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Healthcare in America?


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#361 mrroberts

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Posted 02 October 2015 - 11:08 PM

 

 

.

 

Health insurance and managed care companies currently have profit margins of less than 4% as can be seen in graph at: http://www.forbes.co...nder-obamacare/

Average profit for all major trade sectors is: 7.84%. http://pages.stern.n...ile/margin.html. Newspapers have far greater profit margin than health insurance companies!

Looking at the sources for that information proves that it is total BS. That's equivalent to the oil/coal interests making "scientific"  claims that dispute globe warming and climate change.


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#362 SansFin

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Posted 02 October 2015 - 04:23 PM

I have worked in healthcare in four countries and have had extensive associated dealings with healthcare in three others.

 

It is obvious to me that Americans are blessed!

 

I feel that the pictures which hamradio posted are 'presentation' level in that the areas have obviously received recent cleaning and repair for the purposes of showing at its best. I worked in several hospitals and care facilities in Russia. None of them ever looked so good. What I have seen of facilities in England is little better. 

 

Cost of healthcare in America is high because Americans must pay for nearly all research and innovation because socialized medicine programs refuse to pay fair share. I have seen figures regarding one medication for treatment of side-effects of certain radiation treatment: more than twenty millions of dollars required to develop drug must be included in price of pills sold in America because prices in Canada, England and France can be only for direct manufacturing costs plus three percent. The amount of medical research performed in countries with socialized medicine is insignificant compared to American investment.

 

Health insurance and managed care companies currently have profit margins of less than 4% as can be seen in graph at: http://www.forbes.co...nder-obamacare/

Average profit for all major trade sectors is: 7.84%. http://pages.stern.n...ile/margin.html. Newspapers have far greater profit margin than health insurance companies!


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#363 jamesjazzguitar

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Posted 02 October 2015 - 12:15 PM

Most every reasonably civilized free society country in the world has some form of socialized medical care system. They spend far less on average per person cost then we do in the U.S. Their overall facilities and treatment are as good as (sometimes better) than the U.S.  All of the people in these countries freely have chosen to adopt these systems and could freely get  rid of them, but they choose not to. So they are all wrong?  In this country (U.S.) we have medical care  run by   huge  for profit insurance corporations;  at least half of your medical premiums are going to places and people who have NOTHING to do with providing  you with health care.  How insane is that?   Whenever the issues of health care come up these insurance companies and pharmaceutical companies spend many millions of dollars to spread disinformation, they are only interested in protecting their cash cow revenues. Why do so many Americans accept the "facts"  presented by big corporate institutions   and allow them to run our lives and make decisions affecting our lives?  

 

After a review of the various system I'm a supporter of the Swiss type model;   not for profit insurance companies to administer the system.     By no means is that system perfect but it appears to be solid and better than a fully run government program.    



#364 darkblue

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Posted 02 October 2015 - 12:08 PM

My main objection to the ACA is the mandate, requiring everyone to have some form of insurance.  What if a person don't want it - may not like doctors / hospitals in no matter way shape or form.  Some believe in faith healing which should had been made part of the exemptions.  Put it simple, if one don't want insurance even if they can afford it or the ACA, then let this be THEIR PROBLEM.  A hospital then has a right not to treat said individual if they don't have the money or insurance to pay the bill.

 

If one wants ACA (aka Obamacare) because of fianancial difficulties then feel free to sign on to it.  This should be a free choice.

 

Everyone has medical insurance in a civilized country - whether they want it or not.

 

Because they need it.

 

This has been achieved in every other G20 country, excepting only the U.S., through a single payer system. These systems are supported from the tax base and the cost is much less than the healthcare costs in the U.S. because insurers have been eliminated from the equation.

 

Wealthy capitalists make a lot of money from the status quo in the U.S., and that's the only reason the current system remains in place there.


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#365 mrroberts

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Posted 02 October 2015 - 12:06 PM

Most every reasonably civilized free society country in the world has some form of socialized medical care system. They spend far less on average per person cost then we do in the U.S. Their overall facilities and treatment are as good as (sometimes better) than the U.S.  All of the people in these countries freely have chosen to adopt these systems and could freely get  rid of them, but they choose not to. So they are all wrong?  In this country (U.S.) we have medical care  run by   huge  for profit insurance corporations;  at least half of your medical premiums are going to places and people who have NOTHING to do with providing  you with health care.  How insane is that?   Whenever the issues of health care come up these insurance companies and pharmaceutical companies spend many millions of dollars to spread disinformation, they are only interested in protecting their cash cow revenues. Why do so many Americans accept the "facts"  presented by big corporate institutions   and allow them to run our lives and make decisions affecting our lives?  


