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Kyle Kersten was a true friend of TCM. One of the first and most active participants of the Message Boards, “Kyle in Hollywood” (aka, hlywdkjk) demonstrated a depth of knowledge and largesse of spirit that made him one of the most popular and respected voices in these forums. This thread is a living memorial to his life and love of movies, which remain with us still.

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TCM spotlight on 'gay hollywood'-- June 2017


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#1 Jlewis

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Posted Yesterday, 06:45 PM

The Wizard of Oz is being shown tonight.

 

I guess... I guess... we can add that to our June schedule as well. At least that movie will please everybody, gay or straight. Bert Lahr proves he can stand up to anybody and be proud of who he is. There is lots of great bro-bonding between him, the Scarecrow and Tin Man. Also Judy singing "Over the Rainbow". Her death was shortly before Stonewall.

 

Makes sense.

 

After 1:30 AM Eastern standard time, we are treated to A Clockwork Orange. Oh... please. We can CERTAINLY see either Brokeback Mountain or Weekend at that hour in June. There is no way anybody can argue the former film is less worthy of its R rating than the other two.


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#2 Jlewis

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Posted 21 March 2017 - 10:08 PM

Probably not, but I added it into my "proposal" list many posts earlier.

 

Bottom line, I just need an excuse to get TCM to air 1969's Best Picture. Oh... and getting the two Godfathers on TCM would be nice too. Nothing "gay" there though.


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#3 jamesjazzguitar

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Posted 21 March 2017 - 07:41 PM

Is TCM showing Making Love,  the 1982 film?    I really enjoyed this film and I found it to be believable (of course what do I know!).

 

 

 


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#4 Jlewis

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Posted 21 March 2017 - 05:53 PM

April 7, 1970... interesting that the first "gay" Best Picture (pre-Moonlight and not counting Wings which just had a kiss scene) was presented by the gay friendliest star in Hollywood, famous for her AIDS activism in the '80s.

 


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#5 Jlewis

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Posted 21 March 2017 - 05:39 PM

But people like the sensors are never upset about violence- but show two men kissing and it's the end of the world

 
Yeah... Brokeback has that and would have to be shown in the middle of the night. I watched Midnight Cowboy again, probably for the tenth time. All kissing there is heterosexual, even in the dark movie theater when Joe is being kissed by a guy and we get shown this dream "insert" of a girl of his past instead. Some of the slang talk hasn't aged well, such the three letter F-word. In my proposed schedule, I thought of switching this around with Sunday Bloody Sunday, this being a better choice for a 10PM slot.
 
I dunno... what do you think? This one...

 

 

... before this one? Here is the original 1969 trailer which is tamer than the reissue one I initially posted.

 

 

friday june 2, 2017
 
ben-hur: a tale of the christ (1925) with ramon novarro - replace with two shorter Ramon Novarro flix that aren't any more "gay" but fit better.
*The Pagan (1929)
*Mata Hari (1931)
*Queen Christina (1933), continuing after Mata Hari with Garbo at her most lesbian-ish despite falling for John Gilbert
storm at daybreak (1933) with kay francis - move at another day because I like these pre-code films even if they have little material to chew on
 
8PM prime time: spotlight on John Schlesinger
*Billy Liar (1963) - moved from the other day
After 10 PM (due to Brenda Vacarro's and Glenda Jackson's bare bosoms and Jon Voight's bare bottom, plus everybody smoking weed):
*Midnight Cowboy (1969)
*Sunday Bloody Sunday (1971)

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#6 jaragon

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Posted 21 March 2017 - 05:20 PM

Considering the fact that TCM is airing Psycho at the time I am posting this and has Peeping Tom scheduled next... and the fact that I saw Psycho uncut on network TV in the early '80s even though it was aired much, much later than TCM is airing it now... there should be absolutely NO problem with TCM airing Brokeback Mountain, Midnight Cowboy, The Celluloid Closet & company. If a core of TCM fans are in a state of shock and outage, they can just switch the channel to The 700 Club (featuring The Mummy) until the films finish and The Hound Who Thought He Was a Raccoon gets repeated later. (Even though only the raccoon is heterosexual in that one. The hound is most affectionate with his bro-buddy until a female raccoon intervenes.)

