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Gay joking in straight classics


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#21 jaragon

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Posted 18 July 2016 - 10:16 PM

James Bond meets Q....https://youtu.be/57Uy9jPxxwI  



#22 jaragon

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Posted 18 July 2016 - 05:36 PM

Was Dr. No a gay man?

 

Joseph Wiseman's riveting performance suggests a monomanical madman with a great deal of suppressed homosexuality.

 

And his lifestyle on Crab Island is certainly that of a gay man.

 

In the dinner party scene, Dr. No can't get rid of Honey Badger fast enough - and then he tells his henchmen to "soften" James Bond up.

 

What other assaults on Mr. Bond's masculinity did he intend?

 

It's a tantalizing thought.

 

Dr.%2BNo.png

Interesting...


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#23 rayban

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Posted 18 July 2016 - 07:40 AM

In "Harper", which was shown on TCM yesterday, Paul Newman (as Lew Harper) kept referring to Robert Wagner (as Alan) as "beauty" all of the time.

 

He addressed Alan openly as "beauty".

 

It added an interesting layer to a man - Lew Harper - who seemed very disgruntled with just about everybody and everything.

 

Was he looking for a lifestyle change?

 

Interestingly enough, he often got a charge out of Alan, who referred to Lew as "Lew baby".

 

Maybe the characters had more of "a gay relationship" in the original material by Ross MacDonald.

 

Or maybe a scene or two hit the cutting room floor.


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"I was born the day she kissed me.  I died the day she left me.  I lived a few weeks while she loved me." - Humphrey Bogart in "In A Lonely Place".


#24 rayban

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Posted 21 April 2016 - 10:36 AM

Was Dr. No a gay man?

 

Joseph Wiseman's riveting performance suggests a monomanical madman with a great deal of suppressed homosexuality.

 

And his lifestyle on Crab Island is certainly that of a gay man.

 

In the dinner party scene, Dr. No can't get rid of Honey Badger fast enough - and then he tells his henchmen to "soften" James Bond up.

 

What other assaults on Mr. Bond's masculinity did he intend?

 

It's a tantalizing thought.

 

Dr.%2BNo.png


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"I was born the day she kissed me.  I died the day she left me.  I lived a few weeks while she loved me." - Humphrey Bogart in "In A Lonely Place".


#25 jaragon

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Posted 17 April 2016 - 04:26 PM

Well, now, there was Neil Jordan's "Interview With The Vampire" in which the homoerotic context could be strongly "felt".

 

Of course, in the famous book by Anne Rice, the homoeroticism was much more on display.

 

200_s.gif

 

THE DEEPEST KISS!

I thought the movie was beautiful but the gay angle was one long tease


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#26 rayban

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Posted 17 April 2016 - 02:59 PM

In "The Fearless Vampire Killers", the gay vampire is played impeccably by Iain Quarrier, who is Herbert von Krolock (make of that name what you surely can):

 

maxresdefault.jpg

 

Herbert's about to pounce on the professor's assistant for "the deepest kiss".


"I was born the day she kissed me.  I died the day she left me.  I lived a few weeks while she loved me." - Humphrey Bogart in "In A Lonely Place".


#27 rayban

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Posted 17 April 2016 - 02:28 PM

Well, now, there was Neil Jordan's "Interview With The Vampire" in which the homoerotic context could be strongly "felt".

 

Of course, in the famous book by Anne Rice, the homoeroticism was much more on display.

 

200_s.gif

 

THE DEEPEST KISS!


"I was born the day she kissed me.  I died the day she left me.  I lived a few weeks while she loved me." - Humphrey Bogart in "In A Lonely Place".


#28 jaragon

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Posted 17 April 2016 - 10:26 AM

Can't say that I've seen it. Probably the whole aspect of vampirism, as it relates to sexuality, is its own separate topic.

Vampirism  can be used as metaphor for homosexuality- even though most male movie vampires seem to only lust after women.  I love lesbian vampires movies specially the Hammer films like " Lust for a Vampire"- actually as I was falling sleep watching "Carol" I was really hoping Cate Blanchet would turn into one... :)


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#29 TopBilled

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Posted 17 April 2016 - 08:29 AM

I really enjoyed the handling of the vampire Count's gay son in "The Fearless Vampire Killers".  As soon as the kid sees the Professor's assistant, he is more than ready to POUNCE.  The blond beauty, who looks really hungry, is in such overwhelming and frightening HEAT.  In this totally-consuming state, the kid is actually funny (and I do wish that he had gotten SOME.)

Can't say that I've seen it. Probably the whole aspect of vampirism, as it relates to sexuality, is its own separate topic.


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"The truth? What good is the truth if it destroys us all..?" -- Mady Christians in ALL MY SONS (1948).


