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#41 Arturo

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Posted 01 July 2017 - 12:46 PM

I think Moyers has hit upon the reason that the GOP is so effective at courting voters that will enable a party to go ahead with policies that are directly against their own best interests. They have masterfully been playing the public for suckers for years now and sadly I don't see it coming to an end anytime soon because of the diabolical plan to keep dumbing down America.


This is the old "Divide and Conquer" working like a charm, as it has for a couple thousand years at least. So poor and middle class whites have more in common with poor and middle class persons of color, with economic issues more than anything. But they get played with the Race Card, and fall for it. Decades of this has them predisposed to believe that the system is set up to help minorities with entitlements, etc. So they vote against their own economic self-interest due to resentment over this. Played to perfection.
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#42 Bogie56

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Posted 01 July 2017 - 08:53 AM

The other day I was talking with a guy I have known for years.  He told me he had been in a car accident and the "Democrat" was at fault.  However, the white police officer did not ticket either one of them.  Apparently both were entering a center lane from the two outside ones and question is who was there first.

Regardless, I asked how he knew it was a Democrat and he replied because he was black.  I replied that one of our US senators is black and a Republican.  No response.  

Later we were discussing veterans benefits and I pointed out that by far the Democrats have done more than the Republicans to improve them.  He started shouting at that point about it being a lie and false, etc.  So I walked away.  (We both receive VA benefits, but neither for a mental condition - all physical).

This guy has a post-high school education and had professional jobs his entire life.  

But, he also epitomizes the Trump/Republican supporter.

 

Incidentally, I have serious questions about the use of "uneducated" by many people when referring to Trump/Republican supporters. The vast majority have a high education and technically that is educated.  Referring to them as uneducated is elitism and discriminatory.

 

Replace 'uneducated' with 'brainwashed' or even 'braindead.'

I fear it is going to take a Lonsesome Rhodes moment by Donald Trump to convince his supporters that he really regards them as stupid and easily duped.  I have to give him credit for trying.  He did say he could shoot someone and get away with it.  But that was not strong enough a confession on his part to turn away his ardent supporters.  He needs to be caught gloating about profiting at their expense.


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#43 TheCid

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Posted 01 July 2017 - 08:39 AM

Why the Obamacare Repeal Effort Will Not Die-

 

".....When Republicans propose huge tax cuts for the wealthy while simultaneously cutting health benefits for the poor and the working and middle classes, or when they propose a bill that drives up premiums and deductibles while shredding the safety net, the logical result would be a revolt.

 

Instead, these folks keep coming back to the party, which is why the GOP can keep coming back to its Draconian health care plan....

 

Yet it isn’t the economy, stupid, or health care reform that drives these voters to Republicanism. It is their perception of the march of history. They have come to believe that they are a persecuted white majority, and that grievance supersedes everything else, including their own health insurance. Republicans count on that...

 

“Make America Great Again” is a euphemism for “Make America White Again.” It is no coincidence that Trump’s most enthusiastic supporters are white, male, uneducated and evangelical — people for whom history is moving in the wrong direction. They are Trump’s political superfecta...

 

Symbolically, Obamacare represented change, government interference, social engineering by pointy heads and uncertainty. It was yet one more thing that would push the glorious past farther away.

There is a strange poignancy in this. People will continue to vote enthusiastically for the party that will strip them of their health care so long as that party promises to turn back the clock....

 

http://billmoyers.co...t-will-not-die/

 

The other day I was talking with a guy I have known for years.  He told me he had been in a car accident and the "Democrat" was at fault.  However, the white police officer did not ticket either one of them.  Apparently both were entering a center lane from the two outside ones and question is who was there first.

Regardless, I asked how he knew it was a Democrat and he replied because he was black.  I replied that one of our US senators is black and a Republican.  No response.  

Later we were discussing veterans benefits and I pointed out that by far the Democrats have done more than the Republicans to improve them.  He started shouting at that point about it being a lie and false, etc.  So I walked away.  (We both receive VA benefits, but neither for a mental condition - all physical).

This guy has a post-high school education and had professional jobs his entire life.  

But, he also epitomizes the Trump/Republican supporter.

 

Incidentally, I have serious questions about the use of "uneducated" by many people when referring to Trump/Republican supporters. The vast majority have a high school education and technically that is educated.  Referring to them as uneducated is elitism and discriminatory.