But people like the sensors are never upset about violence- but show two men kissing and it's the end of the world


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#7 Jlewis

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 08:07 PM

Considering the fact that TCM is airing Psycho at the time I am posting this and has Peeping Tom scheduled next... and the fact that I saw Psycho uncut on network TV in the early '80s even though it was aired much, much later than TCM is airing it now... there should be absolutely NO problem with TCM airing Brokeback Mountain, Midnight Cowboy, The Celluloid Closet & company. If a core of TCM fans are in a state of shock and outage, they can just switch the channel to The 700 Club (featuring The Mummy) until the films finish and The Hound Who Thought He Was a Raccoon gets repeated later. (Even though only the raccoon is heterosexual in that one. The hound is most affectionate with his bro-buddy until a female raccoon intervenes.)


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#8 jaragon

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Posted 14 March 2017 - 10:46 AM

Here you go, jaragon: the history that The Celluloid Closet overlooked.

 

This was THE feature that started the boom back in December 1971 (seven months before Deep Throat). Note we get interviews from the heterosexual couples who flocked to see it here. Plus Joe Cage, mentioned a few posts down.

 

 

Here is a lengthier history. Just talk. No pictures. Yet some Victorians reading this thread should watch this video cautiously since it does get rather anatomical in detail. Straight star Jaimie Gillis (famous in The Opening of Misty Beethoven, considered the "Citizen Kane" of seventies heterosexual porn) is also featured. Since he died in 2010, this video must go back a few years.

 

Thanks for posting this- I can imagine a longer version with clips from the films mentioned.  Jerry Douglas did make some very good movies. This must have been made in late 90's.  They do mention poor Joey Stefano whose tragic story would make an interesting but depressing movie.


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#9 Jlewis

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Posted 13 March 2017 - 11:07 PM

Here you go, jaragon: the history that The Celluloid Closet overlooked.

 

This was THE feature that started the boom back in December 1971 (seven months before Deep Throat). Note we get interviews from the heterosexual couples who flocked to see it here. Plus Joe Cage, mentioned a few posts down.

 

 

Here is a lengthier history. Just talk. No pictures. Yet some Victorians reading this thread should watch this video cautiously since it does get rather anatomical in detail. Straight star Jaimie Gillis (famous in The Opening of Misty Beethoven, considered the "Citizen Kane" of seventies heterosexual porn) is also featured. Since he died in 2010, this video must go back a few years.

 


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#10 jaragon

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Posted 13 March 2017 - 05:46 PM

Although TCM is dedicated to theatrical releases of yesteryear, movies and television are so interconnected with the same production companies involved. For example, Columbia Pictures/Screen Gems was behind Uncle Arthur's show Bewitched in the 1960s and Disney/Touchstone produced Golden Girls in the 1980s, which also had landmark gay episodes. The problem with The Celluloid Closet was that it focused exclusively on mainstream (not X-rated or television produced) theatrical films up to the early nineties. The material made before the 1960s was all relevant, but a lot changed by 1971, the official year Sunday Bloody Sunday was released in this country, Boys In The Sand became ground zero for gay porn and All In The Family's famous episode featured a gay character being Archie Bunker's friend. Suddenly all areas of entertainment were impacted and each market on big and small screens operated at its own speed.

 

I do wish TCM showed more films after the 1970s for this type of retrospective since censorship was so great prior to this time that the material in older films is too subdued. I mean... nobody thinks of Cat On The Hot Tin Roof as much of a "gay" film because everything is so under the radar and nebulous. We just see that Paul Newman's Brick suddenly realizes Maggie the Cat is alive and closes the bedroom door shut so the couple can start pumping out the grandchildren. Also we have that curious transitional period after Hollywood discovered same sex relations were interesting enough to the public, when some films like Victim (1961) and Midnight Cowboy (1969) were progressive while others like The Detective and The Sergeant (1968) were definitely not.

