We're excited to present a great new set of boards to classic movie fans with tons of new features, stability, and performance.

If you’re new to the message boards, please “Register” to get started. If you want to learn more about the new boards, visit our FAQ.

Register

If you're a returning member, start by resetting your password to claim your old display name using your email address.

Re-Register

Thanks for your continued support of the TCM Message Boards.

X

Kyle Kersten was a true friend of TCM. One of the first and most active participants of the Message Boards, “Kyle in Hollywood” (aka, hlywdkjk) demonstrated a depth of knowledge and largesse of spirit that made him one of the most popular and respected voices in these forums. This thread is a living memorial to his life and love of movies, which remain with us still.

X

Jump to content


Photo

Lead or Supporting Role?


  • Please log in to reply
510 replies to this topic

#1 Bogie56

Bogie56

    Prof. Knucklehead

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 10,167 posts
  • LocationTralfamadore

Posted Today, 08:26 AM

Leading vs. Supporting Categories in 2007 …

IMO Javier Bardem was the co-leading actor in No Country For Old Men.  Oscar and many other awards had him in supporting which he easily won.  This is a true cat and mouse film and much of it is from Bardem’s perspective.  He even opens and closes the film.

Casey Affleck and Brad Pitt are co-leads in The Assassination of Jessie James by the Coward Robert Ford.  Jesse James may be the dominant figure in the film but it is just as much Robert Ford’s story.  In fact he takes over the film.

Forest Whitaker is supporting in The Great Debaters.

I have Paul Dano in supporting in There Will Be Blood but I should see this one again.

Michael Cera is supporting in Juno.



#2 Bogie56

Bogie56

    Prof. Knucklehead

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 10,167 posts
  • LocationTralfamadore

Posted Yesterday, 05:01 AM

I just watched this last night and would say that Michael Sheen was the lead actor in The Queen.  Some awards had him in the supporting category.  Maybe the thought was everyone is supporting to Her Majesty.


  • LawrenceA likes this

#3 LawrenceA

LawrenceA

    Caretaker

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 19,473 posts
  • LocationThe Overlook Hotel

Posted 16 July 2017 - 10:52 AM

At the moment I have Forest Whitaker as leading and Jennifer Hudson as supporting, but I can see the counterarguments. 

 

Who would you consider leading in The Prestige and Little Miss Sunshine?

 

The Prestige = Christian Bale and Hugh Jackman.

 

Little Miss Sunshine = Greg Kinnear and Toni Collette.


  • Bogie56 and CoraSmith like this

#4 CoraSmith

CoraSmith

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 245 posts
  • LocationBelgium

Posted 16 July 2017 - 02:23 AM

At the moment I have Forest Whitaker as leading and Jennifer Hudson as supporting, but I can see the counterarguments. 

 

Who would you consider leading in The Prestige and Little Miss Sunshine?



#5 skimpole

skimpole

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,377 posts

Posted 15 July 2017 - 06:29 PM

I w

Now, for the more contestable movie. The main problem I have with The Last King of Scotland is that it isn't a movie about Idi Amin (Forest Whitaker). It's a movie about whiny British guy James McAvoy. Idi Amin is just one of the issues and characters in McAvoy's life, and as the film progresses he becomes the sole figure in McAvoy's life, but he's never really seen except for how he affects McAvoy's character. Again, it's a big character, and compared to McAvoy's turn, Whitaker overshadows everyone else in the movie. I can understand why people would want to put him as a lead, and as usual, I'll probably re-write my own list to conform (I'll already need to make 5 changes according to what's been posted), but I still say that the story is about McAvoy, and that's why I wasn't crazy about the movie.

 

I agree!  I find Peter Morgan screenplays very annoying because instead of dealing with serious moral issues he deals with contrived ones.  There's almost certainly a serious movie, in fact no shortage of them, about people whose sense of solidarity risks them getting killed.  One thinks of adapting Nadine Gordimer's novel A Guest of Honor.  But McAvoy's nitwit character is simply out of his depth.  Likewise wondering whether Elizabeth II will adapt to the media kerfuffle over her daughter-in-law's abrupt death, or whether David Frost has the brains to reveal Nixon's mendacity...good grief.



#6 LawrenceA

LawrenceA

    Caretaker

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 19,473 posts
  • LocationThe Overlook Hotel

Posted 15 July 2017 - 09:54 AM

Leading vs. Supporting Categories in 2006 …

 

I have Jennifer Hudson as a lead actress in Dreamgirls.  Oscar had her in supporting and guess what, she won.

 

Both Forest Whitaker and James McAvoy are leads in The Last King of Scotland.