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#366 mrroberts

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Posted 02 October 2015 - 11:42 AM

In the U. S. we have plenty of "mandates" even if people don't readily recognize it. We pay taxes for police and fire protection, public schools ,  public facilities and roadways, etc. There are always a few who say that they  don't want any of these things, preferring to live like hermits.  So if all of these things become voluntary;  my house catches on fire so I don't want the fire department to come to my aid?  I get in a bad traffic accident, so I don't want a cop to give me first aid or an ambulance to take me to get any medical care?  That may be my own choice but the facilities are there for my use so why not pay something for them?  There are things that are done for the benefit of all society and I think that as good citizens we all should help pay for them. I have never had any children but I have paid many thousands of dollars in school taxes over the years. These kids aren't MY problem , why should I help pay for their education?  We can't all just pick and choose everything that we want or need and say let the rest be THEIR problem.  Ham, do we really want hospitals to just turn away sick people because they don't have the money or insurance to pay a bill?  What about little kids who unfortunately have irresponsible parents, let them suffer for their parent's behavior?


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#367 hamradio

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Posted 02 October 2015 - 10:31 AM

My main objection to the ACA is the mandate, requiring everyone to have some form of insurance.  What if a person don't want it - may not like doctors / hospitals in no matter way shape or form.  Some believe in faith healing which should had been made part of the exemptions.  Put it simple, if one don't want insurance even if they can afford it or the ACA, then let this be THEIR PROBLEM.  A hospital then has a right not to treat said individual if they don't have the money or insurance to pay the bill.

 

If one wants ACA (aka Obamacare) because of fianancial difficulties then feel free to sign on to it.  This should be a free choice.



#368 darkblue

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Posted 02 October 2015 - 08:32 AM

All I can tell you is that on Aug. 1, 2012 my abdomen burst. Aneurysm.

 

By the time the ambulances got me to the surgeon my chances were minimal.

 

6 and a half hours on the table, 3 other aneurysms dealt with in addition to the burst one and I'm tough as nails so I'm still here.

 

Home care for 6 weeks followed 12 days of hospitalization.

 

2 years later, another operation - this time on my leg. Home care for 3 weeks again.

 

If these were the only instances of emergency care I'd ever needed, that would be plenty. But they're not. As one nurse said when she was looking at my history last time I was in for surgery - "so, you're the cat with nine lives, ay".

 

All of this medical attention has been first-rate. And I have never received a bill for any of it. Canadians don't go bankrupt over medical care. Not any more.

 

Add that to your anecdotes.


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#369 Capuchin

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Posted 02 October 2015 - 01:48 AM

Anecdotes aren't evidence, but . . . 

 

My family carries a trait which sometimes causes minor problems. It's no big deal (well, the Air Farce docs finally wigged to it and kicked me out, but that's another story).

 

It can also cause a far worse problem, as I learned one night when I had some really strange symptoms. Nothing major, just several parts of my body going haywire at once. I had to go to the ER to pick up a friend, and since they weren't busy, I decided to get checked out. About an hour later, I was in an MRI to confirm the doc's diagnosis. They transported me to a larger hospital with the proper specialists. They did another MRI. 

 

Less than six hours after I checked into the ER, I was being prepped for open-heart surgery at a world-class hospital.

 

My condition was one of those things you never really hear about, and then when it happens to you, everybody knows someone in the family who had it. 
 

I found out two of my distant relatives here in the states had the same thing, with similar results. Everything turned out well for everyone.

 

A relative in Canada (socialized medicine) died in a waiting room. He'd been there more than eight hours (his symptoms weren't considered serious enough to warrant being treated quickly).

 

Three relatives in England (socialized medicine) had the same condition. One died before he could get in to see his doctor. One died during the week between seeing his doctor and getting an MRI. And one lived! About six months, then died of endocarditis (a really, really nasty way to go) because the doc took a quick look at him, said he just had a cold, and sent him home without a proper exam.