#30 rayban

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Posted 17 April 2016 - 08:13 AM

I really enjoyed the handling of the vampire Count's gay son in "The Fearless Vampire Killers".  As soon as the kid sees the Professor's assistant, he is more than ready to POUNCE.  The blond beauty, who looks really hungry, is in such overwhelming and frightening HEAT.  In this totally-consuming state, the kid is actually funny (and I do wish that he had gotten SOME.)


"I was born the day she kissed me.  I died the day she left me.  I lived a few weeks while she loved me." - Humphrey Bogart in "In A Lonely Place".


#31 hepclassic

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Posted 16 March 2016 - 06:24 PM

Ray,

 

I'm glad you brought this thread back to the top of page one. After re-reading it, I can see we had started a most interesting discussion. This is exactly the type of thread I love, where posters examine social conditions (prejudices) that exist within mainstream film texts.

Me too. But then again, that's my M.O. anyway. That's what film can do very well. 


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"Sometimes you have to look at a person and see that he's doing the best he can." Katharine Hepburn as Ethel Thayer in 1981's "On Golden Pond."
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


#32 rayban

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Posted 13 March 2016 - 02:10 PM

Ray,

 

I'm glad you brought this thread back to the top of page one. After re-reading it, I can see we had started a most interesting discussion. This is exactly the type of thread I love, where posters examine social conditions (prejudices) that exist within mainstream film texts.

Jarrod,

 

It's the kind of film thread that I happen to love, too.


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"I was born the day she kissed me.  I died the day she left me.  I lived a few weeks while she loved me." - Humphrey Bogart in "In A Lonely Place".


#33 TopBilled

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Posted 13 March 2016 - 10:55 AM

Ray,

 

I'm glad you brought this thread back to the top of page one. After re-reading it, I can see we had started a most interesting discussion. This is exactly the type of thread I love, where posters examine social conditions (prejudices) that exist within mainstream film texts.


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"The truth? What good is the truth if it destroys us all..?" -- Mady Christians in ALL MY SONS (1948).


#34 rayban

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Posted 11 March 2016 - 11:52 AM

In "Send Me No Flowers", there is a classic Rock Hudson/Tony Randall situation that does turn out to be funny.

 

Tony Randall is Rock Hudson's next-door neighbor and Tony Randall's wife and children have gone away.

 

When Rock Hudson thinks - mistakenly - that he is actually dying and tells Tony Randall about it in the strictest confidence, Tony Randall can no longer function and seeks comfort in alcohol.

 

Believe it or not, Tony Randall's incapacitated condition is funny, very funny - because it plays like the overly-concerned reaction of a "spouse" who cannot handle the dreadful news.

 

Later, when Rock Hudson is seeking shelter in Tony Randall's house and they are sharing the same bed, Rock starts to complain about Tony's cold feet and Tony starts to complain about Rock's toenails.

 

The relationship has come full circle - they are now so close to each other that they can bicker openly and take jabs at each other.

 

When Clint Walker shows up as a possible mate for Doris Day (after Rock Hudson dies), Clint Walker is not really taken seriously, because Rock Hudson and Tony Randall are just too busy dealing with each other.

 

Again, this situation comes across as a very funny one - because Rock Hudson and Tony Randall can't see beyond themselves.

 

When Rock Hudson is suspected of infidelity with Patricia Barry by Doris Day, it's instantly funny for the audience, because Rock Hudson has already been "unfaithful" with Tony Randall.

 

"Send Me No Flowers" is a highly entertaining straight farcical comedy that also happens to have a highly subversive subtext.

 

Enjoy!


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"I was born the day she kissed me.  I died the day she left me.  I lived a few weeks while she loved me." - Humphrey Bogart in "In A Lonely Place".


#35 hepclassic

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Posted 27 November 2015 - 04:02 PM

Good post...a case could be made about Kip in ADAM'S RIB. But they cover the character with stereotypes about heterosexual bachelors. 

 

When Gordon & Kanin give Adam the line about Kip already seeming like a woman, which plays as a joke and underscores the fact that Kip is quite different from Adam and the straight men in their community, it adds to the film's overall critique about challenging the conventional roles of men and women in American society.

If I could make a ratio to bachelor references to gay jokes in Adam's Rib, I would say there is more gay jokes than bachelor references. The quip about his sympathies to Amanda's side in the trial does add to the critique about challenging, but negatively. In that line in that scene, it reinforces that Kip is less of a man because he doesn't mind openly shoItwing his support for Amanda's side. It's a jab at male feminists too. The only thing that makes it brush worthy is Kip's laissez-faire-do-I-care tone by not being too thrown by Adam's jabs. 


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"Sometimes you have to look at a person and see that he's doing the best he can." Katharine Hepburn as Ethel Thayer in 1981's "On Golden Pond."
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


#36 TopBilled

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Posted 26 November 2015 - 03:36 PM

There are many characters in classic movies that can be seen as gay - specially to a modern audience- this specially true after the code in which writers/director were force to sensor themselves- still there are moments that they manage to wink at the audience- there is that classic gun scene in "Red River" in which Ireland and Clift seem to have something else on their minds beside shooting.

