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Healthcare in America?


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462 replies to this topic

#41 jamesjazzguitar

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    There is nothing as bad as something not so bad

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Posted 31 July 2017 - 02:33 PM

If the companies do not earn profits, they go out of business and millions of stock owners as well as policy beneficiaries are left holding the bag.

Every major industry in America earns "billions in profits."   

Single payer would give trillions to hospitals, doctors, medical facilities, ad infinitum.  They all earn profits and when combined is probably trillions.

 

See my other post on the Workers Comp system and how medical is paid in such a 'closed' system.    In such a system the profits to those providing medical care are constrained by the system in order to keep premiums 'reasonable'.

 

Note that in the Swiss system insurers can NOT earn a profit.   An insurer does NOT need to 'earn a profit' to pay claims (they just need to take in more then they pay out with overhead for admin expenses).  

 

This has to occur since users (patients \ claimants) don't care how much a medical provider charges since they have NO vested interest.  The system sets the premiums and what medical providers earn for providing services.    Note that when CA set this up it was challenged by the AMA but CA prevailed in the U.S. Supreme Court.

 

You should review the US Work Comp system and how it is regulated.    Oh,  you might wonder 'why would any FOR profit insurer wish to be in the WC system?';    The main reason is because states require them to be in WC otherwise the insurer can't sell the other highly profitable lines of insurance like auto, home, and fire.

 

PS:  Some states also have a single-payer WC Insurance Fund that is a state agency.  These monopolistic states decided to do this because they believe it would serve both the employers and the employees better than having private, for-profit,  insurers.  


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#42 TheCid

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Posted 31 July 2017 - 11:20 AM

Giving taxpayers money to companies that earn billions in profits;  Just one example of how flawed the ACA is.

If the companies do not earn profits, they go out of business and millions of stock owners as well as policy beneficiaries are left holding the bag.

Every major industry in America earns "billions in profits."   

Single payer would give trillions to hospitals, doctors, medical facilities, ad infinitum.  They all earn profits and when combined is probably trillions.



#43 jamesjazzguitar

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Posted 30 July 2017 - 07:19 PM

true, but only way insurance companies agreed to participate

 

Well of course that was the only way those for-profit insurance companies would agreed to participate.    Right there should have been the tip off to Obama and Pelosi that they were being played.



#44 mr6666

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Posted 30 July 2017 - 06:47 PM

Giving taxpayers money to companies that earn billions in profits;  Just one example of how flawed the ACA is.

 

true, but only way insurance companies agreed to participate


"A small elephant is not a rabbit."


#45 jamesjazzguitar

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Posted 30 July 2017 - 06:08 PM

Lawsuits could force feds to pay Obamacare insurers -

 

The companies claim the federal government owes them billions from a program meant to stabilize Obamacare marketplaces.

 

 

"A pending court decision could force the Trump administration to pump billions of dollars into Obamacare insurers, even as the president threatens to let the health care law “implode.”

 

Health insurers have filed nearly two dozen lawsuits claiming the government owes them payments from a program meant to blunt their losses in the Obamacare marketplaces. That raises the prospect that the Trump administration will have to bankroll a program the GOP has pilloried as an insurer bailout.

 

Insurers are owed more than $8 billion in payments, and the tab is likely to grow.

Insurers say spending restrictions Republicans forced on the “risk corridors” program during the Obama administration, aside from being illegal, are partly to blame for severe turbulence in some Obamacare marketplaces........

 

 

 

 

Giving taxpayers money to companies that earn billions in profits;  Just one example of how flawed the ACA is.



#46 mr6666

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Posted 30 July 2017 - 05:30 PM

Lawsuits could force feds to pay Obamacare insurers -

 

The companies claim the federal government owes them billions from a program meant to stabilize Obamacare marketplaces.

 

 

"A pending court decision could force the Trump administration to pump billions of dollars into Obamacare insurers, even as the president threatens to let the health care law “implode.”

 

Health insurers have filed nearly two dozen lawsuits claiming the government owes them payments from a program meant to blunt their losses in the Obamacare marketplaces. That raises the prospect that the Trump administration will have to bankroll a program the GOP has pilloried as an insurer bailout.

 

Insurers are owed more than $8 billion in payments, and the tab is likely to grow.

Insurers say spending restrictions Republicans forced on the “risk corridors” program during the Obama administration, aside from being illegal, are partly to blame for severe turbulence in some Obamacare marketplaces........

