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Re: why is TCM becoming less classic
Posted: May 30, 2012 8:11 PM
in response to: TCMfan23
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TCM has been showing some great old movies for the past couple of weeks. Joel McCrea tonight, Barbara Stanwyck Tuesday morning, Crime Doctor movies tomorrow morning, Captain From Castile (1947) a week ago, Helen Hayes movies, Tallulah Bankhead, Ann Harding!
That's what we like to see!
CRIME DOCTOR films start early AM 5-31-12
For those who like Warner Baxter in the CRIME DOCTOR films, there will be several shown on Thursday morning, 5-31-12
Starting at 6 AM Eastern Time:
31 Thursday
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Re: Why is TCM becoming less classic?
Posted: May 30, 2012 2:35 PM
in response to: darkblue
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I suppose if one thought it was really a film all about taking supposed bits
from Euro art films of the past and putting them together just to copy them,
it would be just a second-rate movie. Clever, but not much more than that.
I don't see it that way, but as a film with its own vision.
Just for anyone's information, I read a brief account by Wenders of how he
came to have Peter Falk in the movie. Just after work on the filming had
started, Wenders decided he needed one more character, an ex-angel who
would help Bruno Ganz's angel get accustomed to life as a human. He thought
Falk would be perfect for the role. He called John Cassavetes and asked for
Falk's phone number and then called Falk and offered him the role, and though
there was no final script, Falk took the role. I never thought there was a shock,
because it was clear that Ganz was now living as a human and Falk, playing
an ex-angel, was the appropriate one to help him.
As much as I like Wings of Desire, I prefer Fassbinder.
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Re: Why is TCM becoming less classic?
Posted: May 30, 2012 11:13 AM
in response to: darkblue
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Still, he'll drag this discussion out forever to make sure he gets the last word in about a movie he didn't like enough to finish watching.
Exactly.
One thing I can't stand, and which is unfair, is forming opinions about something one has never watched or seen in its entirety.
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Re: Why is TCM becoming less classic?
Posted: May 30, 2012 12:47 AM
in response to: Bilgewasser
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That's Fred's point, I think. He thinks it's a second-rate film - he couldn't even bother to watch it all. What he did see, he misunderstood - but I'm pretty sure he's got it down now because of all the posts in this thread that have explained it to him.
Still, he'll drag this discussion out forever to make sure he gets the last word in about a movie he didn't like enough to finish watching.
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Re: Why is TCM becoming less classic?
Posted: May 30, 2012 12:26 AM
in response to: Bilgewasser
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Wings of Desire looks like Wings of Desire, because the director was
filming his own story, not anyone else's. A critic wouldn't call a film a
masterpiece if it was simply a copy of another group of films. It would
then simply be a second-rate film.
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Re: why is TCM becoming less classic
Posted: May 29, 2012 9:58 PM
in response to: ValentineXavier
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Hi VX,
Wings of Desire doesn't look like Beauty and the Beast. It looks like a Bergman film with some Fellini stuff thrown in.
See this:
About a Wenders documentary, 2011:
The film's motif of a single file of dancers each repeating a brief dance mantra from "The Four Seasons" winds up with them walking along a giant slag heap, silhouetted by the dying sun. The final image came to Wenders in the moment, knowing that he was quoting Ingmar Bergman's "The Seventh Seal." It felt right.
http://blogs.indiewire.com/thompsononhollywood/wim-wenders-talks-pina
European auteurs like Ingmar Bergman, Federico Fellini, and Wim Wenders also owe a debt to surrealism.
http://www.filmreference.com/encyclopedia/Romantic-Comedy-Yugoslavia/Surrealism-SURREALIST-CINEMA.html
In terms of film, Krouse likes his classic Euro-cinema heroes Federico Fellini, Ingmar Bergman and Wim Wenders.
http://www.whatzup.com/index.php?f=artist&page=Artist_Krouse_D
I just happened to come of age right when these types of Euro Art films were just turning up in the American Art theaters. If the theater had the word "Art" in its name, we knew we could see some good modern artistic European films (and a few artistic Japanese films too).
I first saw The Seventh Seal about 49 years ago, and the same with Seven Samurai and La Strada.
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Re: why is TCM becoming less classic
Posted: May 29, 2012 9:48 PM
in response to: FredCDobbs
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Fred, did you ever read the link below, posted a couple of days ago? It explains how Falk came to be picked, and how the hat scene got into the film. It is an excellent essay by Roger Ebert. It also points out that his cinematographer was the same guy who shot Cocteau's 1946 Beauty and the Beast. That was the look they were going for, and got. Not 60s European art films. I had previously said that it reminded me of Cocteau, not realizing the connection.
