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Kyle Kersten was a true friend of TCM. One of the first and most active participants of the Message Boards, “Kyle in Hollywood” (aka, hlywdkjk) demonstrated a depth of knowledge and largesse of spirit that made him one of the most popular and respected voices in these forums. This thread is a living memorial to his life and love of movies, which remain with us still.

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the disturbing IDEAL world of "Leave it to Beaver" (classic tv!)


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#41 TheCid

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Posted 15 March 2017 - 09:26 AM

But double dipping the same actress for two different girlfriends for the same character would be a bit much. 

It was a differnt era.  Doubt anyone paid that much attention back then as it would have been months, if not years, between the episodes.  Also, screen time would have actually been fairly brief.

 Now we can see two episodes every day so much easier to pick up on these things.

Wish I could remember the blonde's name as she was in several of them with different names.



#42 DownGoesFrazier

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Posted 15 March 2017 - 09:09 AM

If you watch the ending credits and then  web search for the actors, you will find that some played more than one role.  This was typical for the period as they made so little money, they had to be able to play multiple roles.  I assume the producers and directors also preferred working with a known actor even if the roles were different.

There is one blonde, don't remember the name, who showed up with different names in some of the LITB's

Same thing happens with Perry Mason TV shows. Example:  Harry Jackson.

But double dipping the same actress for two different girlfriends for the same character would be a bit much. 



#43 TheCid

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Posted 15 March 2017 - 09:01 AM

Another thmg. I saw an episode this morning in which Wally took out a girl named Myra. I swear that she's the same actress who played Mary Ellen Rogers.

If you watch the ending credits and then  web search for the actors, you will find that some played more than one role.  This was typical for the period as they made so little money, they had to be able to play multiple roles.  I assume the producers and directors also preferred working with a known actor even if the roles were different.

There is one blonde, don't remember the name, who showed up with different names in some of the LITB's

Same thing happens with Perry Mason TV shows. Example:  Harry Jackson.



#44 darkblue

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Posted 15 March 2017 - 08:42 AM

Another thmg. I saw an episode this morning in which Wally took out a girl named Myra. I swear that she's the same actress who played Mary Ellen Rogers.

 

Wally Cleaver, Mary Ellen Rogers, Eddie Haskell, Clarence Rutherford, Whitey Whirney, Gilbert Bates, Miss Landers.......

 

Ahh, but for the days of Anglo-only named characters on TV.

 

Though I guess Larry Mondello - for all he looked like a chubby little anglo - must've been Mediterranean on his father's side (or something).


A guy once told a chick he didn't agree with her and that's why feminism is needed - he shouldn't be allowed to do that.


#45 DownGoesFrazier

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Posted 15 March 2017 - 08:36 AM

Don't forget the baby alligator that they hid in the basement that bit Ward on the hand when he discovered it.

Another thmg. I saw an episode this morning in which Wally took out a girl named Myra. I swear that she's the same actress who played Mary Ellen Rogers.



#46 darkblue

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Posted 15 March 2017 - 03:44 AM

No pets? Wrong. There was a rabbit, goldfish, pigeons, and that's just off the top of my head.

 

Have you ever actually pet a goldfish?


A guy once told a chick he didn't agree with her and that's why feminism is needed - he shouldn't be allowed to do that.


#47 Princess of Tap

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Posted 14 March 2017 - 01:11 PM

No pets? Wrong. There was a rabbit, goldfish, pigeons, and that's just off the top of my head.

Don't forget the baby alligator that they hid in the basement that bit Ward on the hand when he discovered it.

#48 DownGoesFrazier

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Posted 14 March 2017 - 01:01 PM

Thanks for all the interesting replies.

 

I wasn't really referring to June Cleaver's house-cleaning skills (or the fact that she looks so neat and unruffled in every single scene).

I was stunned by the SET itself.

This is lovely, lovely, set-building and dressing---to the "nth" degree.

It might not have looked so spiffy in color as it does in black and white.

But these people have SERIOUS décor.

I mean it isn't REAL---no piles of messy bills, no vacuum cleaner messing up TV reception, etc.

 

On the topic of a "spotless" house on television and in movies, which is quite a different thing.

 

This really ruins many older and brand new movies and tv-series for me.

No pets.

No maid.

No cook.

No cleaner, or cleaning crew!

But a SPOTLESS, sometimes massively many-roomed McMansion.

Add this to a MOM of today that is carefully dressed, manicured, and either coming in from Yoga class or on her way out to a "power job."

The children, usually fussy, bored teens, do not lift a finger to cook or clean, and probably never have.

WHO IS CLEANING THESE HOMES?

 

The shows of today are even more "fantasy" than "Leave it to Beaver"

No pets? Wrong. There was a rabbit, goldfish, pigeons, and that's just off the top of my head.


