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Kyle Kersten was a true friend of TCM. One of the first and most active participants of the Message Boards, “Kyle in Hollywood” (aka, hlywdkjk) demonstrated a depth of knowledge and largesse of spirit that made him one of the most popular and respected voices in these forums. This thread is a living memorial to his life and love of movies, which remain with us still.

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TCM and Other Sources for Classic Film


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#2321 TopBilled

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Posted 06 July 2014 - 04:44 PM

Some leasing agreements require that TCM show a movie a certain number of times.    Other agreements require TCM to lease movies they don't wish to in order to get a movie TCM really wants.    

 

Therefore one shouldn't assume that just because TCM shows a movie often it is because they think a lot of their viewers like it.

 

Also,   those sequels where really poor quality productions.    So in this specific case I'm glad TCM doesn't show them.   Seeing them once was enough for me.    (the first one has Julie Adams and one can't go wrong there).

james,

 

I want to say something here because I keep seeing what you wrote repeated, and I do not think it should be used as a blanket statement. We do not know that the Universal horror films fall under this situation. It could very much be that TCM's programmers just went with the more well-known title and didn't dig deep or try to get the other titles/sequels because they were not interested in them.

 

And not every film that is overplayed is because of some license agreement. SUSPICION is very overplayed each year and that is because it's in the Turner Library, because it stars Cary Grant and Joan Fontaine, and because it has become their go-to Hitchcock title (that is, when they are not playing the other go-to Hitch title NORTH BY NORTHWEST).


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#2322 mr6666

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Posted 06 July 2014 - 04:37 PM

[...]  :rolleyes:

Edited by TCMModerator1, 06 July 2014 - 05:04 PM.
Edited post to remove abusive comment

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#2323 jamesjazzguitar

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Posted 06 July 2014 - 04:37 PM

Because imo it doesn't make alotta sense for tcm to have shown Creature From The Black Lagoon as many times as they have with at least not showing one of the two sequels, that's why.  :P For tcm to have scheduled Creature From The Black Lagoon as many times as they have they must think alotta their viewers like it. Maybe their viewers would like seein' them two follow-ups also.  :) ain't exactly rocket science.  :D

"Unchain me, tcm programmers, from the confines of my first feature...Florida awaits!"

 

 

Some leasing agreements require that TCM show a movie a certain number of times.    Other agreements require TCM to lease movies they don't wish to in order to get a movie TCM really wants.    

 

Therefore one shouldn't assume that just because TCM shows a movie often it is because they think a lot of their viewers like it.

 

Also,   those sequels where really poor quality productions.    So in this specific case I'm glad TCM doesn't show them.   Seeing them once was enough for me.    (the first one has Julie Adams and one can't go wrong there).



#2324 NipkowDisc

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Posted 06 July 2014 - 04:28 PM

You know, no one is forcing you to watch TCM.

 

So why sit here and complain about titles TCM never shows? Have you ever written to TCM to ask them why they don't program certain titles? Apparently not.

Because imo it doesn't make alotta sense for tcm to have shown Creature From The Black Lagoon as many times as they have with at least not showing one of the two sequels, that's why.  :P For tcm to have scheduled Creature From The Black Lagoon as many times as they have they must think alotta their viewers like it. Maybe their viewers would like seein' them two follow-ups also.  :) ain't exactly rocket science.  :D

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#2325 TopBilled

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Posted 06 July 2014 - 04:05 PM

Once again it's those darn TCM apologists who just keep coming back to disagree with all of those naysayers out there who dare attempt to say things that clearly are not the case.

 

Just because I have listed quotes from Charlie Tabesh does not mean that I am an apologist for TCM. I will stand up for the channel and defend the channel when I think others who post their opinions here as FACTS need to be addressed.

 

Let me ask you something. Do you think that in the 20 years since TCM has been around there has ever been discussions at the Atlanta office of TCM for showing commercials like AMC started to do? Because I really think that the Time Warner parent is quite satisfied to have at least one gold-plated channel in their offerings. I don't think any of their other channels have ever won a Peabody Award before. So I think, IMHO that Time Warner is happy with TCM and will allow the channel to continue to make their own decisions as far as programming and the exclusion of commercials.

Need to qualify a few items. First, TCM has ads, plenty of 'em, for DVDs and cruises and festivals and lions and tigers and bears oh my. It does not have what I call traditional ads (like an outside company trying to sell aspirin or hosiery in thirty seconds). 