RMeingast wrote:
An excellent article by Roger Ebert about this film is available here:
http://peterfalk.com/WINGS.htm
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Re: why is TCM becoming less classic
Posted: May 29, 2012 8:46 PM
in response to: fxreyman
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What you are looking for is a commercial-free channel that shows modern movies without commercials.
Let me be perfectly clear with you Fred.
I am NOT looking for a commercial free channel to show modern movies without commercials. If that were the case then I wouldn't have soooo many modern films in my DVD movie collection, okay?
What I am advocating is that we should consider that films from all time periods can and should be considered classic. NOT ALL films, but that some films from all periods of time can and should be considered classic.
That's a fair comment. Read on.
The word classic is bandied around here to define ALL films made from the golden era of Hollywood. You know that this IS NOT the case. Not every film from before 1959 is a classic. There were a lot of duds made back then as well, just like today.
Yet you are also guilty because you refer to the "duds" as part of the GOLDEN ERA or GOLDEN AGE of Hollywood. The duds, as you call them, WERE part of that era so they are forever linked to the classics and have ridden on their coat tails into our psyche as classics of a stature perhaps lesser then the big guns, but classics nonetheless. Therefore the BOWERY BOYS films can be considered classic even though they were garbage made by a Poverty Row company like MONOGRAM.
And has been mentioned by someone else recently on this thread, many more films were produced in the 1920s, 1930s, and 1940s than today. So just by that measure alone, one could say that many of those films are not worth the moniker of classic.
Well, it is theoretically possible that all of those films could be classics and as I proved in my last paragraph they, to a certain extent, all are.
But that being said, who should decide what is and what is not a classic for the purpose of a film being shown on TCM. TCM does stand for turner CLASSIC movies after all and I'm sure you would be the first to agree that not every film TCM shows of any era is a classic by any stretch of the imagination. At least not in the terms of GONE WITH THE WIND or THE WIZARD OF OZ, if you believe they truly epitomize the classic in the term classic film. Or can it be that TCM is itself guilty of painting every film they show with that too broad brush stroke label of classic. You never hear ROBERT OSBORNE start or end a film with the following comments "wasn't that a lousy film" or "the next film we're going to watch is just plain BAD". The lack of an honest appraisal does kind of cheapen the word classic when applied to truly classic films like the two above if one puts them on the same level as MONSTER A GO GO or THE INCREDIBLE MELTING MAN. Of course there are different gradations of the term classic film. There are cult classics AND there are genre classics. Films like NIGHT OF THE LIVING DEAD are cult classics and also horror classics, hence their inclusion on TCM. But again, are they classics in the classic sense as GONE WITH THE WIND or THE WIZARD OF OZ are classics? What about porn classics like DEEP THROAT, BEHIND THE GREEN DOOR, or TABOO? For the porn genre they are as classic as NIGHT OF THE LIVING DEAD is to the horror genre. Yet I have yet to read a post from you requesting any porn classics. Yet if you are true to your position as a lover of all film you would embrace these films as well or at the least acknowldege that they are classics that deserve a place on TCM. Especially in light of the fact that TCM already shows nudity that can be considered soft core porn as opposed to the hard core variety. If, on the other hand, you say that porn classics have no place on TCM then you cannot, in all honesty, say anyone is wrong for complaining about modern classics being shown on TCM because now you are the one restricting a type of film for personal reasons not having to do with the films status as a classic.
One last thing:
I am NOT advocating that TCM show more modern films. What I am advocating is that they continue to populate the schedule with better, more recent films than what they are showing now. 24% of the films in May were produced after 1960. As far as I am concerned that is a good number of modern films to show on this channel. A number of modern films from 15% to 25% should be tolerated on a channel that has in it's charter indicates that they show films from every era up to the 1990's.
You may disagree with me, and that is fine. I have no problem with people indicating their desire that the channel show less modern films. My problem is when people continue to claim that TCM is going more modern each day, when in fact that is clearly not the case.
Of course as has been written here on this thread, it would seem that many folks do not want to use facts in their arguments. Instead they continue to use their opinions. And until they recognize that TCM is NOT going the way of AMC, we will be much better off for it.
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Re: why is TCM becoming less classic
Posted: May 29, 2012 8:39 PM
in response to: SansFin
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I found some articles today that might explain what I've been talking about, regarding Wings of Desire (1987). Wenders said that as a student he spoke against those old European Art Films that I liked so much as a young man in the early 1960s, but it seems that Wenders finally discovered his artistic European cinema roots.