 

So let's tally that up -- three of us here (including me with crappy insurance and one without any insurance at all) got proper treatment quickly and lived, while four (living under the wonderful umbrella of socialized medicine) all died because of lousy access to doctors and crappy treatment.

 

 

I'll just leave this one little thought for you: when have you ever known of any government program working efficiently or providing great service at a reasonable cost to the taxpayer? 


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#370 darkblue

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Posted 01 October 2015 - 11:10 PM

Our biggest woes as you stated are the military industrial complexes that are getting us involved in unending, constant wars the government have no business starting (like Iraq)!  Some of our Vets are treated like trash whom gave so much fighting in those god forsaken hellholes

 

Our biggest problem is the apathy of the non-Republican-voting electorate.

 

What an enormous change there could be for the country if everyone would just be sure to go to the voting booth just once every two years.

 

Republican voters always vote. They're more motivated. If they lose one, they just get more angry and come back harder, trying any trick they can think of to keep others away. Anger is their fuel, their life. Though they really are a minority of the population, they continue to be way over-represented in the number of their politicians that get elected.

 

When will the disgust at how badly the country is run reach enough of a critical mass to get those lazy, apathetic withholders to start doing their minimal duty to their society once every couple of years? What will it take?


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#371 hamradio

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Posted 01 October 2015 - 09:56 PM

I never said that Medicare is free. But it is affordable care that is the only real option for many older Americans. They could never get that kind of coverage from private for profit insurance companies.  Before Medicare most older Americans had NO health insurance, they couldn't afford it.  I never suggested that veterans shouldn't get any care or that they haven't earned it. Quite the contrary , I support (as most Americans) getting the best possible care for all veterans, many of their health issues may be a result of their service time. If there are any issues about the  VA not giving adequate care to veterans (not enough facilities or personnel to operate those facilities) I never see Republicans pushing to improve those services by committing the funding necessary.  They can give unlimited funding to the military industrial complex and push for more military intervention around the world but can't man up to pay for those wars and the long term costs (disabled veterans for example).  Today many Republican politicians want to "privatize" these programs, that sure results in cost savings and improved services , right?

 

Our biggest woes as you stated are the military industrial complexes that are getting us involved in unending, constant wars the government have no business starting (like Iraq)!  Some of our Vets are treated like trash whom gave so much fighting in those god forsaken hellholes

 

http://www.cnn.com/2...th-care-delays/


Edited by hamradio, 01 October 2015 - 10:00 PM.


#372 mrroberts

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Posted 01 October 2015 - 09:17 PM

I never said that Medicare is free. But it is affordable care that is the only real option for many older Americans. They could never get that kind of coverage from private for profit insurance companies.  Before Medicare most older Americans had NO health insurance, they couldn't afford it.  I never suggested that veterans shouldn't get any care or that they haven't earned it. Quite the contrary , I support (as most Americans) getting the best possible care for all veterans, many of their health issues may be a result of their service time. If there are any issues about the  VA not giving adequate care to veterans (not enough facilities or personnel to operate those facilities) I never see Republicans pushing to improve those services by committing the funding necessary.  They can give unlimited funding to the military industrial complex and push for more military intervention around the world but can't man up to pay for those wars and the long term costs (disabled veterans for example).  Today many Republican politicians want to "privatize" these programs, that sure results in cost savings and improved services , right?


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#373 hamradio

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Posted 01 October 2015 - 08:51 PM

I did get my insurance through the company I retired from.  My out of pocket was well over $1000 a month and climbing.  Through the health care exchange (There is NO such thing as "Obama Care" , that term was created for the racists crowd) I am saving a bundle of money for comparable coverage.  Its not the best solution but its a step in the right direction.  For all of those who oppose "socialized care" lets get rid of Medicare, Medicade, and Veterans benefits,  they are all government programs.

 

Medicare is not free, it comes out of our salary (like mine) every payday like Social Security.  The Veterans EARNED the care whom served our country but are badly treated by the VA. :(

 

We need to cut the outrageous cost of hospitals, Rx drugs, etc. that has made healthcare unaffordable.  The insurance companies are making $$$$$. :angry:



#374 mrroberts

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Posted 01 October 2015 - 01:35 PM

Well they call us wingnuts but it seems the moonbats are now discovering the pitfalls of Obamacare.