 

Also, where did the term TCM apologist come from?  I laugh every time I read that-- because it's funny, while there is a ring of truth underscoring it.

 

Again, I am not against ads on TCM and its various platforms. I think the question is whether or not the films are interrupted with ads inserted during a film presentation.


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#2326 fxreyman

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Posted 06 July 2014 - 04:01 PM

I am tempted to launch a News thread in favor of commercials. Now that will easily reach 10,000 views in about two days.  I am kidding, of course...but I am not against some traditional advertising on the channel, even if I am in the minority on that opinion.  I am sure that if it ever happens, people will point up AMC as the prime example-- and then there will be others (again) defending TCM saying it is a necessary evil, because a programming executive said so. So we shall see...

 

Once again it's those darn TCM apologists who just keep coming back to disagree with all of those naysayers out there who dare attempt to say things that clearly are not the case.

 

Just because I have listed quotes from Charlie Tabesh does not mean that I am an apologist for TCM. I will stand up for the channel and defend the channel when I think others who post their opinions here as FACTS need to be addressed.

 

Let me ask you something. Do you think that in the 20 years since TCM has been around there has ever been discussions at the Atlanta office of TCM for showing commercials like AMC started to do? Because I really think that the Time Warner parent is quite satisfied to have at least one gold-plated channel in their offerings. I don't think any of their other channels have ever won a Peabody Award before. So I think, IMHO that Time Warner is happy with TCM and will allow the channel to continue to make their own decisions as far as programming and the exclusion of commercials.



#2327 speedracer5

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Posted 06 July 2014 - 03:56 PM

I am tempted to launch a News thread in favor of commercials. Now that will easily reach 10,000 views in about two days.  I am kidding, of course...but I am not against some traditional advertising on the channel, even if I am in the minority on that opinion.  I am sure that if it ever happens, people will point up AMC as the prime example-- and then there will be others (again) defending TCM saying it is a necessary evil, because a programming executive said so. So we shall see...

If the time ever came where TCM was forced to include traditional advertising, I'd hope they'd just schedule the commercials between films and not during them.  It breaks up the pacing of the film when they cut to a commercial in the middle of a car chase scene, for example. 

 

I don't mind when TCM airs commercials advertising new releases in the TCM shop.  The only commercials I ever remember enjoying was when TVLand first launched, back in '95? '96? and instead of regular commercials, they'd air old commercials from the 60s and 70s advertising products that were still available in current times, but they were vintage commercials.  I enjoyed those, they were funny and often had all the catchy slogans and jingles.  Not that I want commercials mind you, but if TCM had to resort to commercials in order to stay in business, it'd be fun if they could go that route and show old school commercials instead.  I don't think McDonalds would care if a 1970 Big Mac commercial aired as long as it brought in customers.


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#2328 TopBilled

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Posted 06 July 2014 - 03:51 PM

I definitely don't want to see TCM add commercials-- the lack of advertising is what makes TCM so much better than their competitors.  

I am tempted to launch a News thread in favor of commercials. Now that will easily reach 10,000 views in about two days.  I am kidding, of course...but I am not against some traditional advertising on the channel, even if I am in the minority on that opinion.  I am sure that if it ever happens, people will point up AMC as the prime example-- and then there will be others (again) defending TCM saying it is a necessary evil, because a programming executive said so. So we shall see...


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#2329 TopBilled

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Posted 06 July 2014 - 03:47 PM

Yes, I wondered the same thing. He is very keen on which threads need winding down. I also find it interesting that the moment one starts asking questions of him, he along with some others depart.

I am cutting back on the number of posts and voluntarily phasing out my participation on the message boards. There are some threads that remain important to me, and even if I am not posting on them, I will likely continue to read them. 


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#2330 speedracer5

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Posted 06 July 2014 - 03:45 PM

Well, with the Charles Tabesh comments re. TCMs business model, then the only way it would make better sense business wise, and bring in new viewers,.and make more revenue, is to start selling advertising. I don't think anyone here seriously wants that.

What DID happen to TBs new News thread? I wanted to see how far.along on it's goal of 10,000 views this new "controversial" thread was. Plus, what the topic was to be, other than a curtailment of activity here.

