TheCid

Future of Democratic Party?

835 posts in this topic

Bernie doesn't want his donors (millions of little people) being lied to. That's a pretty good reason to not expose their names to the DNC - the DNC only wants to hound them.

 

I agree.  Of course the DNC establishment wishes to bring these Bernie supporters into the fold so they get their vote by making promises they have no intention of keeping. 

 

The larger point I was making is that the Dem party might not be able to get enough progressives to toe-the-line of the DNC establishment to defeat GOP candidates in future elections.

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I agree.  Of course the DNC establishment wishes to bring these Bernie supporters into the fold so they get their vote by making promises they have no intention of keeping. 

 

The larger point I was making is that the Dem party might not be able to get enough progressives to toe-the-line of the DNC establishment to defeat GOP candidates in future elections.

What promises they have no intention of keeping?

Regardless, it appears the "progressive/liberal" factions are the ones primarily to blame.  Their attitude is: If we can't have our platform and our guy, we won't participate.  Welcome to how Donald John Trump became President of the United States.

Also need to remember that Sanders is NOT a Democrat, I repeat NOT a Democrat.  He is an independent and only ran for the Democratic nomination because he did not have the courage to run as an independent as many others have.

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What promises they have no intention of keeping?

Regardless, it appears the "progressive/liberal" factions are the ones primarily to blame.  Their attitude is: If we can't have our platform and our guy, we won't participate.  Welcome to how Donald John Trump became President of the United States.

Also need to remember that Sanders is NOT a Democrat, I repeat NOT a Democrat.  He is an independent and only ran for the Democratic nomination because he did not have the courage to run as an independent as many others have.

 

The DNC isn't going to push for laws that are perceived by their corporate sponsors as hurting their industries.

 

Of course since you are a moderate Dem you believe the ones primarily to blame are the progressives and progressives believe the opposite.    See post from Bella.

 

Regardless of who is to blame what is going down only helps the GOP retain power at all levels of government.  

 

The fact that Sanders and by extension many of his supporters are NOT Dems only makes the GOP that much happier. 

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What promises they have no intention of keeping?

Regardless, it appears the "progressive/liberal" factions are the ones primarily to blame.  Their attitude is: If we can't have our platform and our guy, we won't participate.  Welcome to how Donald John Trump became President of the United States.

Also need to remember that Sanders is NOT a Democrat, I repeat NOT a Democrat.  He is an independent and only ran for the Democratic nomination because he did not have the courage to run as an independent as many others have.

 

You ain't see nothing yet.

 

If Bernie decides to take his politics elsewhere, you can say goodbye to the Democratic Party.

 

His new Party will become larger than the Establishment Party. Why they're not doing what he asks, considering that, is a sure sign that they have confidence in the Corporate MIC's ability to crush him if it needs to.

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I wouldn't worry too much about the Democrats. Each party

goes through some rough patches electorally. One party

in a two party system can always depend on being the other

party when people are temporarily fed up with the party in

power.

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What promises they have no intention of keeping?

Regardless, it appears the "progressive/liberal" factions are the ones primarily to blame.  Their attitude is: If we can't have our platform and our guy, we won't participate.  Welcome to how Donald John Trump became President of the United States.

Also need to remember that Sanders is NOT a Democrat, I repeat NOT a Democrat.  He is an independent and only ran for the Democratic nomination because he did not have the courage to run as an independent as many others have.

 

He may not have a (D) after his name, but Bernie represents traditional Democratic values more than any DINOs in the current party leadership.  If someone like Elizabeth Warren (who turned out to be a big disappointment) had stepped up to the plate, he probably wouldn't have run at all.

 

A big part of the problem is that the Democrats have turned their backs on their base in favor of their big corporate donors.  Remember this quote from Chuck Schumer:  "For every blue-collar Democrat we lose in western Pennsylvania, we will pick up two moderate Republicans in the suburbs in Philadelphia, and you can repeat that in Ohio and Illinois and Wisconsin.”  Yeah, that strategy worked out real well, didn't it?  With that kind of attitude, they shouldn't expect the working class to return to the fold anytime soon.

 

Trump certainly isn't of the working class, but he sure knew how to talk to them. 

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Trump certainly isn't of the working class, but he sure knew how to talk to them. 

 

Dems can't even be bothered to try anymore - unless it's Hillary doing her phony imitations.

 

Whole new gen seeing right through now. As the boomers die off, so will go the Party unless it changes back to what it's supposed to be.

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The DNC isn't going to push for laws that are perceived by their corporate sponsors as hurting their industries.

 

Of course since you are a moderate Dem you believe the ones primarily to blame are the progressives and progressives believe the opposite.    See post from Bella.