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An article by Wim Wenders, 1988:
And, after another interval I see myself, by now a film-maker myself and in America, emerging from a cinema in San Francisco having cried buckets at a screening of Cries and Whispers, a film that made the "European cinema of Angst and introversion" that I'd despised ten years ago look like a long-lost home to me, somewhere I would be far happier in than here, in the "promised land" of the cinema where I was now, and where the "surface" that I'd once so admired had in the meantime become so smooth and hard that there was really nothing "behind" it any more. And if as a student I'd inveighed against that "deep" cinema, I now discovered in myself a longing for "depth", and felt more than reconciled to Ingmar Bergman.
http://bergmanorama.webs.com/wenders_july88.htm
About Wenders and European cinema, 2011:
Probably Wim Wenders represents European cinema best than any other living person: not just because he is the President of the European Film Academy (an institution estabilshed in 1988 in order to promote the art of European cinema) but also because his biography illustrates in a very clear way the relationship between national identity, common European vision and the US film industry.
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When asked by the German newspaper Der Spiegel about his film-making identity, Wenders refsed to be considered German, and wished to be considered European.
Despite the evasive meaning of this statement, Wenders expresses the prophetic vision that "European cinema could help a whole new generation of Europeans to recognize themselves, they could define what Europe is all about in emotional, powerful and lasting terms".
http://next-europe.info/2011/04/11/cinema/
November 2011:
Many critics have drawn comparisons between Wings of Desire and Michael Powell and Emeric Pressburger's 1946 film A Matter of Life and Death but, despite featuring a vastly similar plot to that somewhat overrated film, Wenders' masterpiece has more in common with Ingmar Bergman's The Seventh Seal (1957) or Andrei Tarkovsky's Stalker (1979), both of which are deeply introspective examinations of humanity and spirituality.
http://overcastfilm.wordpress.com/tag/wim-wenders/
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Re: why is TCM becoming less classic
Posted: May 29, 2012 5:41 PM
in response to: TCMfan23
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I was watching and enjoying movies before I could walk or talk. That was so long ago that those movies qualify now as classics.
I nearly never talked of movies in depth or attempted to analyze or compare them.
As I am new to these types of discussions I am a newbie
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Re: Why is TCM becoming less classic?
Posted: May 29, 2012 4:39 PM
in response to: darkblue
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don't know what you are talking about. I never called you a "beginner". You've been here since 07. Nobody called you a "beginner".
Really. Who were you calling a beginner then? You addressed fxreyman directly, highlighted his post and responded:
Yes, you are right. I guess I was thinking of the long-term posters here and not the beginners
Personally, I absolutely DESPISE terms and labels like "beginner" or "newbie", etc. I don't give a rat's patootie how long someone has been posting here on the boards or not...I myself have had a serious interest in movies since before I even became a teenager, and have pursued it my entire life without ever having anything to do professionally or educationally about the business.
Regardless of what's being clarified here, Fred referred to "beginners"....regardless to whom he was directing that comment to....and I found it insulting, either way.
That was just my...
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Re: Why is TCM becoming less classic?
Posted: May 29, 2012 4:01 PM
in response to: darkblue
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LOL, you guys are joking, right.
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Re: Why is TCM becoming less classic?
Posted: May 29, 2012 3:54 PM
in response to: FredCDobbs
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don't know what you are talking about. I never called you a "beginner". You've been here since 07. Nobody called you a "beginner".
Really. Who were you calling a beginner then? You addressed fxreyman directly, highlighted his post and responded:
Yes, you are right. I guess I was thinking of the long-term posters here and not the beginners
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Re: Why is TCM becoming less classic?
Posted: May 29, 2012 3:03 PM
in response to: fxreyman
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Well, it is so nice to know that even after five years of writing on this board I am still considered a beginner, since I have no connections to the film industry. Wow, and here I thought I had valuable and interesting things to say here.
I don't know what you are talking about. I never called you a "beginner". You've been here since 07. Nobody called you a "beginner".
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Re: Why is TCM becoming less classic?
Posted: May 29, 2012 2:42 PM
in response to: FredCDobbs
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Yes, you are right. I guess I was thinking of the long-term posters here and not the beginners.
Well, it is so nice to know that even after five years of writing on this board I am still considered a beginner, since I have no connections to the film industry. Wow, and here I thought I had valuable and interesting things to say here.
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