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#49 Bogie56

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Posted 14 March 2017 - 10:05 AM

Nothing stays the same forever.  Even the Cleavers.


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#50 Sepiatone

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Posted 14 March 2017 - 10:03 AM

Thanks for all the interesting replies.

 

I wasn't really referring to June Cleaver's house-cleaning skills (or the fact that she looks so neat and unruffled in every single scene).

I was stunned by the SET itself.

This is lovely, lovely, set-building and dressing---to the "nth" degree.

It might not have looked so spiffy in color as it does in black and white.

But these people have SERIOUS décor.

I mean it isn't REAL---no piles of messy bills, no vacuum cleaner messing up TV reception, etc.

 

On the topic of a "spotless" house on television and in movies, which is quite a different thing.

 

This really ruins many older and brand new movies and tv-series for me.

No pets.

No maid.

No cook.

No cleaner, or cleaning crew!

But a SPOTLESS, sometimes massively many-roomed McMansion.

Add this to a MOM of today that is carefully dressed, manicured, and either coming in from Yoga class or on her way out to a "power job."

The children, usually fussy, bored teens, do not lift a finger to cook or clean, and probably never have.

WHO IS CLEANING THESE HOMES?

 

The shows of today are even more "fantasy" than "Leave it to Beaver"

 

I wouldn't go so far as to claim that nobody ever lived in such a house in America.

 

I have a friend who grew up in a good sized colonial home that his publisher's warehouse manager father had built  for them, and WAS always kept neat and clean.  But of course, his Mom didn't do so with remaining so neatly groomed at the end of the day either.

 

And, unbeknownst to you, you hit the core of it all with one word.  "Fantasy".

 

These ARE after all, TV shows, NOT "reality" competitions or documentaries.  The "Housewives" of wherever aren't REAL,  Any more than Curly Howard being hit in the head with a plank with a rusty nail in it.

 

To ME, the biggest offender of "reality" was THE COSBY SHOW.  And NOT because it featured an African-American who had a "professional" career as most of the show's defenders, when it's reality came into question claimed, but rather that as parents, Cliff and Clair Huxtable were NEVER WRONG or made ANY MISTAKES.   And as a parent, with many friends who are also parents, and even my OWN parents will testify, that is NOT the "reality".

 

 

Sepiatone


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#51 Vautrin

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Posted 13 March 2017 - 04:52 PM

I always liked Ward's spacious study with that nice desk and

comfy chair, and the extensive library. I'll bet Ward even read

a few of those books. If I was him, I'd make that a no go zone

for Eddie Haskell.


Curse Sir Walter Raleigh, he was such a stupid get.


#52 NipkowDisc

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Posted 13 March 2017 - 04:07 PM

Thanks for all the interesting replies.

 

I wasn't really referring to June Cleaver's house-cleaning skills (or the fact that she looks so neat and unruffled in every single scene).

I was stunned by the SET itself.

This is lovely, lovely, set-building and dressing---to the "nth" degree.

It might not have looked so spiffy in color as it does in black and white.

But these people have SERIOUS décor.

I mean it isn't REAL---no piles of messy bills, no vacuum cleaner messing up TV reception, etc.

 

On the topic of a "spotless" house on television and in movies, which is quite a different thing.

 

This really ruins many older and brand new movies and tv-series for me.

No pets.

No maid.

No cook.

No cleaner, or cleaning crew!

But a SPOTLESS, sometimes massively many-roomed McMansion.

Add this to a MOM of today that is carefully dressed, manicured, and either coming in from Yoga class or on her way out to a "power job."

The children, usually fussy, bored teens, do not lift a finger to cook or clean, and probably never have.

WHO IS CLEANING THESE HOMES?

 

The shows of today are even more "fantasy" than "Leave it to Beaver"

but the beaver did overload the bathtub that one time. :)


"okay, so we're moving right along, folks" -al pacino, dog day afternoon


#53 papyrusbeetle

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Posted 13 March 2017 - 03:51 PM

Thanks for all the interesting replies.

 

I wasn't really referring to June Cleaver's house-cleaning skills (or the fact that she looks so neat and unruffled in every single scene).

I was stunned by the SET itself.

This is lovely, lovely, set-building and dressing---to the "nth" degree.

It might not have looked so spiffy in color as it does in black and white.

But these people have SERIOUS décor.

I mean it isn't REAL---no piles of messy bills, no vacuum cleaner messing up TV reception, etc.

 

On the topic of a "spotless" house on television and in movies, which is quite a different thing.

 

This really ruins many older and brand new movies and tv-series for me.

No pets.

No maid.

No cook.

No cleaner, or cleaning crew!

But a SPOTLESS, sometimes massively many-roomed McMansion.

Add this to a MOM of today that is carefully dressed, manicured, and either coming in from Yoga class or on her way out to a "power job."

The children, usually fussy, bored teens, do not lift a finger to cook or clean, and probably never have.