"The Sergeant" is specially problematic- it doesn't even make sense - I mean up to that point Rod Steiger thought he was straight- he should have gotten together with the Brando character from " Reflections of a Golden Eye" but at least that crazy movie does make sense.   I think the makers of "The Celluloid Closet" were aiming for a more mainstream wider audience. A history of gay porn and how it reflected both pre and post Stonewall gay live would be interesting.


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#11 Jlewis

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Posted 12 March 2017 - 06:25 PM

I liked "Milk"- James Franco is specially adorable in it but it did not moved me like the documentary did.  A very powerful film.  I thought they had shown "The Celluloid Closet" which by now needs an update.  A tv theme documentary on the history of gays in television would be interesting- from Uncle Arthur to Kevin on "Riverdale" talk about how things have changed.

 

Although TCM is dedicated to theatrical releases of yesteryear, movies and television are so interconnected with the same production companies involved. For example, Columbia Pictures/Screen Gems was behind Uncle Arthur's show Bewitched in the 1960s and Disney/Touchstone produced Golden Girls in the 1980s, which also had landmark gay episodes. The problem with The Celluloid Closet was that it focused exclusively on mainstream (not X-rated or television produced) theatrical films up to the early nineties. The material made before the 1960s was all relevant, but a lot changed by 1971, the official year Sunday Bloody Sunday was released in this country, Boys In The Sand became ground zero for gay porn and All In The Family's famous episode featured a gay character being Archie Bunker's friend. Suddenly all areas of entertainment were impacted and each market on big and small screens operated at its own speed.

 

I do wish TCM showed more films after the 1970s for this type of retrospective since censorship was so great prior to this time that the material in older films is too subdued. I mean... nobody thinks of Cat On The Hot Tin Roof as much of a "gay" film because everything is so under the radar and nebulous. We just see that Paul Newman's Brick suddenly realizes Maggie the Cat is alive and closes the bedroom door shut so the couple can start pumping out the grandchildren. Also we have that curious transitional period after Hollywood discovered same sex relations were interesting enough to the public, when some films like Victim (1961) and Midnight Cowboy (1969) were progressive while others like The Detective and The Sergeant (1968) were definitely not.


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#12 jaragon

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Posted 12 March 2017 - 04:17 PM

Even the movie Milk had time for protests in the streets and... opera.

 

TCM did show The Life and Times of H.M. already, but they can show the more recent film too. Also The Celluloid Closet

I liked "Milk"- James Franco is specially adorable in it but it did not moved me like the documentary did.  A very powerful film.  I thought they had shown "The Celluloid Closet" which by now needs an update.  A tv theme documentary on the history of gays in television would be interesting- from Uncle Arthur to Kevin on "Riverdale" talk about how things have changed.


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#13 TopBilled

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Posted 12 March 2017 - 03:45 PM

I've been enjoying the lively conversation that has been occurring in this thread. I hope TCM's programmers are checking it/reading it.

 

Of course, it's great they're doing a month-long spotlight in June. I'm glad. It will be interesting to watch the on-air hosting and presentation of the films, though I think some of the selections could have been "stronger."


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"You've had a few hours given back to you from life. A few hours in which to change your minds and your hearts. When you came into the grounds of this inn, you came into a place as it was a year ago today. You were in your own time, but the house and garden and Gwyneth and I are in the time of last year. The day the bomb hit. When you go away and walk up the road you will have spent a night in an inn. But if you look back from the crest of the hill, the halfway house will not be here...but if you remember, it will be as you remember a forgotten snatch of song. It will be a picture before your eyes. Gone before you realize it is there. Or an echo in the hidden places of your mind. But you have been here...and the world is what you make it." -- Mervyn Johns, THE HALFWAY HOUSE.