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#44 Bogie56

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Posted 01 July 2017 - 05:40 AM

Why the Obamacare Repeal Effort Will Not Die-

 

".....When Republicans propose huge tax cuts for the wealthy while simultaneously cutting health benefits for the poor and the working and middle classes, or when they propose a bill that drives up premiums and deductibles while shredding the safety net, the logical result would be a revolt.

 

Instead, these folks keep coming back to the party, which is why the GOP can keep coming back to its Draconian health care plan....

 

Yet it isn’t the economy, stupid, or health care reform that drives these voters to Republicanism. It is their perception of the march of history. They have come to believe that they are a persecuted white majority, and that grievance supersedes everything else, including their own health insurance. Republicans count on that...

 

“Make America Great Again” is a euphemism for “Make America White Again.” It is no coincidence that Trump’s most enthusiastic supporters are white, male, uneducated and evangelical — people for whom history is moving in the wrong direction. They are Trump’s political superfecta...

 

Symbolically, Obamacare represented change, government interference, social engineering by pointy heads and uncertainty. It was yet one more thing that would push the glorious past farther away.

There is a strange poignancy in this. People will continue to vote enthusiastically for the party that will strip them of their health care so long as that party promises to turn back the clock....

 

http://billmoyers.co...t-will-not-die/

 

 

I think Moyers has hit upon the reason that the GOP is so effective at courting voters that will enable a party to go ahead with policies that are directly against their own best interests.  They have masterfully been playing the public for suckers for years now and sadly I don't see it coming to an end anytime soon because of the diabolical plan to keep dumbing down America.


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#45 mr6666

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Posted 01 July 2017 - 12:45 AM

Pence/Preibus meeting with 'Freedon Caucus'-

 

"“Nobody seems to know how Pence discovered where the House Freedom Caucus was meeting. … They wanted to plot their next move in secret; to avoid leaks, no aides, other lawmakers or White House officials were told of their location.

Not long after they had gathered, however, the door was flung open and in marched Pence. He was accompanied by Trump’s chief of staff, Reince Priebus, and neither man was smiling. …

 

‘I was the Freedom Caucus before the Freedom Caucus existed,’ Pence told them, his voice rising, according to multiple people who were in the room. ‘Don’t try to tell me this bill isn’t conservative enough.'”

 

http://www.liberalam...-confrontation/


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"A small elephant is not a rabbit."


#46 mr6666

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Posted 01 July 2017 - 12:14 AM

Why the Obamacare Repeal Effort Will Not Die-

 

".....When Republicans propose huge tax cuts for the wealthy while simultaneously cutting health benefits for the poor and the working and middle classes, or when they propose a bill that drives up premiums and deductibles while shredding the safety net, the logical result would be a revolt.

 

Instead, these folks keep coming back to the party, which is why the GOP can keep coming back to its Draconian health care plan....

 

Yet it isn’t the economy, stupid, or health care reform that drives these voters to Republicanism. It is their perception of the march of history. They have come to believe that they are a persecuted white majority, and that grievance supersedes everything else, including their own health insurance. Republicans count on that...

 

“Make America Great Again” is a euphemism for “Make America White Again.” It is no coincidence that Trump’s most enthusiastic supporters are white, male, uneducated and evangelical — people for whom history is moving in the wrong direction. They are Trump’s political superfecta...

 

Symbolically, Obamacare represented change, government interference, social engineering by pointy heads and uncertainty. It was yet one more thing that would push the glorious past farther away.

There is a strange poignancy in this. People will continue to vote enthusiastically for the party that will strip them of their health care so long as that party promises to turn back the clock....

 

http://billmoyers.co...t-will-not-die/

 

 


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"A small elephant is not a rabbit."


#47 TheCid

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Posted 30 June 2017 - 03:53 PM

Trump now calling for immediate repeal of ACA (Obamacare) with NO replacement until sometime in the future.  Considering how difficult it has been to get House to pass AHCA and Senate has yet to pass BHCA, there is no possibility a replacement for ACA would be enacted until the Dems control House, Senate and White House again.

 

In addition, repealing ACA without a replacement would create a health care crisis of extraordinary proportions across America.

 

Once again Trump has shown how stupid, low intelligence, ill-informed, inattentive and incapable of learning he is.

I'm sure his base and some wealthy political organizations will love him for this, but they fit the description as well.


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#48 TheCid

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Posted 30 June 2017 - 03:46 PM

The Washington Post has a map today of the worst hit States by repeal.  They are of course Trump states.

