We're excited to present a great new set of boards to classic movie fans with tons of new features, stability, and performance.

If you’re new to the message boards, please “Register” to get started. If you want to learn more about the new boards, visit our FAQ.

Register

If you're a returning member, start by resetting your password to claim your old display name using your email address.

Re-Register

Thanks for your continued support of the TCM Message Boards.

X

Kyle Kersten was a true friend of TCM. One of the first and most active participants of the Message Boards, “Kyle in Hollywood” (aka, hlywdkjk) demonstrated a depth of knowledge and largesse of spirit that made him one of the most popular and respected voices in these forums. This thread is a living memorial to his life and love of movies, which remain with us still.

X

Jump to content


Photo

Western Movie Rambles


  • Please log in to reply
8357 replies to this topic

#41 Fiddlers & Fighters

Fiddlers & Fighters

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 6 posts

Posted 27 March 2015 - 11:17 AM

UNFORGIVEN SPOILER:

The little prologue and epilogue shots of Eastwood's farm---shot along the horizon, mostly in dawn or dusk silhouhette---are for me the only really poetic shots in the whole picture.  But the closing shot had a curious moment where Eastwood's character, standing by the grave, literally disappears.  In light of that---the illness he experienced in the middle of the film (before he arrived in town) when he thought he was dying (here's my crazy idea)---is it possible Eastwood is suggesting he really did die and it's all a dream that follows...or his "ghost" that carries out the vengeance??  I realize that's highly unlikely but I do wonder why I have that sense from these shots.  Maybe I was hallucinating, lol.  However, I must admit I like my version better if it is wrong. :)

 

What an interesting theory, MissGoddess. I read somewhere that Eastwood wanted to 'bury the Western' with Unforgiven. It would take the 'vengeance of the west' theme found throughout the genre to a fascinating conclusion if it was indeed his ghost the entire time. I'm not sure that's what Eastwood intended, but now I'm sort of hoping so!



#42 movieman1957

movieman1957

    Chris

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 6,581 posts
  • LocationAnnapolis MD

Posted 27 March 2015 - 07:37 AM

HI April.

 

So lovely to see you again. I will say that never crossed my mind. I always thought the thing that transforms him is Freeman's death. Up til then he is being loyal to his wife's wishes but that changes it all for me.

 

You have the most interesting way of looking at things. Now I must see it with that in mind. There are parts I could do without. Frankly, I've never seen the whole point with Richard Harriss' character. It pads the story and except to show that Hackman is an equal opportunity thug I didn't get it.

 

I think it is one of those films that you like it or don't. There seems to be little middle ground.


Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana. 

G. Marx.


#43 MissGoddess

MissGoddess

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 22,749 posts
  • LocationHaleakaloha and Monument Valley

Posted 27 March 2015 - 02:10 AM

Hello, Everyone,

 

Chris/Tinker---I finally watched Unforgiven for the first time a few weeks ago.  I won't ever be a fan though I don't hate it outright.  I found it terribly underwhelming in light of its reputation. 

However I do have one question abuot it.  If I'm right, then the movie is at least interesting.  If, as I suspect, I'm totally off base, then I stand by my underwhelm-ment. 

 

UNFORGIVEN SPOILER:

The little prologue and epilogue shots of Eastwood's farm---shot along the horizon, mostly in dawn or dusk silhouhette---are for me the only really poetic shots in the whole picture.  But the closing shot had a curious moment where Eastwood's character, standing by the grave, literally disappears.  In light of that---the illness he experienced in the middle of the film (before he arrived in town) when he thought he was dying (here's my crazy idea)---is it possible Eastwood is suggesting he really did die and it's all a dream that follows...or his "ghost" that carries out the vengeance??  I realize that's highly unlikely but I do wonder why I have that sense from these shots.  Maybe I was hallucinating, lol.  However, I must admit I like my version better if it is wrong. :)


1-sophia-loren--150x150.jpg


#44 movieman1957

movieman1957

    Chris

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 6,581 posts
  • LocationAnnapolis MD

Posted 26 March 2015 - 09:16 PM

Hi Tinker. All are welcome.

 

I find my thoughts of the Ford films go along your line. Certain parts of those films tend to humanize characters that at times may not seem so human. Particularly, maybe, Wayne in "Rio Grande." A great many other westerns don't deal with it in the same way. 

