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Kyle Kersten was a true friend of TCM. One of the first and most active participants of the Message Boards, “Kyle in Hollywood” (aka, hlywdkjk) demonstrated a depth of knowledge and largesse of spirit that made him one of the most popular and respected voices in these forums. This thread is a living memorial to his life and love of movies, which remain with us still.

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Lead or Supporting Role?


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#381 kingrat

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Posted 07 June 2016 - 08:40 PM

Farley Granger and John Dall in ROPE?

 

I agree about Calhern and Winters being supporting, and I would consider Arthur Kennedy supporting in THE LUSTY MEN. Ethel Waters and Gloria Grahame are tougher calls.

 

When we get to 1949, A LETTER TO THREE WIVES is problematic for me about lead/supporting.



#382 LawrenceA

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Posted 07 June 2016 - 08:20 PM

Arthur Kennedy in The Lusty Men

Ethel Waters in Member of the Wedding

Gloria Grahame  The Big Heat

 

 

the whole cast of Julius Caesar



#383 Bogie56

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Posted 07 June 2016 - 08:00 PM

Lead or supporting:

 

Louis Calhern in The Asphalt Jungle

Shelley Winters in A Place in the Sun

 

Both supporting I would say.



#384 LawrenceA

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Posted 07 June 2016 - 07:58 PM

Lead or supporting:

 

Louis Calhern in The Asphalt Jungle

Shelley Winters in A Place in the Sun



#385 Bogie56

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Posted 02 June 2016 - 05:50 AM

Leading vs. Supporting Categories in 1947…

 

Oscar put Edmund Gwenn in the supporting category for Miracle on 34th Street and he subsequently won that award.  In my opinion this was the lead performance in this film.  Nevermind screen time, the film follows Kris Kringle’s story from his gaining employment at Macy’s right through to the finale.  He is always the central focus of the film.  Maureen O’Hara would be the co-lead with Natalie Wood and John Payne in support.

 


#386 Bogie56

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Posted 02 June 2016 - 05:48 AM

I'll post this question over here instead of in the performance thread so that one doesn't get bogged down. I was wondering, since Bogie is adding the winners from the various film festivals, what film festivals are "reputable" and which ones are generally disregarded or garner less respect, out of the larger film festivals? Which festival awards will you cover, and which will you most likely ignore? And are there other awards organizations that you will add that are not festival related?

 

As far as festivals go Venice is the oldest and it also gives acting awards.  Cannes is a close second.  Berlin, and much later, the Independent Spirit Awards often have quite interesting choices.  Sundance doesn't offer acting awards.  As national awards go there is of course the Oscars and I would say the British BAFTA, and French Cesar awards are also quite important.

The Golden Globes began in the 1940's and they too often have interesting choices.  It wasn't until the 60's that they became a bit bloated and you might say started to cater to the star factor.

The New York Film Critics are almost as old as the Oscars and often have great choices.  The National Board of Review and later the National Society of Film Critics often offer interesting choices as well.

The 1970's and 1980's saw an explosion of awards from newspaper film critics.


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#387 LawrenceA

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Posted 01 June 2016 - 08:59 PM

I'll post this question over here instead of in the performance thread so that one doesn't get bogged down. I was wondering, since Bogie is adding the winners from the various film festivals, what film festivals are "reputable" and which ones are generally disregarded or garner less respect, out of the larger film festivals? Which festival awards will you cover, and which will you most likely ignore? And are there other awards organizations that you will add that are not festival related?



#388 LawrenceA

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Posted 31 May 2016 - 10:22 PM

I wrote up my performance lists for the remainder of the 40's. I didn't find enough performances to fill out the categories. For '47, I only have 3 Best Actress choices, and less than five in the supporting categories in 48 and 49. I've seen a lot of films for those years, but not many of them stand out as something to be acknowledged as special. I could list more than five, but it would just to be listing them, and not something I felt was genuinely exceptional.

 

I sometimes regret that most of my choices are the proverbial "low-hanging fruit" from films most everyone is already familiar with, and therefore I'm not contributing anything beyond the obvious. 



#389 Bogie56

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Posted 31 May 2016 - 08:24 PM

This is looking ahead a bit, but is Judy Holliday in Adam's Rib  lead or supporting?

 

Supporting!



#390 LawrenceA

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Posted 31 May 2016 - 07:07 PM

This is looking ahead a bit, but is Judy Holliday in Adam's Rib  lead or supporting?