 

http://www.politico....insurers-241112


"A small elephant is not a rabbit."


#47 hamradio

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Posted 28 July 2017 - 03:42 PM

MM's  FEDS GIVE BIG TOBACCO NEW HEADACHE AS CALIFORNIA TAXES PROVING HAZARDOUS TO CIGARETTE SALES  should be connected to this Healthcare thread for obvious reasons.

 

Some of the issues contributing to the rising cost of healthcare!



#48 mr6666

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Posted 28 July 2017 - 03:35 PM

Why didn't Sanders, Warren, et. al. vote for it?

This also is an indication that experienced, responsible Democrats may know more than Keith Ellison about how to win elections, other than his own.

 

"My Republican colleague Sen. Daines decided to introduce a sham single-payer amendment yesterday during the very important Senate floor hearings on the failed Republican health care bill.

This was not a time for political tricks, but I do hope that one day soon Republicans finally catch on and we can join the industrialized world by guaranteeing health care to all people as a right."

 

-B.Sanders


"A small elephant is not a rabbit."


#49 Vautrin

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Posted 28 July 2017 - 03:15 PM

Johnny Boy McCain just gave a big helping hand to the GOP.

I think they would have lost more votes from passing some

dip**** legislation than they would from not getting rid of Ocare.

And of course Donny and the GOP are likely going to do everything

they can to hurt Ocare in the next few years.


Curse Sir Walter Raleigh, he was such a stupid get.


#50 Bogie56

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Posted 28 July 2017 - 09:18 AM

Why didn't Sanders, Warren, et. al. vote for it?

This also is an indication that experienced, responsible Democrats may know more than Keith Ellison about how to win elections, other than his own.

 

The Devil was probably in the details.



#51 TheCid

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Posted 28 July 2017 - 08:30 AM

"A GOP effort to see whether Democrats support a single-payer health care system garnered zero "yes" votes. Most Democrats voted “present,” though some moderates, all up for reelection in 2018, voted against it....

 

ww.politico.com/story/2017/07/27/obamacare-repeal-republicans-status-241025

 

:blink: :(

Why didn't Sanders, Warren, et. al. vote for it?

This also is an indication that experienced, responsible Democrats may know more than Keith Ellison about how to win elections, other than his own.


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#52 LawrenceA

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Posted 27 July 2017 - 08:16 PM

Top insurance CEOs openly blaming Trump sabotage for rate hikes and empty markets

 

"...This is all Donald Trump and his Republican team. They have repeatedly mused over cutting off the federal payments in order to intentionally sabotage the Obamacare insurance marketplace; the move immediately led to rate hikes on consumers from nervous insurers and plans to exit those markets outright rather than risk being stiffed.

That was the point behind the Trump team's threats: to intentionally cause a "death spiral" for the Affordable Care Act-provided plans, after which Trump could turn his ruddy face to the cameras and declare that the markets had "failed."....

 

https://www.dailykos...d-empty-markets

 

quote-republicans-are-the-party-that-say


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#53 mr6666

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Posted 27 July 2017 - 07:28 PM

"A GOP effort to see whether Democrats support a single-payer health care system garnered zero "yes" votes. Most Democrats voted “present,” though some moderates, all up for reelection in 2018, voted against it....

 

ww.politico.com/story/2017/07/27/obamacare-repeal-republicans-status-241025

 

:blink: :(

 

Republicans are introducing a single-payer amendment.

We must guarantee health care as a right, but we will not participate in their sham.


"A small elephant is not a rabbit."


#54 mr6666

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Posted 27 July 2017 - 06:51 PM

Top insurance CEOs openly blaming Trump sabotage for rate hikes and empty markets

 

"...This is all Donald Trump and his Republican team. They have repeatedly mused over cutting off the federal payments in order to intentionally sabotage the Obamacare insurance marketplace; the move immediately led to rate hikes on consumers from nervous insurers and plans to exit those markets outright rather than risk being stiffed.

That was the point behind the Trump team's threats: to intentionally cause a "death spiral" for the Affordable Care Act-provided plans, after which Trump could turn his ruddy face to the cameras and declare that the markets had "failed."....

 

https://www.dailykos...d-empty-markets

 


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"A small elephant is not a rabbit."