But in that case, were they joking around about it? I think there's a difference between scenes of subtextual homoerotic desire and scenes where a character is teased for supposedly having homosexual traits.


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"The truth? What good is the truth if it destroys us all..?" -- Mady Christians in ALL MY SONS (1948).


#37 jaragon

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Posted 26 November 2015 - 02:29 PM

There are many characters in classic movies that can be seen as gay - specially to a modern audience- this specially true after the code in which writers/director were force to sensor themselves- still there are moments that they manage to wink at the audience- there is that classic gun scene in "Red River" in which Ireland and Clift seem to have something else on their minds beside shooting.https://youtu.be/uQPtPu2IGNQ


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#38 TopBilled

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Posted 26 November 2015 - 11:52 AM

In Adam's Rib, I noticed this similar kind of gay joking in a straight classic in the form of Kip (David Wayne's character). Next door neighbor who has the hots for Amanda Bonner (Katharine Hepburn) and isn't afraid to let Adam Bonner (Spencer Tracy) know it. In the meantime, the next door neighbor collects art and brings single women to parties at the Bonners just to have someone to bring. Kip undermines Adam at every turn, and even supports the idea of confronting the legal double standard against women so much so that he says "I might go out and become a woman myself" to which Adam chides "and he wouldn't have far to go either!" He does it for supposed ulterior motives, but the joke is that Kip is ambiguous about it. 

 

Maybe Ruth Gordon and Garson Kanin had means to be not-so-subtle with Hays Coded approved language of this script, maybe it was the only way they could get away with the idea of the supposed not-gay "gay best friend," I don't know. Kip seems to be comic relief and the passing joke. I don't know, what do you think? 

https://www.youtube....h?v=M3vjhSTsKfg

Good post...a case could be made about Kip in ADAM'S RIB. But they cover the character with stereotypes about heterosexual bachelors. 

 

When Gordon & Kanin give Adam the line about Kip already seeming like a woman, which plays as a joke and underscores the fact that Kip is quite different from Adam and the straight men in their community, it adds to the film's overall critique about challenging the conventional roles of men and women in American society.


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"The truth? What good is the truth if it destroys us all..?" -- Mady Christians in ALL MY SONS (1948).


#39 hepclassic

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Posted 26 November 2015 - 10:39 AM

In Adam's Rib, I noticed this similar kind of gay joking in a straight classic in the form of Kip (David Wayne's character). Next door neighbor who has the hots for Amanda Bonner (Katharine Hepburn) and isn't afraid to let Adam Bonner (Spencer Tracy) know it. In the meantime, the next door neighbor collects art and brings single women to parties at the Bonners just to have someone to bring. Kip undermines Adam at every turn, and even supports the idea of confronting the legal double standard against women so much so that he says "I might go out and become a woman myself" to which Adam chides "and he wouldn't have far to go either!" He does it for supposed ulterior motives, but the joke is that Kip is ambiguous about it. 

 

Maybe Ruth Gordon and Garson Kanin had means to be not-so-subtle with Hays Coded approved language of this script, maybe it was the only way they could get away with the idea of the supposed not-gay "gay best friend," I don't know. Kip seems to be comic relief and the passing joke. I don't know, what do you think? 

https://www.youtube....h?v=M3vjhSTsKfg


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"Sometimes you have to look at a person and see that he's doing the best he can." Katharine Hepburn as Ethel Thayer in 1981's "On Golden Pond."
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


#40 TopBilled

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Posted 25 November 2015 - 03:35 PM

There are classic movies which weren't shown for years (and some still aren't) because the racial stereotyping is considered too extreme and can only be read as insensitivity by a modern audience. That hasn't really happened in terms of gay stereotyping and I'm not recommending that it should, that such movies should be withheld, but we need to acknowledge that these old films still have the power to sway minds and influence attitudes. The example you gave of Right Cross seems harmless enough. I know this topic is just a point of interest with you and it's not your intention to raise any kind of alarm and I don't think being too thin-skinned would get gay people anywhere in particular anyway, but it's helpful to talk about these things rather than just shrug them off. Good topic.

Thanks. Yeah, I don't know about Schnee's own sexual orientation, and I'd have to look at his credits and rewatch films he wrote to see if there is more of this kind of dialogue or situation from him. But in terms of what we see in RIGHT CROSS, it is very transparent. And I am sure it was transparent to audiences at the time, who were in on the jokes. 

 

As for racial stereotyping, it's interesting you bring that up and correlate it to this topic. The line where Montalban says to Powell, 'I know you are a fancier of canines' does seem like a way around the code, to suggest jokingly 'I know you are gay.' But what if the line was 'I know you are into blacks.' Would TCM still air it? Would people still watch it or find it relatively harmless? 


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"The truth? What good is the truth if it destroys us all..?" -- Mady Christians in ALL MY SONS (1948).





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