#391 kingrat

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Posted 26 May 2016 - 11:14 PM

Thanks for bumping this thread, Bogey, so we can get ready for 1946 come Sunday.

 

I would consider Teresa Wright a lead in BEST YEARS alongside Dana Andrews and Fredric March, with everyone else supporting, but it's not an easy call.

 

Don't know if anyone else will be nominating performances from THREE STRANGERS, but I would regard Geraldine Fitzgerald, Sydney Greenstreet, and Peter Lorre all as leads.

 

Joseph Cotten in DUEL IN THE SUN seems like a lead to me, along with Jennifer Jones and ColumboFan's darling Greg, rather than a supporting actor like Charles Bickford, Lionel Barrymore, Butterfly McQueen, etc.

 

Then there's Lizabeth Scott, who probably has more screen time in THE STRANGE LOVE OF MARTHA IVERS than Barbara Stanwyck, which may suggest that she is a lead like Barbara and Van Heflin.

 

I'll put Jane Wyman in the lead category where Oscar placed her, although this takes away what would be an easy win for her in the supporting category.

 

Using the year of initial release completely changes my choices for 1946. If confined to the Oscar ballot, I'd easily pick Laurence Olivier for HENRY V and Celia Johnson for BRIEF ENCOUNTER. But now they've already competed in earlier years. I


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#392 Bogie56

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Posted 26 May 2016 - 07:18 PM

 

1946: Myrna Loy wasn’t nominated for THE BEST YEARS OF OUR LIVES, but she should have been, and in the supporting category, despite her top billing. In my view, Fredric March, Dana Andrews, and Teresa Wright have the starring roles, and Harold Russell also has more screen time than Loy. In THE YEARLING Jane Wyman has much less screen time than Gregory Peck or Claude Jarman, and this could also be considered a supporting role. Wyman wanted to be seen as a star, of course.

 

 

 

You could be right about Myrna Loy's part in Best Years, kingrat.  I have Teresa Wright in support for Best Years.  I don't know if there is a female lead in that film.

But I do feel Jane Wyman is one of the leads in The Yearling even if she has less screen time than the two males as you say.



#393 kingrat

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Posted 19 May 2016 - 10:12 AM

Thanks, Bogey. I'll have to add A MEDAL FOR BENNY to the list of films to be seen.

 

HOTEL BERLIN would make a great double feature with Rene Clement's LES MAUDITS. In HOTEL BERLIN some of the Nazis plan to escape via submarine to South America, and LES MAUDITS is about a group of Nazis who do just that.



#394 Bogie56

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Posted 19 May 2016 - 05:53 AM

I have some questions about 1945, while we're still sorting out 1944.

 

1. OPEN CITY - Although Anna Magnani has tons of star presence, I think this is a supporting role. The actor who plays the priest has the only lead.

 

2. HOTEL BERLIN - I think Helmut Dantine has the only leading role, with both Andrea King and Faye Emerson in the supporting category. Faye got bumped up to top billing when she married Elliott Roosevelt, but that doesn't make her part any bigger. If you haven't seen this film, it's worth seeking out. Imagine GRAND HOTEL set in the last few weeks of Nazi Germany. It's based on a novel by Vicki Baum, who also wrote GRAND HOTEL.

 

3. A TREE GROWS IN BROOKLYN - James Dunn won an Oscar for best supporting actor. Had the part been played by Fredric March or Spencer Tracy, it would have been perceived as a lead. Dunn has almost as much screen time as Dorothy McGuire, who, with Peggy Ann Garner, is obviously a lead. I'm content with leaving him in support, but it's a close call.

 

4. THE STRANGE AFFAIR OF UNCLE HARRY - Ella Raines as lead, Geraldine Fitzgerald as support?

 

Open City - Anna Magnani, supporting.  Aldo Fabrizi lead actor.

A Tree Grows In Brooklyn - James Dunn and Ted Donaldson, supporting.  Peggy Ann Garner and Dorothy McGuire both lead actress.

The Strange Affair of Uncle Harry - i'd have to see this one again to have an opinion.

I haven't seen Hotel Berlin.

 

Here are some other 1945 lead/supporting questions...

 

Oscar put J. Carrol Naish in the supporting category for A Medal For Benny.  I think this is little doubt that this was the lead performance in this film.  Naish probably ended up in the supporting category as he was traditionally a character actor.

 

There is probably a case to be made that Robert Mitchum’s role in Story of G.I. Joe was a lead one.  Oscar had him in the supporting category and I am leaving him there until I have the chance to see the film again.