#14 Jlewis

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Posted 12 March 2017 - 02:15 PM

Even the movie Milk had time for protests in the streets and... opera.

 

TCM did show The Life and Times of H.M. already, but they can show the more recent film too. Also The Celluloid Closet


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#15 jaragon

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Posted 12 March 2017 - 12:47 PM

Yeah... I visited Florence too, back in 1989 when there was less security surrounding David. You could even take pictures of him then. He wasn't under copyright until more recently.

 

In regards to The Brotherhood, I think there are too many gay vampire movies, many milked before like Dracula's Daughter and The Hunger especially.

 

I could also see a late night airing of Kinsey (2004), but here is a key problem: this retrospective isn't supposed to be about sex. (This is exactly why so many conservative politicians are on the war path against gay rights, because they can't distinguish the sex-part from anything else.) Movies presented should be more about relationships overall and acceptance by others for being different. Negative representations should be shown strictly from a historical perspective, like with Reflections of a Golden Eye representing the era and all of its restrictions.

 

For James Whale, Gods and Monsters (1998) is a natural fit and I should have included it. Nothing that would bother most viewers apart a fleeting peekaboo group nude-by-the-pool shot in a dream/memory sequence. They could follow this with The Bride of Frankenstein (1935). Most of these recent movies would be rated PG or PG-13 instead of R had the censors not been so concerned about non "heteronormal" activity.

 

Fassbinder's Fox and His Friends is a great all-around picture for this kind of thing. Although I do still consider it more R rated material and, thus, a late night show, all of the nudity is confined to a brief bedroom scene and a bathhouse that doesn't show any actual physical contact between patrons. We saw a nude scene from this already on TCM when it aired a documentary series a few years back called The Story of Film: An Odyssey with Robert Osbourne interviewing the compiler/director Mark Cousins beforehand.

 

However this movie is all about the story of one man trying to be accepted by others, but struggling in a German gay culture-within-a-culture that shares the same prejudices and social superiority status mirroring the rest of society. The film did get criticism for being too negative a portrait, especially since the gay rights movement was only getting started in 1974 when it was made and many activists were still pushing for more optimistic portraits of gay life then. I especially like the scene when the two guys can't allow an Arab friend... er, hustler maybe?... into a Holiday Inn in Morocco for racial reasons, despite the head guard being the same race! (That memorable bit part was by Eli Hedi ben Salem of Ali: Fear Eats the Soul.)

I agree with you than gay cinema should be more than just about sex


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#16 Jlewis

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Posted 12 March 2017 - 12:41 PM

Yeah... I visited Florence too, back in 1989 when there was less security surrounding David. You could even take pictures of him then. He wasn't under copyright until more recently.

 

In regards to The Brotherhood, I think there are too many gay vampire movies, many milked before like Dracula's Daughter and The Hunger especially.

 

I could also see a late night airing of Kinsey (2004), but here is a key problem: this retrospective isn't supposed to be about sex. (This is exactly why so many conservative politicians are on the war path against gay rights, because they can't distinguish the sex-part from anything else.) Movies presented should be more about relationships overall and acceptance by others for being different. Negative representations should be shown strictly from a historical perspective, like with Reflections of a Golden Eye representing the era and all of its restrictions.

 

For James Whale, Gods and Monsters (1998) is a natural fit and I should have included it. Nothing that would bother most viewers apart a fleeting peekaboo group nude-by-the-pool shot in a dream/memory sequence. They could follow this with The Bride of Frankenstein (1935). Most of these recent movies would be rated PG or PG-13 instead of R had the censors not been so concerned about non "heteronormal" activity.

