We're excited to present a great new set of boards to classic movie fans with tons of new features, stability, and performance.

If you’re new to the message boards, please “Register” to get started. If you want to learn more about the new boards, visit our FAQ.

Register

If you're a returning member, start by resetting your password to claim your old display name using your email address.

Re-Register

Thanks for your continued support of the TCM Message Boards.

X

Kyle Kersten was a true friend of TCM. One of the first and most active participants of the Message Boards, “Kyle in Hollywood” (aka, hlywdkjk) demonstrated a depth of knowledge and largesse of spirit that made him one of the most popular and respected voices in these forums. This thread is a living memorial to his life and love of movies, which remain with us still.

X

Jump to content


Photo

Dark Shadows, the daytime soap (1966-1971)


  • Please log in to reply
10 replies to this topic

#1 TopBilled

TopBilled

    Film Writing and Selected Journalism

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 38,827 posts

Posted 22 March 2017 - 07:30 PM

Subtext is in the eye of the beholder.

 

Not exactly. Sometimes it is in the script, indicated in the stage direction. It's not something explicit in the dialogue but the actors are told to play it as if they are referencing something else. Of course, the audience (and critics) can debate if they pulled it off and if it really meant such-and-such.


"The truth? What good is the truth if it destroys us all..?" -- Mady Christians in ALL MY SONS (1948).


#2 jamesjazzguitar

jamesjazzguitar

    There is nothing as bad as something not so bad

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 18,235 posts
  • LocationCalifornia

Posted 22 March 2017 - 06:33 PM

It's all about subtext- yes the character might be chasing women in public but who knows what they did with the manservant at night

 

Subtext is in the eye of the beholder.


  • rayban likes this

#3 TopBilled

TopBilled

    Film Writing and Selected Journalism

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 38,827 posts

Posted 22 March 2017 - 06:16 PM

It's all about subtext- yes the character might be chasing women in public but who knows what they did with the manservant at night

 

Yes, that's what I think too. 


  • rayban likes this

"The truth? What good is the truth if it destroys us all..?" -- Mady Christians in ALL MY SONS (1948).


#4 jaragon

jaragon

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 850 posts

Posted 22 March 2017 - 05:44 PM

Couldn't one say that any master \ manservant relationship has a potential gay subtext?     E.g. Eric Blore and Edward Horton often were cast in the manservant role and their mannerisms fit the stereotype but I don't view there being any type of actual relationship involved between the master and manservant.    In the vast majority of the cases the master is chasing females rather aggressively in these films.  

 

Of course the manservant could be gay.   E.g. is this the type of job a working class gay man would love to have;  helping (shopping for, and dressing of etc..) a handsome,  younger rich man?       

 

But I don't see this with Willie since he didn't take on the job voluntarily. 

It's all about subtext- yes the character might be chasing women in public but who knows what they did with the manservant at night


  • rayban likes this

#5 jaragon

jaragon

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 850 posts

Posted 22 March 2017 - 05:42 PM

I have watched a few episodes online and I didn't see any gay subtext on the show. I would have to watch that particular episode.

I don't know what Bram Stoker had in mind, I read the book decades ago, but in some movies and books, vampirism is sexualized. The vampire is a sexual predator, who transforms himself usually into a wolf, the violent representation of a womanizer. 

A vampire attacking a man may definitely be a homoerotic image, but I think it depends on how the scene is written and staged.

Dark Shadows has one of my favorite intros of all time.

There is new biography of Bram Stoker that suggest he was probably gay.


  • rayban likes this

#6 jamesjazzguitar

jamesjazzguitar

    There is nothing as bad as something not so bad

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 18,235 posts
  • LocationCalifornia

Posted 22 March 2017 - 01:21 PM

There's a caretaker who discovers his crypt and finds out he's a vampire. So Barnabas bites Willie on the neck and makes Willie his slave to watch over him during the daytime hours. 

 

Couldn't one say that any master \ manservant relationship has a potential gay subtext?     E.g. Eric Blore and Edward Horton often were cast in the manservant role and their mannerisms fit the stereotype but I don't view there being any type of actual relationship involved between the master and manservant.    In the vast majority of the cases the master is chasing females rather aggressively in these films.  