And the voters and elected officials of those states are too dumb to realize it.


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#49 TheCid

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Posted 30 June 2017 - 03:44 PM

Wow you're full of the same BS spin as the leaders of the GOP as it relates to the ACA:   I said the GOP might work to FIX what both parties agree needs to be fixed but NOT repeal. 

 

If the GOP Congress passes a repeal ONLY bill that Trump signs,  it will be disasters for the GOP House members in all but the most Red states\districts.   Ryan and McConnell understand this which is why,  at this time,  there is NO bill for Trump to sign.

Would also hurt some GOP senators, especially in 2020.



#50 TheCid

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Posted 30 June 2017 - 03:42 PM

While that (letting the ACA remain and fail on its own) might be plan B for the GOP it will hurt them politically big time.

 

Even right-leaning forks that disliked Obama\Dems and the ACA will see what the GOP is doing as a political stunt and it would cost them in the 2018 House elections.    

 

To me the better option for the GOP is too just fix those items that even moderate Dems feel need to be fixed and pass a fix ACA bill. Yea, that will hurt the GOP with the 'you must repeal the ACA' part of their base but not as much as doing nothing. 

 

Of course maybe not,  but then either way these GOP representatives are in really hot water (e.g. likely to face defeat in the GOP primary).

In the long run, it probably wouldn't hurt the GOP with the extremist base because they have no where else to go.  They will vote Republican no matter who wears the label and the Trumpists will vote for whoever he endorses.

There might be people running in primaries from their right, but doubt it would be very successful.



#51 Bogie56

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Posted 30 June 2017 - 03:32 PM

You got it;  That is the key reason why a just-repeal bill wouldn't be accepted even by right-leaning 'hicks' who disliked the ACA (mostly because they didn't understand it).

 

Once these folks felt the pain of a just-repeal bill many might finally wake up that while the ACA was indeed flawed the GOP didn't have any better plans and \ or solutions.   All the GOP had was hot air.   (of course it may be wishful thinking that enough of these folks would wake up to NOT vote GOP in 2018).

 

It fits the Trump MO.  Screw those who trust in you the most.


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#52 Bogie56

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Posted 30 June 2017 - 02:40 PM

Trump promised this day one.  Do you think they will start to twig that is was all a big con?


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#53 jamesjazzguitar

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Posted 30 June 2017 - 02:27 PM

The Washington Post has a map today of the worst hit States by repeal.  They are of course Trump states.

 

You got it;  That is the key reason why a just-repeal bill wouldn't be accepted even by right-leaning 'hicks' who disliked the ACA (mostly because they didn't understand it).

 

Once these folks felt the pain of a just-repeal bill many might finally wake up that while the ACA was indeed flawed the GOP didn't have any better plans and \ or solutions.   All the GOP had was hot air.   (of course it may be wishful thinking that enough of these folks would wake up to NOT vote GOP in 2018).


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#54 Bogie56

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Posted 30 June 2017 - 02:22 PM

Wow you're full of the same BS spin as the leaders of the GOP as it relates to the ACA:   I said the GOP might work to FIX what both parties agree needs to be fixed but NOT repeal. 

 

If the GOP Congress passes a repeal ONLY bill that Trump signs,  it will be disasters for the GOP House members in all but the most Red states\districts.   Ryan and McConnell understand this which is why,  at this time,  there is NO bill for Trump to sign.

 

The Washington Post has a map today of the worst hit States by repeal.  They are of course Trump states.



#55 jamesjazzguitar

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Posted 30 June 2017 - 02:19 PM

I like the new idea of just repealing big chunks of the ACA in the short term and dealing with the rest of it later after an incremental repealing of ACA drives the democrats nuts. :lol:

 

Wow you're full of the same BS spin as the leaders of the GOP as it relates to the ACA:   I said the GOP might work to FIX what both parties agree needs to be fixed but NOT repeal. 

 

If the GOP Congress passes a repeal ONLY bill that Trump signs,  it will be disasters for the GOP House members in all but the most Red states\districts.   Ryan and McConnell understand this which is why,  at this time,  there is NO bill for Trump to sign.



#56 NipkowDisc

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Posted 30 June 2017 - 02:05 PM

While that (letting the ACA remain and fail on its own) might be plan B for the GOP it will hurt them politically big time.