 

I was waiting for one of these to come along. I know I'll be overruled (aren't I always in this thread?), but I'll still state my case. The first one isn't as controversial...I think Jennifer Hudson is supporting in Dreamgirls. The leads are Jamie Foxx and Beyonce. Hudson is gone for a section of the film. She's such a big, dominating presence that she steals the film, but I still think she's supporting.

 

Now, for the more contestable movie. The main problem I have with The Last King of Scotland is that it isn't a movie about Idi Amin (Forest Whitaker). It's a movie about whiny British guy James McAvoy. Idi Amin is just one of the issues and characters in McAvoy's life, and as the film progresses he becomes the sole figure in McAvoy's life, but he's never really seen except for how he affects McAvoy's character. Again, Idi Amin is a big character, and compared to McAvoy's turn, Whitaker overshadows everyone else in the movie. I can understand why people would want to put him as a lead, and as usual, I'll probably re-write my own list to conform (I'll already need to make 5 changes according to what's been posted), but I still say that the story is about McAvoy, and that's why I wasn't crazy about the movie.


  • skimpole likes this

#7 Bogie56

Bogie56

    Prof. Knucklehead

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 10,167 posts
  • LocationTralfamadore

Posted 15 July 2017 - 06:17 AM

Leading vs. Supporting Categories in 2006 …

IMO Meryl Streep was a supporting actress in The Devil Wears Prada.  I suspect she was put in the lead category because of her billing but this was clearly Anne Hathaway’s film.  The National Society of Film Critics agreed with me here.

I have Jennifer Hudson as a lead actress in Dreamgirls.  Oscar had her in supporting and guess what, she won.

I have Cate Blanchett as a lead actress along with Judi Dench in Notes on a Scandal.  Oscar had her in supporting which may have been because of the producers application to not split the vote on this film with Ms. Dench.  I think this is a two-hander.

I have Jack Nicholson as supporting in The Departed.  Both Leonardo DiCaprio and Matt Damon are leads.  Mark Wahlberg is supporting.

Both Forest Whitaker and James McAvoy are leads in The Last King of Scotland.

Catherine O’Hara is a lead in For Your Consideration.

Richard Griffiths is supporting in The History Boys though his part usually gets top billing.



#8 LawrenceA

LawrenceA

    Caretaker

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 19,473 posts
  • LocationThe Overlook Hotel

Posted 09 July 2017 - 11:05 AM

Of course I don't insist.  This is just IMO.  I tend to go with several leads in films like Sin City and Pulp Fiction as opposed to everyone being supporting.  Because their parts are so big they often end up winning supporting awards.

But I have seen Brokeback three times and felt it was a two-hander each time.  No pun.

 

I'll switch my lists around. Now I'll have a scant 11 names in my Supporting Actor list, and 24 in the lead!



#9 CoraSmith

CoraSmith

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 245 posts
  • LocationBelgium

Posted 09 July 2017 - 06:44 AM

And Rhys Meyers is the only lead in Match Point?

I was planning to put Scarlett Johansson in the leading category, but it's a borderline case. 



#10 Bogie56

Bogie56

    Prof. Knucklehead

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 10,167 posts
  • LocationTralfamadore

Posted 09 July 2017 - 05:37 AM

I'm not sure about these two. Brokeback Mountain seems like a dual-lead, but Gyllenhaal is gone from a lot of the second half, and the story is really about Ennis (Ledger). I'll concede both being leads for the performance thread, but I personally think it's just Ledger's story. I haven't seen it in more than 10 years, though.

 

I consider Rourke supporting in Sin City. As a portmanteau film, it's difficult to assign leads and supporting, although if pressed I would name only Bruce Willis as a lead, since he leads two of the 4 story segments (not counting the wraparounds). Granted, Rourke steals the entire movie, in my opinion, and I have him as my supporting actor winner, but if you insist, I'll move him.

 

Of course I don't insist.  This is just IMO.  I tend to go with several leads in films like Sin City and Pulp Fiction as opposed to everyone being supporting.  Because their parts are so big they often end up winning supporting awards.

But I have seen Brokeback three times and felt it was a two-hander each time.  No pun.


  • LawrenceA likes this

#11 LawrenceA

LawrenceA

    Caretaker

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 19,473 posts
  • LocationThe Overlook Hotel

Posted 08 July 2017 - 09:46 PM

Leading vs. Supporting Categories in 2005 …

 

I have both Heath Ledger and Jake Gyllenhaal as the leads in Brokeback Mountain.  Oscar had Gyllenhaal in support which I think was an effort to not split the vote.

 

I have Mickey Rourke as a lead in Sin City.

 

I'm not sure about these two. Brokeback Mountain seems like a dual-lead, but Gyllenhaal is gone from a lot of the second half, and the story is really about Ennis (Ledger). I'll concede both being leads for the performance thread, but I personally think it's just Ledger's story. I haven't seen it in more than 10 years, though.