 

Cornel Wilde’s part in A Song to Remember is almost in support of Paul Muni with the exception of the last half hour.  I’m leaving him in the lead category until I see the film again.


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#395 speedracer5

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Posted 18 May 2016 - 10:19 PM

 

I am putting Barry Fitzgerald in the lead category as I feel he was basically the co-star in Going My Way.  As you said, Fitzgerald would win the Best Actor award from the NYC Film Critics but they did not have a category for supporting actors at this time.

 

I'm afraid I have Ethel Barrymore in the supporting category for None But the Lonely Heart.  My feeling is that there was no lead actress in that film.  Grant flies solo.

 

Oscar put Claude Rains in the supporting category for Mr. Skeffington.  Perhaps the studio now viewed Rains as a character actor.  IMO I think this was a lead performance.

 

I also agree that Rains is a lead.  His character is the name of the film.  I also agree that the ending of the film makes it a lead role.


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#396 GregoryPeckfan

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Posted 18 May 2016 - 09:03 PM

I have some questions about 1945, while we're still sorting out 1944.

 

1. OPEN CITY - Although Anna Magnani has tons of star presence, I think this is a supporting role. The actor who plays the priest has the only lead.

 

2. HOTEL BERLIN - I think Helmut Dantine has the only leading role, with both Andrea King and Faye Emerson in the supporting category. Faye got bumped up to top billing when she married Elliott Roosevelt, but that doesn't make her part any bigger. If you haven't seen this film, it's worth seeking out. Imagine GRAND HOTEL set in the last few weeks of Nazi Germany. It's based on a novel by Vicki Baum, who also wrote GRAND HOTEL.

 

3. A TREE GROWS IN BROOKLYN - James Dunn won an Oscar for best supporting actor. Had the part been played by Fredric March or Spencer Tracy, it would have been perceived as a lead. Dunn has almost as much screen time as Dorothy McGuire, who, with Peggy Ann Garner, is obviously a lead. I'm content with leaving him in support, but it's a close call.

 

4. THE STRANGE AFFAIR OF UNCLE HARRY - Ella Raines as lead, Geraldine Fitzgerald as support?

I have not seen the first two films you mention, so I cannot help you there.

 

I'm not sure what to do about Harry or Brooklyn myself.

 

Bogie?


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#397 kingrat

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Posted 18 May 2016 - 08:12 PM

I have some questions about 1945, while we're still sorting out 1944.

 

1. OPEN CITY - Although Anna Magnani has tons of star presence, I think this is a supporting role. The actor who plays the priest has the only lead.

 

2. HOTEL BERLIN - I think Helmut Dantine has the only leading role, with both Andrea King and Faye Emerson in the supporting category. Faye got bumped up to top billing when she married Elliott Roosevelt, but that doesn't make her part any bigger. If you haven't seen this film, it's worth seeking out. Imagine GRAND HOTEL set in the last few weeks of Nazi Germany. It's based on a novel by Vicki Baum, who also wrote GRAND HOTEL.

 

3. A TREE GROWS IN BROOKLYN - James Dunn won an Oscar for best supporting actor. Had the part been played by Fredric March or Spencer Tracy, it would have been perceived as a lead. Dunn has almost as much screen time as Dorothy McGuire, who, with Peggy Ann Garner, is obviously a lead. I'm content with leaving him in support, but it's a close call.

 

4. THE STRANGE AFFAIR OF UNCLE HARRY - Ella Raines as lead, Geraldine Fitzgerald as support?

 


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#398 kingrat

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Posted 13 May 2016 - 01:57 PM

Actually, Fitzgerald's performance in AND THEN THERE WERE NONE is one of the few I find semi-palatable. He's playing a judge who's unjustly sent a man to the gallows. Creepy actor cast as creepy character.

 

More on the upcoming year 1944: I consider both Beatrice Lillie and Googie Withers to have leading roles in ON APPROVAL.


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#399 GregoryPeckfan

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Posted 11 May 2016 - 07:06 PM

As stated by the President of the "Barry Fitzgerald Gives Me The Creeps" Fan Club.

Really?

Does kingrat really not like Barry?

 

Must have been watching And Then There Were None...


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#400 TomJH

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Posted 11 May 2016 - 07:02 PM

 

 

It's just as easy not to vote for Barry Fitzgerald as a lead as it would have been not to vote for him in support.

 

As stated by the President of the "Barry Fitzgerald Gives Me The Creeps" Fan Club.


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