 

Milton Friedman so wisely stated years ago: There's No Such Thing as a Free Lunch.

 

http://www.thefiscal...treat-Obamacare

I did get my insurance through the company I retired from.  My out of pocket was well over $1000 a month and climbing.  Through the health care exchange (There is NO such thing as "Obama Care" , that term was created for the racists crowd) I am saving a bundle of money for comparable coverage.  Its not the best solution but its a step in the right direction.  For all of those who oppose "socialized care" lets get rid of Medicare, Medicade, and Veterans benefits,  they are all government programs.


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#375 hamradio

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Posted 01 October 2015 - 11:29 AM

Well they call us wingnuts but it seems the moonbats are now discovering the pitfalls of Obamacare.

 

Milton Friedman so wisely stated years ago: There's No Such Thing as a Free Lunch.

 

http://www.thefiscal...treat-Obamacare

 

People in the former Soviet Union found out what socialize medicine gave them.  Just to think it took the biggest chunk of the national budget only followed by military spending (who came in 2nd).

 

article-2255693-16B57AC2000005DC-544_964

sovmed002-55.jpg

 

hospital-operating-room-in-the-former-so



#376 darkblue

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Posted 01 October 2015 - 10:35 AM

A single payer health care system supported from the tax base is the only way to go.

 

That America keeps allowing health insurance companies to skim away half the money spent on health matters is just evidence of how corrupt your representatives in government are.

 

"Obamacare" didn't even begin to scratch the surface of the problem - it was, in fact, a gift to the insurance industry. Far more restructuring of the system is needed, and it will happen - it's just a matter of when.


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#377 JakeHolman

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Posted 01 October 2015 - 10:17 AM

Well they call us wingnuts but it seems the moonbats are now discovering the pitfalls of Obamacare.

 

Milton Friedman so wisely stated years ago: There's No Such Thing as a Free Lunch.

 

http://www.thefiscal...treat-Obamacare

 

 


This most beautiful system of the sun, planets and comets, could only proceed from the counsel and dominion of an intelligent and powerful Being. Isaac Newton  

 

And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. Genesis 1:2

 

If we ever forget that we are One Nation Under God, then we will be a nation gone under. President Ronald Reagan

 

In all my perplexities and distresses, the Bible has never failed to give me light and strength.  Gen. Robert E. Lee

 

The principle for which we contend is bound to reassert itself, though it may be at another time and in another form.   Jefferson Davis
 
Movies are written in sand: applauded today, forgotten tomorrow. D.W Griffith
 
I would rather wake up in the middle of nowhere than in any city on earth. Steve McQueen
 
People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf. George Orwell
 
Perfect freedom has no existence. The grown man knows the world he lives in, and for the present, the world is Rome. Ben Hur 

A man's got to have a code, a creed to live by, no matter his job. The Immortal John Wayne


#378 mrroberts

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Posted 30 September 2015 - 12:07 PM

The hired corporate  lacky speaks.



#379 JakeHolman

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Posted 29 September 2015 - 09:32 PM

Blast from the past:


This most beautiful system of the sun, planets and comets, could only proceed from the counsel and dominion of an intelligent and powerful Being. Isaac Newton  

 

And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. Genesis 1:2

 

If we ever forget that we are One Nation Under God, then we will be a nation gone under. President Ronald Reagan

 

In all my perplexities and distresses, the Bible has never failed to give me light and strength.  Gen. Robert E. Lee

 

The principle for which we contend is bound to reassert itself, though it may be at another time and in another form.   Jefferson Davis
 
Movies are written in sand: applauded today, forgotten tomorrow. D.W Griffith
 
I would rather wake up in the middle of nowhere than in any city on earth. Steve McQueen
 
People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf. George Orwell
 
Perfect freedom has no existence. The grown man knows the world he lives in, and for the present, the world is Rome. Ben Hur 

A man's got to have a code, a creed to live by, no matter his job. The Immortal John Wayne


#380 mr6666

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Posted 22 September 2015 - 05:48 PM

Hated CEO Under Investigation ..... :)

 

http://usuncut.com/c...alking-looting/


"A small elephant is not a rabbit."





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