 

Fassbinder's Fox and His Friends is a great all-around picture for this kind of thing. Although I do still consider it more R rated material and, thus, a late night show, all of the nudity is confined to a brief bedroom scene and a bathhouse that doesn't show any actual physical contact between patrons. We saw a nude scene from this already on TCM when it aired a documentary series a few years back called The Story of Film: An Odyssey with Robert Osbourne interviewing the compiler/director Mark Cousins beforehand.

 

However this movie is all about the story of one man trying to be accepted by others, but struggling in a German gay culture-within-a-culture that shares the same prejudices and social superiority status mirroring the rest of society. The film did get criticism for being too negative a portrait, especially since the gay rights movement was only getting started in 1974 when it was made and many activists were still pushing for more optimistic portraits of gay life then. I especially like the scene when the two guys can't allow an Arab friend... er, hustler maybe?... into a Holiday Inn in Morocco for racial reasons, despite the head guard being the same race! (That memorable bit part was by Eli Hedi ben Salem of Ali: Fear Eats the Soul.)


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#17 jaragon

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Posted 12 March 2017 - 12:04 PM

Gage/Kincaid is a director of mainstream B-movies as well, so he would be an OK film professional to interview. I did enjoy reading the short wikipedia piece on him. (No pictures, folks, so it is safe to check out.)

 

I have to look up all of these other names I have never heard of. Should Dave Anthony be a Star of the Month?

 

 

Yeah, Heston emphasized the agony part but left out much of the ecstasy. Of course, we know nothing of Michelangelo's private life except that Eve and other ladies on the Sistine Chapel don't look terribly feminine and are rather beefy in the shoulders, suggesting he wasn't intimate with all that many ladies. His version of David certainly proved he had plenty of experience studying male anatomy.

I had the chance to study David up close when I visited Florence and yes Michaelangelo had a real eye for masculine beauty- hey he was the Joe Gage of the Renaissance ;)


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#18 jaragon

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Posted 12 March 2017 - 12:00 PM

David DeCoteau would be a good choice for special guest programmer. He made one good gay indie film " Leather Jacket Love Story" and is very prolific director of low budget horror and sci fi movies. His signature style is the cute boy in their white briefs cinema. His best movie in this genre is the vampire frat boy thriller " The Brotherhood"https://youtu.be/i77b-455apk


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#19 Jlewis

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Posted 12 March 2017 - 11:42 AM

Gage/Kincaid is a director of mainstream B-movies as well, so he would be an OK film professional to interview. I did enjoy reading the short wikipedia piece on him. (No pictures, folks, so it is safe to check out.)

 

I have to look up all of these other names I have never heard of. Should Dave Anthony be a Star of the Month?

 

Interesting choices- but apart from the male nudity there is nothing gay about "Planet of the Apes"- Heston of course did play Michaelangelo as sexless gay man in "The Agony and the Ecstasy"

 

Yeah, Heston emphasized the agony part but left out much of the ecstasy. Of course, we know nothing of Michelangelo's private life except that Eve and other ladies on the Sistine Chapel don't look terribly feminine and are rather beefy in the shoulders, suggesting he wasn't intimate with all that many ladies. His version of David certainly proved he had plenty of experience studying male anatomy.


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#20 jaragon

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Posted 12 March 2017 - 11:32 AM

The name sounded vaguely familiar but I had to look him up. (See here: https://en.wikipedia...iki/Tim_Kincaid ) Oh yeah, have him sit with Ben M. and say "CAGED with Eleanor Parker inspired me to make CELLBLOCK #9 and BAD GIRLS DORMITORY."

 

Although I am sure KANSAS CITY TRUCKING COMPANY is a very influental film in the history of seventies cinema a.k.a. "working men trilogies", I seriously doubt TCM can get away with that even in the wee hours of the night. I think WEEKEND and FOX AND HIS FRIENDS are enough nudity-wise without going the next level.

 

Who would you suggest as a visiting star? Conner Habib?

Gage is better than average porn director specially the film he made for Titan- my choice for special guest programmer would be David Anthony - his best performances are bit too intense for TCM even after midnight ;)


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