 

I consider Rourke supporting in Sin City. As a portmanteau film, it's difficult to assign leads and supporting, although if pressed I would name only Bruce Willis as a lead, since he leads two of the 4 story segments (not counting the wraparounds). Granted, Rourke steals the entire movie, in my opinion, and I have him as my supporting actor winner, but if you insist, I'll move him.



#12 skimpole

skimpole

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,377 posts

Posted 08 July 2017 - 09:34 PM

And Rhys Meyers is the only lead in Match Point?



#13 Bogie56

Bogie56

    Prof. Knucklehead

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 10,167 posts
  • LocationTralfamadore

Posted 08 July 2017 - 05:54 AM

Leading vs. Supporting Categories in 2005 …

IMO George Clooney was a lead actor in Syriana.  I suspect he was put in the supporting category by the producers to increase his chances of winning.  It worked in the case of Oscar.

I have both Heath Ledger and Jake Gyllenhaal as the leads in Brokeback Mountain.  Oscar had Gyllenhaal in support which I think was an effort to not split the vote.

I have Mickey Rourke as a lead in Sin City.

Both Cameron Diaz and Toni Collette are leads in In Her Shoes.

Both Ion Fiscuteanu and Luminita Gheorghiu are the leads in The Death of Mr. Lazarescu.

Barry Pepper is supporting in The Three Burials of Melquiades Estrada.

Both Joel Edgerton and Chiwetel Ejiofor are leads in Kinky Boots.

I have Maria Bello as the lead actress in  A History of Violence.  Many awards had her in the supporting category.


  • CoraSmith likes this

#14 skimpole

skimpole

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,377 posts

Posted 06 July 2017 - 04:26 PM

I noted that there was disagreement among the critics group whether Phil Davis was lead or supporting in Vera Drake.  Personally I believe Staunton dominates the movie so much all the other characters are supporting.


  • Bogie56, LawrenceA and CoraSmith like this

#15 skimpole

skimpole

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,377 posts

Posted 05 July 2017 - 03:22 AM

I have Pacino as supporting in Merchant.  I would have to see the film again to judge the others.

 

Perhaps.  Shylock is clearly not supposed to be the protagonist.  But has anyone seen the play in the past two centuries because they were interested in who played Antonio?



#16 Bogie56

Bogie56

    Prof. Knucklehead

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 10,167 posts
  • LocationTralfamadore

Posted 04 July 2017 - 08:54 PM

Any opinions on The Merchant of Venice

 

Al Pacino - Shylock

Jeremy Irons - Antonio (the merchant)

Joseph Fiennes - Bassanio

Lynn Collins - Portia

 

Fiennes and Collins would have a better chance in the supporting category, but a major part of the story revolves around their characters. I would say all four are leading.

 

I have Pacino as supporting in Merchant.  I would have to see the film again to judge the others.



#17 CoraSmith

CoraSmith

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 245 posts
  • LocationBelgium

Posted 04 July 2017 - 11:21 AM

Any opinions on The Merchant of Venice

 

Al Pacino - Shylock

Jeremy Irons - Antonio (the merchant)

Joseph Fiennes - Bassanio

Lynn Collins - Portia

 

Fiennes and Collins would have a better chance in the supporting category, but a major part of the story revolves around their characters. I would say all four are leading.



#18 skimpole

skimpole

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,377 posts

Posted 04 July 2017 - 01:31 AM

Crash is one of those where I feel everyone is supporting. If there were leads, it would be Dillon and maybe Terrence Howard, who I personally have in supporting.

 

If I didn't loathe the movie, I'd suggest Cheadle might be the one lead.



#19 LawrenceA

LawrenceA

    Caretaker

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 19,473 posts
  • LocationThe Overlook Hotel

Posted 03 July 2017 - 04:15 PM

Leading vs. Supporting Categories in 2004 continued …

For starters I have Paul Haggis' Crash as a 2004 film as it was released ublically at the Toronto Film Festival in September of that year.  I have Matt Dillon as a lead in that picture though many awards including the Oscars had him in support.

 

Crash is one of those where I feel everyone is supporting. If there were leads, it would be Dillon and maybe Terrence Howard, who I personally have in supporting.



#20 Bogie56

Bogie56

    Prof. Knucklehead

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 10,167 posts
  • LocationTralfamadore

Posted 03 July 2017 - 03:28 PM

Leading vs. Supporting Categories in 2004 continued …

For starters I have Paul Haggis' Crash as a 2004 film as it was released ublically at the Toronto Film Festival in September of that year.  I have Matt Dillon as a lead in that picture though many awards including the Oscars had him in support.






0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users