#55 mr6666

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Posted 27 July 2017 - 06:24 PM

"A GOP effort to see whether Democrats support a single-payer health care system garnered zero "yes" votes. Most Democrats voted “present,” though some moderates, all up for reelection in 2018, voted against it....

 

ww.politico.com/story/2017/07/27/obamacare-repeal-republicans-status-241025

 

:blink: :( 


"A small elephant is not a rabbit."


#56 TheCid

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Posted 27 July 2017 - 06:15 PM

 

Rep. Keith Ellison‏Verified account @keithellison Jul 26

 
 

If we have to fight for healthcare, we shouldn't just defend the status quo. Why don't we fight for what we really want: Medicare for All.

 

Because it will never, ever pass at this time or in the near future.  Backing it will cost the Democrats hundreds of elected offices at state and federal levels.

If anything, Trump's election has proven that it is not what is the truth, but what you convince a majority of voters (or electoral states) what the truth is.



#57 mr6666

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Posted 27 July 2017 - 06:07 PM

Rep. Keith EllisonVerified account @keithellison Jul 26

 
 

If we have to fight for healthcare, we shouldn't just defend the status quo. Why don't we fight for what we really want: Medicare for All.

 


"A small elephant is not a rabbit."


#58 NipkowDisc

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Posted 26 July 2017 - 06:52 PM

Trump’s Clueless Abdication of Presidential Responsibility-

 

....the Republican establishment’s desire to roll back the welfare state isn’t consistent with Trump’s stated wish to transform the G.O.P. into the the party “of the American worker.”

 

Going all the way back to Bismarck, the most successful nationalist politicians of the right have supplemented nationalism and economic protectionism with a willingness to expand government programs that provide security for the masses in other areas, including health care.

 

Many of Trump’s European counterparts, such as Marine Le Pen, of France’s far-right National Front, and Norbert Hofer, the head of the Freedom Party of Austria, are committed to universal health care, just as long as it is reserved for native citizens...

 

...After the collapse of the Senate health-care bill, Trump could move in this direction—but that would mean breaking with the Republican leadership, many of its Washington-based activists, and the ultra-conservative big donors who bankroll the Party.

 

t would also involve Trump demonstrating, counter to all the evidence, that he is more than a sham populist....

 

http://www.newyorker...16&kwp_1=737956

 

<_<

 

he's got the reins of power and that's all we evil deplorables care about. aren't we terrible? :D


"okay, so we're moving right along, folks" -al pacino, dog day afternoon


#59 mr6666

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Posted 26 July 2017 - 04:52 PM

Trump’s Clueless Abdication of Presidential Responsibility-

 

....the Republican establishment’s desire to roll back the welfare state isn’t consistent with Trump’s stated wish to transform the G.O.P. into the the party “of the American worker.”

 

Going all the way back to Bismarck, the most successful nationalist politicians of the right have supplemented nationalism and economic protectionism with a willingness to expand government programs that provide security for the masses in other areas, including health care.

 

Many of Trump’s European counterparts, such as Marine Le Pen, of France’s far-right National Front, and Norbert Hofer, the head of the Freedom Party of Austria, are committed to universal health care, just as long as it is reserved for native citizens...

 

...After the collapse of the Senate health-care bill, Trump could move in this direction—but that would mean breaking with the Republican leadership, many of its Washington-based activists, and the ultra-conservative big donors who bankroll the Party.

 

It would also involve Trump demonstrating, counter to all the evidence, that he is more than a sham populist....

 

http://www.newyorker...16&kwp_1=737956

 

<_<


"A small elephant is not a rabbit."


#60 TheCid

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Posted 26 July 2017 - 09:38 AM

 

NYT Graphics‏ @nytgraphics 3h3 hours ago

 
 

Nine Republicans voted against the Senate repeal and replace amendment, which failed 43-57 https://www.nytimes....bamacare.html …

DFoEBqtXYAM3UzT.jpg

 

I was glad to see 9 Republicans, including Graham, vote against the Repeal and Replace (someday maybe) Amendment.  However, this does indicate how close the vote will be on the ultimate "replacement" Senate bill.  It may be another moment when they drag in every Republican senator, give a couple political cover, pork to others and then let Pence do the tie-breaker again.

 

Also, watch for McConnell to use some maneuvers to prevent the need for 60 votes to pass something. A "reconciliation" act only requires 51 votes.

 

Then we wait for whatever they do to get the House and Senate plans to agree.






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