 

You mentioned Audie Murphy and in "Night Passage" he gets a rare chance to be the bad guy. For a similar but more complex part check him out in "No Name On The Bullet." Though not all of them great most are at least entertaining.

 

We depart a little on Eastwood. I'm not a big fan of "Josey Wales." It, for me is too long. Mostly because I find the story comes to a halt when Sandra Locke shows up. However, "Unforgiven," assuming you mean Eastwood's film and not the nearly titled 1960 film, is more satisfying to me. I think the tension builds as it goes. It is not only his conflict with Hackman's character but the one in his own mind.

 

"The Fastest Gun Alive" is indeed a pretty good little film. If you get past Broderick Crawford being the fastest for awhile it does show off Ford's angst to great advantage. Clearly a man at war with himself.


Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana. 

G. Marx.


#45 tinker

tinker

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 8 posts

Posted 26 March 2015 - 07:45 PM

I hope you don't mind me joining in this conversation.

 

Thank you for posting your lists. I always find these fascinating because they often show a certain perspective that discussing individual films does not. I have not got a list as it changes depending on what films I have seen lately but I know the top ten would always contain the more romantic films. I don't mean necessarily the hero/heroine type romance but the ones where the creator is in love with the genre. which means certainly some of the earlier Ford's such as Wagonmaster and She Wore a yellow Ribbon are always at the top of the  list.

 

I find I cannot embrace some of the later films not so much not beause many of them are violent but because they can often have a sense of despair or disillusionment (to me at least). Yet at the same time The Outaw Josey Wales is one of my favourites but I can never bring myself to watch The Unforgiven  which I know is a favourite of many. I think that one might be on top of my list of films I hate.

 

I do find it interesting how The Man who Shot Liberty Valance seems to be on the top of most people's list. It seems to cross over all perspectives of western films.

 

I have been able to see lately a few of the older, not so classic films. Its hard to get them in Australia. I was surprised how good The fastest Gun Alive was.  Glenn Ford always seems to do that worries man role really well. I got hold of The Sheepman recently too and that was much better than I remembered it As well as Night Passage which made me start searching for Audie Murphy films.

 

Thanks again fro posting the lists. They gave me some iteresting views to think about

 

 

 

 



#46 movieman1957

movieman1957

    Chris

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 6,581 posts
  • LocationAnnapolis MD

Posted 26 March 2015 - 07:55 AM

Have you ever posted your westerns rankings? If not, would you consider doing it?

 

I had done so a little while ago.  Instead of posting the entire list on the thread, I'll provide a link to my list:

 

http://letterboxd.co...esterns/detail/

I remember it now. Going through it again there are about 10 I haven't seen. The highest one is "Track Of The Cat." I started it one night didn't finish it and haven't gone back.

 

Surprisingly, I did watch "Once Upon A Time In The West" this weekend. I think it is a pretty good film but a bit long for my taste. Good score, good scenery and interestingly directed. (I have seen it before.)

 

Last night I saw "Terror In A Texas Town." To me it felt more like an extended TV episode of something. I found it really odd that even before the credits role they give you a hint of the climax. Scattered scenes throughout the movie during the credits seemed pretty weird. Didn't like the music. It was nice to see a Mexican family have a prominent part. Sterling Hayden was pretty good. Overall, I thought it was only fair.

 

"One Eyed Jacks" is one I started but the print on Amazon was bad enough I quit because it was so annoying.

 

We would have a different order. It is clear you like Leone. Thanks for giving the link.


Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana. 

G. Marx.


#47 Fiddlers & Fighters

Fiddlers & Fighters

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 6 posts

Posted 25 March 2015 - 10:52 PM

Thanks Frank!

 

That's a great list you got.

 

3 Bad Men is probably John Ford's greatest silent movie. Nice (and unexpected) pick.

 

There's something special about Liberty Valance, huh? A lot of it is Lee Marvin (in one of his best roles), but also of course Duke and Jimmy Stewart. So much of this movie is about the town of Shinbone. The focus on the town, its people and governance sets it apart from previous Ford westerns. I suppose My Darling Clementine is similar in that it's very much about a town, but it has the quintessential Monument Valley shots, giving it the classic 'Ford feel'.