I definitely don't want to see TCM add commercials-- the lack of advertising is what makes TCM so much better than their competitors.  AMC I don't believe is a threat any more, they've strayed so far from American Movie Classics that I don't even think of watching a movie on that channel.  They take a 2 hour movie and make it last 3 hours.  Then, they air the same movie like 3 times IN A ROW.  One day they were showing all The Godfather movies in a row.  With all the commercials, it probably took all weekend to get through.  I remember when I was little, they used to show Marx Brothers movies on New Years Eve.  They used to show the Laurel and Hardy shorts Saturday morning.  Three Stooges was also aired recently.  Not any more.  I digress... I do not want to see TCM go by the way side.

 

I don't think ME-TV, Antenna TV and other channels of that ilk really provide any real competition to TCM.  Sure, ME-TV might be airing Plan 9 From Outer Space or something and TCM might be showing Apocalypse Now and ME-TV might "win" the timeslot; but that would only be for that particular time.  The offerings on those channels and the ones on TCM vary drastically that I don't think the smaller channels would end up causing TCM to go under or radically change their format.  ME-TV and Antenna TV I believe provide a replacement for channels like TVLand and Nick and Nite that went down the s---er (my censoring).  Personally, when I had those channels (I don't anymore, they're not on DISH) I used to watch it for reruns of old Nick at Nite shows that I loved when I was little. 

 

I've refrained from participating in this thread because it had derailed to a conversation I didn't want to participate in; however, now that it seems to be back on track, I wanted to put forth my opinion. 

 

Personally, for me, TCM more than gives me my money's worth and I'm satisfied with their scheduling.  Like I've stated on other threads, I don't watch the channel 24/7 and rarely watch it live.  Most of the programming I watch is stuff that I've recorded.  I also didn't have the channel for many years so I haven't been watching 20 years worth of programming.  Perhaps the issue isn't entirely with TCM, perhaps part of people's dissatisfaction with the channel is purely due to oversaturation--so much TCM has been watched that it can't impress anymore.  Just my opinion.


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#2331 TopBilled

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Posted 06 July 2014 - 03:43 PM

What DID happen to TBs new News thread? I wanted to see how far.along on it's goal of 10,000 views this new "controversial" thread was. Plus, what the topic was to be, other than a curtailment of activity here.

Hi Arturo...

 

The thread still exists on a Word file I created. As it was happening 'live,' I was saving my posts and the posts of others. Most of my current topics show up in various other threads. Thanks for your interest.


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#2332 AndyM108

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Posted 06 July 2014 - 03:33 PM

Yeah! Just who does tcm think their customer base is? The Cannes judging committee?

 

Well, if you go by the the actual number of films TCM shows in the respective genres, the actual customer base appears to consist of World War II veterans, aging cowboys, and singing tap dancers. :)  In many weeks you can count the number of foreign movies on one hand.


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#2333 fxreyman

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Posted 06 July 2014 - 03:29 PM

Well, with the Charles Tabesh comments re. TCMs business model, then the only way it would make better sense business wise, and bring in new viewers,.and make more revenue, is to start selling advertising. I don't think anyone here seriously wants that.

What DID happen to TBs new News thread? I wanted to see how far.along on it's goal of 10,000 views this new "controversial" thread was. Plus, what the topic was to be, other than a curtailment of activity here.

 

Yes, I wondered the same thing. He is very keen on which threads need winding down. I also find it interesting that the moment one starts asking questions of him, he along with some others depart.



#2334 Arturo

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Posted 06 July 2014 - 03:26 PM

"noun: business model;
a design for the successful operation of a business, identifying revenue sources, customer base, products, and details of financing."

-so again, just HOW is TCM's business model flawed??
and just what happened to the 'News' thread started yesterday that was to generate 10,000 VIEWS??

Well, with the Charles Tabesh comments re. TCMs business model, then the only way it would make better sense business wise, and bring in new viewers,.and make more revenue, is to start selling advertising. I don't think anyone here seriously wants that.

What DID happen to TBs new News thread? I wanted to see how far.along on it's goal of 10,000 views this new "controversial" thread was. Plus, what the topic was to be, other than a curtailment of activity here.
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#2335 jamesjazzguitar

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Posted 06 July 2014 - 03:20 PM

It's not as successful as it could be, because there are audiences/demographics they are not reaching. You can go back and read the previous posts in the thread where we have given examples of this.

 

I do not think we needed a definition. Most of us have access to dictionary dot com. LOL

 

Of course there are audiences/demographics that TCM isn't reaching.     To me the question is;  how can TCM expand its audience?

 

Reaching out to certain demographics could result in a net reducion of their overall audience.    