 

Even right-leaning forks that disliked Obama\Dems and the ACA will see what the GOP is doing as a political stunt and it would cost them in the 2018 House elections.    

 

To me the better option for the GOP is too just fix those items that even moderate Dems feel need to be fixed and pass a fix ACA bill. Yea, that will hurt the GOP with the 'you must repeal the ACA' part of their base but not as much as doing nothing. 

 

Maybe some voters so intent at repealing the ACA has woken up and discovered they were played by the GOP for the last 7 years (played in the sense that the GOP could pass healthcare reform that provided around the same level of coverage at lower cost);  These voters might forgive their GOP representative if that representative now 'does the right thing'.

 

Of course maybe not,  but then either way these GOP representatives are in really hot water (e.g. likely to face defeat in the GOP primary).

I like the new idea of just repealing big chunks of the ACA in the short term and dealing with the rest of it later after an incremental repealing of ACA drives the democrats nuts. :lol:


"okay, so we're moving right along, folks" -al pacino, dog day afternoon


#57 Bogie56

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Posted 30 June 2017 - 01:04 PM

While that (letting the ACA remain and fail on its own) might be plan B for the GOP it will hurt them politically big time.

 

Even right-leaning forks that disliked Obama\Dems and the ACA will see what the GOP is doing as a political stunt and it would cost them in the 2018 House elections.    

 

To me the better option for the GOP is too just fix those items that even moderate Dems feel need to be fixed and pass a fix ACA bill. Yea, that will hurt the GOP with the 'you must repeal the ACA' part of their base but not as much as doing nothing. 

 

Maybe some voters so intent at repealing the ACA has woken up and discovered they were played by the GOP for the last 7 years (played in the sense that the GOP could pass healthcare reform that provided around the same level of coverage at lower cost);  These voters might forgive their GOP representative if that representative now 'does the right thing'.

 

Of course maybe not,  but then either way these GOP representatives are in really hot water (e.g. likely to face defeat in the GOP primary).

 

I agree with all that you have said here.  If the GOP do nothing then they should expect the Dems to campaign on the idea that the GOP are incapable of doing anything.  They are not fit to govern.  Give us the reigns and we will fix what needs to be fixed and everyone stays insured.  The downside to this will be not so many billions in tax breaks for the rich and perhaps not as much spent on the military.  Why should people suffer and be deprived of social necessities just to feed the military industrial complex and billionaires?


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#58 jamesjazzguitar

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Posted 30 June 2017 - 12:56 PM

Read an interesting article advancing theory that McConnell actually wants current House and Senate health care bills to fail.  Then they can blame all health and insurance problems in future on Obamacare. 

Whereas, it Trumpcare is passed the GOP will own it along with all the problems that will be created.  Not to mention the endless reporting on all those who have been hurt by it, who lost coverage, who had increased premiums or loss of benefits, etc.

 

Also read an article about the South and Heartland being most adversely affected by climate change. Trumpland.

Much of it related to increased health problems caused by increased heat, lack of water, enviromental changes, etc.

 

While that (letting the ACA remain and fail on its own) might be plan B for the GOP it will hurt them politically big time.

 

Even right-leaning forks that disliked Obama\Dems and the ACA will see what the GOP is doing as a political stunt and it would cost them in the 2018 House elections.    

 

To me the better option for the GOP is too just fix those items that even moderate Dems feel need to be fixed and pass a fix ACA bill. Yea, that will hurt the GOP with the 'you must repeal the ACA' part of their base but not as much as doing nothing. 

 

Maybe some voters so intent at repealing the ACA has woken up and discovered they were played by the GOP for the last 7 years (played in the sense that the GOP could pass healthcare reform that provided around the same level of coverage at lower cost);  These voters might forgive their GOP representative if that representative now 'does the right thing'.

 

Of course maybe not,  but then either way these GOP representatives are in really hot water (e.g. likely to face defeat in the GOP primary).


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#59 Bogie56

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Posted 30 June 2017 - 12:17 PM

From the Washington Post ...

 

 

The Plum Line •  Opinion Don’t sugarcoat this. Trump just called for 32 million people to lose health coverage. Trump's latest tweet blew up his own scam. By Greg Sargent  •  Read more »


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#60 Hibi

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Posted 30 June 2017 - 10:53 AM

So if Pence leaves first, Trump will appoint his successor, who will pardon him once he is forced out. Just like Agnew/Nixon/Ford.

 

 

LOL. I'm sure they have a plan in place.............


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