 

I don't have a John Ford specific list, but I have a top 30 classic westerns one going. I'm still working on it, but what I have so far can be found here:

 

www.fiddlers-and-fighters.com/best-western-movies



#48 FrankGrimes

FrankGrimes

    Scott

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 10,865 posts
  • LocationHarrisburg, PA

Posted 25 March 2015 - 08:15 PM

Welcome to the board, Fiddlers & Fighters!

 

You can't go wrong with your top three choices.  My top three Ford westerns are The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance, 3 Bad Men, and The Searchers, in that order.

 

My overall Ford list can be found here:

 

http://letterboxd.co...hn-ford/detail/


  • rohanaka likes this

#49 Fiddlers & Fighters

Fiddlers & Fighters

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 6 posts

Posted 25 March 2015 - 06:23 PM

Favorite John Ford western?

 

I'm going to cop out and say it's a toss-up between three - The Searchers, The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance, and My Darling Clementine.

 

What about you guys?



#50 FrankGrimes

FrankGrimes

    Scott

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 10,865 posts
  • LocationHarrisburg, PA

Posted 24 March 2015 - 11:20 PM

Have you ever posted your westerns rankings? If not, would you consider doing it?

 

I had done so a little while ago.  Instead of posting the entire list on the thread, I'll provide a link to my list:

 

http://letterboxd.co...esterns/detail/


  • rohanaka likes this

#51 movieman1957

movieman1957

    Chris

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 6,581 posts
  • LocationAnnapolis MD

Posted 24 March 2015 - 03:30 PM

Sir Francis:

 

Have you ever posted your westerns rankings? If not, would you consider doing it?


Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana. 

G. Marx.


#52 Fiddlers & Fighters

Fiddlers & Fighters

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 6 posts

Posted 24 March 2015 - 03:16 PM

Thanks for posting Gun the Man Down. Looks great.



#53 FrankGrimes

FrankGrimes

    Scott

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 10,865 posts
  • LocationHarrisburg, PA

Posted 05 March 2015 - 10:31 PM

Howdy, Cowboy Chris -- I never heard of Reprisal!.  And, sadly, I don't have it recorded.

 

The other was "Gun The Man Down."

 

Now this is one I have watched.

 

It stars James Arness and Angie Dickinson.

 

And that's what really drew me to this western.

 

Directed by Andrew McLaglen it comes off as having the feel of a "Gunsmoke" episode gone wrong as Arness is one of the bad guys left behind after a bank robbery. It is not bad but it's not much better than fair. If you are looking to kill 80 minutes on a Saturday that might be a reason to see it but about the only one.

 

What I liked most about the film is that it's rather psychological.  I would have never guessed Arness being in such a western.  I currently have the film ranked #120 on my westerns list.  A list that is at 222.  So it's very much a middling pic.  Having said that, it's a film that surprised me.  I was not expecting Arness to play the character he does.

 



#54 movieman1957

movieman1957

    Chris

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 6,581 posts
  • LocationAnnapolis MD

Posted 02 March 2015 - 03:00 PM

Two westerns crossed my path lately to varying degrees of success.

 

One is a Columbia "B" picture called "Reprisal!" It stars Guy Madison as one who bought a ranch just outside of town but is pestered by three brothers who spend their time being racist, arrogant bullies. They hate the local Indians and have a hobby of making their lives miserable. One of the brothers does have a thing for one of the Indian girls and that annoys his brother. (The brothers are played by Edward Platt, Michael Pate and Wayne Mallory.) Madison is dragged, figuratively, into the fray by Felicia Farr. Later he is dragged, literally, through town on the way to his lynching. 

 

There is a twist about Madison that adds to the drama but the climax is resolved just a little too easily. All in all it is done well enough for the "B" level it is. (Caught it on the Westerns channel.)

 

The other was "Gun The Man Down." It stars James Arness and Angie Dickinson. Directed by Andrew McLaglen it comes off as having the feel of a "Gunsmoke" episode gone wrong as Arness is one of the bad guys left behind after a bank robbery. It is not bad but it's not much better than fair. If you are looking to kill 80 minutes on a Saturday that might be a reason to see it but about the only one.


Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana. 

G. Marx.


#55 FrankGrimes

FrankGrimes

    Scott

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 10,865 posts
  • LocationHarrisburg, PA

Posted 24 October 2014 - 11:35 AM

They are giving up or have given up what they want and when it comes down to it they are both scared of what awaits them.