WHO IS CLEANING THESE HOMES?

 

The shows of today are even more "fantasy" than "Leave it to Beaver"

 


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#54 Princess of Tap

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Posted 13 March 2017 - 02:45 PM

Not in my part of Canada (Toronto). The only term I recall hearing as a kid was housewife.

Which is what my Mom was - until Dad died, and then she plunged herself back into the work force again for the first time in almost 30 years. I was ready to drop out of university but Mom insisted, despite her grieving, that I finish my schooling. She made it a hell of a lot easier for me. It wasn't easy for her to go back "out there" again but she adapted. My mother, a former housewife or stay-at-home mom, whatever term you want to use, had guts.



Tom-- I was in college and the same thing happened to us.

My mother hadn't worked in more than 20 years, but she pitched in and ran the family business after my father died.

Having lived through the Depression and World War II, she certainly was not a weakling.
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#55 hamradio

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Posted 13 March 2017 - 10:18 AM

Ever heard of men saying house cleaning is no big deal (whom never done any).  I've done a lot of it, men saying that to their wives should be flogged!

 

Sometimes I think dust / dirt grows instead of accumulate. :angry:



#56 Sepiatone

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Posted 13 March 2017 - 09:48 AM

I have to agree with Lawrence about "stay at home mom" being a more recent phrase.  Back in the "day" they were just called either "housewives" or "Moms".

 

By the late '60's and into the '70's there were jokes about referring to them as "Domestic Engineers".  Then for kicks, some called themselves "Domestic Godesses".

 

What does seem to rankle me a bit are those self righteous wankers who insist a "stay at home Mom" is a matter of personal choice  and that "Working Mothers"  prefer  to work instead of doing so out of necessity.  I'm sure there's a certain percentage for which that's true, but overall I think the latter case the majority.

 

 

Sepiatone


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I started out with NOTHING...and still have most of it left!


#57 TheCid

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Posted 13 March 2017 - 09:47 AM

Elaboration on housewives, maids, etc.

Perhaps it was a Southern thing, but back before the 70's most African-American women could not get jobs other than maids or cooks.  They also worked cheap as none were covered by minimum wage or anything else.  Not at all a fair system, but it did make it possible for middle class housewives to have maids for a day or two per week.  No Hazel types at all.

As for middle class, I would say we were middle, maybe a little lower, if you consider doctors, lawyers and such as upper middle.  I think in the 50's that is where they fit.

We had maid for two days per week, but my mother also sold Avon as it used to be sold.  Door to door until you got a clientale built up and then you went to their homes-and took a lot of phone calls.  She was also involved in a lot of organizations.  Guess you would call that networking now.  My father was a mill worker, first line supervisor so to speak.

Ironically she was offered a job at the post office and could have easily become a postmaster, but my father forbade it.  Her "job" was to take care of me and my sister and she could "peddle" her Avon when she had time.  Ironically he never knew how much time she devoted to selling Avon and other activities.

Regardless, the maid was to help with the heavy work, emphasis on help with.

My friends mothers did the following:  ran the family plant nursery, nurse, teacher, rural mail delivery, sold insurance, but many (most?) stayed home.  Actually I don't know what a lot of my friends mothers did come to think of it.  Have to remember my friends and I were the forefront of the Baby Boom - lots of kids to take care of.  There were no daycares, nurseries, etc.  



#58 TomJH

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Posted 13 March 2017 - 09:17 AM

 

Perhaps stay-at-home mom was more common in Canada back in the day than it was here.

 

Not in my part of Canada (Toronto). The only term I recall hearing as a kid was housewife.

 

Which is what my Mom was - until Dad died, and then she plunged herself back into the work force again for the first time in almost 30 years. I was ready to drop out of university but Mom insisted, despite her grieving, that I finish my schooling. She made it a hell of a lot easier for me. It wasn't easy for her to go back "out there" again but she adapted. My mother, a former housewife or stay-at-home mom, whatever term you want to use, had guts.


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#59 Sepiatone

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Posted 13 March 2017 - 08:12 AM

I remember once at a New Year's party, some cutie, at midnight, came up and kissed me.  When she was done, some clown was stupidly grinning at me and said, "Yeah man, that's my old lady."  Not being able to let it pass by I replied, "she looks GOOD for her age!"  ;)

 

 

Sepiatone


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I started out with NOTHING...and still have most of it left!


#60 darkblue

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Posted 13 March 2017 - 12:00 AM

I always got a kick out of the term 'the old lady.' I'm going bowling tonight, I don't care what my old lady says.

 

We always used that term for our moms when we were growing up.

 

It wasn't until we started watching outlaw biker movies that it occurred to us we could use it for our wives or girlfriends.


A guy once told a chick he didn't agree with her and that's why feminism is needed - he shouldn't be allowed to do that.





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