 

Of course the manservant could be gay.   E.g. is this the type of job a working class gay man would love to have;  helping (shopping for, and dressing of etc..) a handsome,  younger rich man?       

 

But I don't see this with Willie since he didn't take on the job voluntarily. 


  • jaragon and rayban like this

#7 Arsan404

Arsan404

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 3,094 posts

Posted 21 March 2017 - 11:14 PM

I have watched a few episodes online and I didn't see any gay subtext on the show. I would have to watch that particular episode.

I don't know what Bram Stoker had in mind, I read the book decades ago, but in some movies and books, vampirism is sexualized. The vampire is a sexual predator, who transforms himself usually into a wolf, the violent representation of a womanizer. 

A vampire attacking a man may definitely be a homoerotic image, but I think it depends on how the scene is written and staged.

Dark Shadows has one of my favorite intros of all time.


  • TopBilled and jaragon like this

#8 TopBilled

TopBilled

    Film Writing and Selected Journalism

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 38,827 posts

Posted 20 March 2017 - 07:02 PM

I never got to watch this but the show has a huge cult following so they must have done something right- but imagine most of the fans saw the series as kids and it brings back fond memories.  What the is Barnabas gay subtext about?

 

There's a caretaker who discovers his crypt and finds out he's a vampire. So Barnabas bites Willie on the neck and makes Willie his slave to watch over him during the daytime hours. 


  • rayban likes this

"The truth? What good is the truth if it destroys us all..?" -- Mady Christians in ALL MY SONS (1948).


#9 jaragon

jaragon

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 850 posts

Posted 20 March 2017 - 05:29 PM

Anyone a fan of the original series?

 

I watched a few episodes last night from the Leviathans storyline. They are on Hulu-- this particular story is from early 1970. With the exception of classy Joan Bennett who understands the point of subtlety to convey emotions, most of them scream their lines and are way too over the top. And these are performers who went on to success in other things, so I think the problem is with the director encouraging them to overplay it.

 

I love what the writing suggests, but the hammy acting and the silly werewolf costume and obviously low budget make it very amateurish to me. I can see why people find it entertaining, but not as a serious form of television.

 

And though they have Jonathan Frid's Barnabas supposedly pining after his late Josette (and her various incarnations), there's such a strong gay subtext with the character, it nearly overshadows everything else.

 

Thoughts..?

I never got to watch this but the show has a huge cult following so they must have done something right- but imagine most of the fans saw the series as kids and it brings back fond memories.  What the is Barnabas gay subtext about?



#10 Swithin

Swithin

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 12,645 posts
  • LocationNew York City

Posted 20 March 2017 - 04:09 PM

I remember Dark Shadows, though I didn't watch it, probably because it was on during the day. I did watch Strange Paradise, a Canadian horror soap, on around 11 pm, that was inspired by Dark Shadows. (Many episodes online).

 

https://en.wikipedia...trange_Paradise

 

 

hqdefault.jpg

 

 

 

hqdefault.jpg

Raxl and Quito

 


  • TopBilled and LawrenceA like this

#11 TopBilled

TopBilled

    Film Writing and Selected Journalism

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 38,827 posts

Posted 20 March 2017 - 11:47 AM

Anyone a fan of the original series?

 

I watched a few episodes last night from the Leviathans storyline. They are on Hulu-- this particular story is from early 1970. With the exception of classy Joan Bennett who understands the point of subtlety to convey emotions, most of them scream their lines and are way too over the top. And these are performers who went on to success in other things, so I think the problem is with the director encouraging them to overplay it.

 

I love what the writing suggests, but the hammy acting and the silly werewolf costume and obviously low budget make it very amateurish to me. I can see why people find it entertaining, but not as a serious form of television.

 

And though they have Jonathan Frid's Barnabas supposedly pining after his late Josette (and her various incarnations), there's such a strong gay subtext with the character, it nearly overshadows everything else.

 

Thoughts..?


  • rayban likes this

"The truth? What good is the truth if it destroys us all..?" -- Mady Christians in ALL MY SONS (1948).





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users