 

You've got it.  The thing is, Will started to run, which is what George has done.  So, basically, George went ahead and did what Will was initially doing.  And George is haunted by his past, which is what Will feared would happen to him.  He and Amy could never be at peace.  George wasn't at peace.  In his mind, he was hiding out.  And he was, really.

 

The only difference there is that Ford really is on his own. The only help the town can give him is after the fact. They happily do that but he has to face that thing alone.  Cooper could get help if anyone would help him.

 

You are correct.  High Noon is more about the town and The Fastest Gun Alive is about Ford needing to stand up.



#56 movieman1957

movieman1957

    Chris

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 6,581 posts
  • LocationAnnapolis MD

Posted 24 October 2014 - 10:48 AM

That is a good comparison with "High Noon." Certainly one I had not considered. 

 

They are giving up or have given up what they want and when it comes down to it they are both scared of what awaits them. The only difference there is that Ford really is on his own. The only help the town can give him is after the fact. They happily do that but he has to face that thing alone.  Cooper could get help if anyone would help him.


Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana. 

G. Marx.


#57 FrankGrimes

FrankGrimes

    Scott

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 10,865 posts
  • LocationHarrisburg, PA

Posted 24 October 2014 - 10:21 AM

I'm really glad you enjoyed it. I think Ford is terrific.

 

I like Ford in just about everything.  I actually had a discussion with my brother about Ford at my niece's birthday party on Saturday.  He feels Ford is wooden.  I told him that he is.  But for some reason, I have always liked his steely presence.  He fits both film noir and westerns because of this.  He seems like a repressed volcano.  He has a burning inside.

 

The conflict between he and his wife seems completely genuine. One of my favorite scenes is the one where the woman argues with Glenn about the dress. His reaction really sums everything about his life for me.

 

That's a very good scene.  It all comes to a boil, right there.  That's the volcano I speak of.  George (Glenn Ford) has chosen to live the life his wife wants him to but his own feelings and wants are not the same.  He's not at peace with what he is and where he is in life.  You could say this is the life Will Kane (Gary Cooper in High Noon) is headed for with Amy (Grace Kelly).  He was also looking to do what she wanted and was to become a shopkeeper.

 

The only drawback to the film turns out to be the crux of the film but I can't imagine anyone being as obsessed with the reputation as is Crawford. Without though there is no film. It does. however, offer up the contrast with Ford's reaction to his lot in life.

 

It is rather silly.  Having said that, there are men who are that single-minded and need to be the best at what they do.  They can't accept someone being better.  "There's always someone faster".  Oh, the male ego.



#58 movieman1957

movieman1957

    Chris

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 6,581 posts
  • LocationAnnapolis MD

Posted 24 October 2014 - 07:41 AM

I'm really glad you enjoyed it. I think Ford is terrific. The conflict between he and his wife seems completely genuine. One of my favorite scenes is the one where the woman argues with Glenn about the dress. His reaction really sums everything about his life for me.

 

The only drawback to the film turns out to be the crux of the film but I can't imagine anyone being as obsessed with the reputation as is Crawford. Without though there is no film. It does. however, offer up the contrast with Ford's reaction to his lot in life.

 

I got one right!


  • rohanaka likes this

Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana. 

G. Marx.


#59 FrankGrimes

FrankGrimes

    Scott

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 10,865 posts
  • LocationHarrisburg, PA

Posted 23 October 2014 - 04:22 PM

Way to go, Cowboy Chris!  I greatly enjoyed The Fastest Gun Alive.  What a nice little western.  I love Glenn Ford and this film features a great character for Glenn to play.  Jeanne Crain looks absolutely beautiful as Glenn's stressed wife.  I believe this is the first time I have seen Broderick Crawford play a heavy in a western.  He brings the gusto.

 

The story is wonderful.  I love the themes at play, the fighting one's past, living up to one's father, the need to be a "man" and all the societal pressures and folly that come with that.

 

I was into the film right from the start. It kept my attention throughout.  And the ending is quite good.  I'd say this film falls into the "High Noon" category of "town conflict" oaters.  And I do like that kind of film.

 

 


  • rohanaka likes this

#60 movieman1957

movieman1957

    Chris

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 6,581 posts
  • LocationAnnapolis MD

Posted 17 October 2014 - 05:28 AM

Thanks Barb. Thanks to all 6 of you.


Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana. 

G. Marx.





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users