 

Look at the post by Primos and Fred;    They claim to watch TCM a lot less since TCM has changed too much.   

 

While I know what changes in TCM's programming I would like,  I have no idea if those changes would expand TCM's audience.   


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#2336 fxreyman

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Posted 06 July 2014 - 03:18 PM

What opinions? Tcm has shown Creature From The Black Lagoon multiple, multiple times but it hasn't dawned on them at all to show the two sequels? Tonite they are showing Jason and the Argonauts one of their often repeated beloved chestnuts. I like it. Talos going after them on account of a broach pin. :lol:  And Hercules? He's suppose to be a son of Zeus. How dare Talos begrudge a son of Zeus a broach pin. Screwy mythology there.  :D

 

You know, no one is forcing you to watch TCM.

 

So why sit here and complain about titles TCM never shows? Have you ever written to TCM to ask them why they don't program certain titles? Apparently not.



#2337 fxreyman

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Posted 06 July 2014 - 03:05 PM

It's not as successful as it could be, because there are audiences/demographics they are not reaching. You can go back and read the previous posts in the thread where we have given examples of this.

 

I do not think we needed a definition. Most of us have access to dictionary dot com. LOL

 

How do you know that TCM is NOT reaching the audiences/demographics they are not reaching?

 

What basis of knowledge do you have access to that would cause you to write this?

 

Every post made by someone who comments on the audience/demographics that TCM has is using pure conjecture.

 

And since TCM does not subscribe to the Nielsen Rating Services we may never know.

 

The only thing we know for sure is that TCM is offered as part of certain cable packages throughout the United States and that TCM is then available in a certain amount of homes.

 

I think I read somewhere once that TCM is available in 98 million households. That is a lot as far as I am concerned. Now as far as commenting on TCM's business model it bears repeating here once again:

 

From Vice President of Programming at TCM, Charlie Tabesh:

 

"Almost all of our revenue comes from our cable/satellite affiliates. As you suggest, that's very rare in the television world. As most people know, what seems to happen is that a channel starts out with a niche (A&E, AMC, Bravo, etc.), then once they have a certain level of distribution, they become much broader in order to attract more ad dollars. With AMC, once they added advertising it really dictated that they change their programming in order to attract audiences that advertisers wanted.

 

But one consequence of them doing that was that their loyal viewers were pretty upset, which led to a long period where a lot of people feared TCM would do the same thing - there were never any plans to do that on our end, but I actually think the outcry over AMC made us more committed than ever to keep it that way. The truth is there's just no way to do a lot of the programming that we do if the business model is based in any significant way on advertising (which makes it much more fun for us as programmers).

 

I don't think I explained that very well, but the end result is that being commercial-free makes our brand stronger; it also means we can take more chances and do things that we consider interesting and important, rather than trying to attract advertiser-friendly audiences. And playing films uncut and in their original aspect ratios also helps us establish ourselves as a network that truly cares about these films and their history (which we genuinely do).

 

Our business isn't at big as many of the ad-supported networks out there, so our budgets are smaller, but I think we do pretty well with what we have. As for the interstitial pieces, promos, introductions, website, they're all done at the network and they're consistently fantastic - they're essential to our brand and people that create them care deeply about the films and are extremely creative. And, of course, Robert Osborne is the most important of all, we're very lucky to have him."


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#2338 NipkowDisc

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Posted 06 July 2014 - 02:47 PM

It's not as successful as it could be, because there are audiences/demographics they are not reaching. You can go back and read the previous posts in the thread where we have given examples of this.

 

I do not think we needed a definition. Most of us have access to dictionary dot com. LOL

Yeah! Just who does tcm think their customer base is? The Cannes judging committee?  :lol:


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#2339 TopBilled

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Posted 06 July 2014 - 02:28 PM

 

 
"noun: business model;
a design for the successful operation of a business, identifying revenue sources, customer base, products, and details of financing."
 
-so again, just HOW is TCM's business model flawed??

 

It's not as successful as it could be, because there are audiences/demographics they are not reaching. You can go back and read the previous posts in the thread where we have given examples of this.

 

I do not think we needed a definition. Most of us have access to dictionary dot com. LOL


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#2340 mr6666

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Posted 06 July 2014 - 02:25 PM

 
"noun: business model;
a design for the successful operation of a business, identifying revenue sources, customer base, products, and details of financing."
 
-so again, just HOW is TCM's business model flawed??
and just what happened to the 'News' thread started yesterday that was to generate 10,000 VIEWS??

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