign just outside the

window. And winos would fit right in as the patsy or unreliable

witnesses that the killer runs past. 

 

Hey now, Vautrin.

 

Percy Helton wasn't ALWAYS that way in those movies, ya know! 

 

(...nope, sometimes he even picked out the correct culprit in a line-up)

 

;)



#55 Vautrin

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Posted Yesterday, 04:30 PM

Yes it doesn't match his zeitgeist.

 

From watching some of his spots, he looks a bit bemused, sort of a fish out of water as he tries to match a wine with say Hitchcock.   

The idea of a specific wine to match a movie or director is a bit amusing

in the first place. And fine wines don't seem to go with the general

noir environment, except for the rich client who is thinking about hiring

some down at the heels PI. Maybe they should have gone with the TCM

Boilermaker Club for noirs. 


  • Dargo likes this

Curse Sir Walter Raleigh, he was such a stupid get.


#56 TheCid

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Posted Yesterday, 04:28 PM

All the more reason to enjoy some nice wine while you're hanging around those dark alleys, etc.  ;)

Did anybody drink wine in Noir movies?  I always think of the main characters as drinking hard liquor or beer.



#57 Dargo

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Posted Yesterday, 04:25 PM

Btw CJ, and regarding the following earlier comment of yours in this thread...

...Another strong point for Noirs is that at the end of the 40s more and more location shooting was done and a lot of these at least New York  locations were places familiar to me as a kid growing up in New York and some are still around, some like the el exist only in Noir now, so seeing these films is like a time machine to my past.

 

This would be one of the things I enjoy about Noirs, too. However in my case and being a native Angeleno, they're often a "time machine to my past" West Coast-style whenever the setting in them is L.A. 

 

And, your post today in the "I Just Watched" thread about that John Payne flick THE CROOKED WAY, and your usual excellent blog in which you supply a more detailed analysis of these sorts of films, had me thinking of your above comment as I perused them.

 

(...just wanted to tell ya)



#58 Vautrin

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Posted Yesterday, 04:22 PM

All the more reason to enjoy some nice wine while you're hanging around those dark alleys, etc.  ;)

It would take the edge off those lonely nights in a cheap room

with the iron bedstead and blinking neon sign just outside the

window. And winos would fit right in as the patsy or unreliable

witnesses that the killer runs past. 


  • TheCid likes this

Curse Sir Walter Raleigh, he was such a stupid get.


#59 cigarjoe

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Posted Yesterday, 04:05 PM

All the more reason to enjoy some nice wine while you're hanging around those dark alleys, etc.  ;)

Well for film noir it will probably be a muscatel wrapped in a brown paper bag. no?


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#60 cigarjoe

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Posted Yesterday, 04:04 PM

Well you can't expect a guy who likely spends a lot of time in

dark alleys, fleabag hotels, and all night picture shows to

know about sunny vineyards.

Yes it doesn't match his zeitgeist.

 

From watching some of his spots, he looks a bit bemused, sort of a fish out of water as he tries to match a wine with say Hitchcock.   


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