 

Regardless of who is to blame what is going down only helps the GOP retain power at all levels of government.  

 

 

What post from Bella?

The Democrats have not turned their backs on their base.  Their base turned their backs on the Dems and voted for Trump because he appealed to their worst instincts. 

The Democrats over the past 70 years and up until 2010 were the ones who enacted all the progressive/liberal legislation and regulations that Trump and the Republicans are now overturning.  They enacted all the legislation restricting corporations and protecting people, the environment, the land, etc.  That's pretty damn "progressive."

Seems to me that some people cannot accept that corporations and businesses are an essential part of America.  More importantly they are a key component of politics from the school board to the White House.

 

Regardless, the problem for the Dems is that they must unite and they must present candidates for whom a majority of people will vote.

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He may not have a (D) after his name, but Bernie represents traditional Democratic values more than any DINOs in the current party leadership.  If someone like Elizabeth Warren (who turned out to be a big disappointment) had stepped up to the plate, he probably wouldn't have run at all.

 

A big part of the problem is that the Democrats have turned their backs on their base in favor of their big corporate donors.  Remember this quote from Chuck Schumer:  "For every blue-collar Democrat we lose in western Pennsylvania, we will pick up two moderate Republicans in the suburbs in Philadelphia, and you can repeat that in Ohio and Illinois and Wisconsin.”  Yeah, that strategy worked out real well, didn't it?  With that kind of attitude, they shouldn't expect the working class to return to the fold anytime soon.

 

Trump certainly isn't of the working class, but he sure knew how to talk to them. 

Don't know what state you live in, but Bernie and Warren are perceived as being too far to the left for the vast majority of Americans.  They do not represent "traditional Democratic values," but rather extreme liberalism or socialism.  Bernie is a socialist and proud of it.

I still believe that if Warren had run, Trump would have won both the electoral college and popular votes.

The "DINO's in the current party leadership" are all considered to be progressive or liberal by every reputable source out there.  

More importantly, most recognize the value of cooperation with others and the necessity of working with the corporations.  See my response to james.

As for Trump, he lied and his supporters bought it.

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Don't know what state you live in, but Bernie and Warren are perceived as being too far to the left for the vast majority of Americans.  They do not represent "traditional Democratic values," but rather extreme liberalism or socialism.  Bernie is a socialist and proud of it.

I still believe that if Warren had run, Trump would have won both the electoral college and popular votes.

The "DINO's in the current party leadership" are all considered to be progressive or liberal by every reputable source out there.  

More importantly, most recognize the value of cooperation with others and the necessity of working with the corporations.  See my response to james.

As for Trump, he lied and his supporters bought it.

 

 

 

For the past 10 years, we've lived in IA, and participated in the evil caucuses in both 2008 and 2016.  As we live in one of the larger cities here, Bernie did very well in our district, receiving an equal number of delegates as HRC.  However, we are an anomaly, as the larger rural population skews much more conservative (hence the election of Joni Ernst to replace long time Dem. Senator Tom Harkin).  Considering the massive head start HRC had in money, name recognition and, of course, having the backing of super delegates before a single vote was cast, it's amazing how strong a showing Bernie made in the state as a whole.  But, the DNC couldn't allow the momentum to continue unchecked.

 

I didn't mean to insinuate that Warren would have beaten Trump (not saying that Bernie definitely would have either, as some people assert), only that if she had come forward then Bernie probably would not have run, but would have supported her candidacy instead. 

 

Of course, Trump lied.  He was just being a politician. 

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For the past 10 years, we've lived in IA, and participated in the evil caucuses in both 2008 and 2016.  As we live in one of the larger cities here, Bernie did very well in our district, receiving an equal number of delegates as HRC.  However, we are an anomaly, as the larger rural population skews much more conservative (hence the election of Joni Ernst to replace long time Dem. Senator Tom Harkin).  Considering the massive head start HRC had in money, name recognition and, of course, having the backing of super delegates before a single vote was cast, it's amazing how strong a showing Bernie made in the state as a whole.  But, the DNC couldn't allow the momentum to continue unchecked.

 

I didn't mean to insinuate that Warren would have beaten Trump (not saying that Bernie definitely would have either, as some people assert), only that if she had come forward then Bernie probably would not have run, but would have supported her candidacy instead. 

 

Of course, Trump lied.  He was just being a politician. 

This discussion will contine forever, but one point you made is how well Sanders did in your district, but not so well in the rural areas.  Actually I believe that having some liberals is a good thing as it keeps the party (or country) moving in a better direction.

But, the reality is whoever gets elected sets the destination for the country.  And that is the problem for the Democrats for the next several elections.  Getting elected and changing the direction of the country.

As for superdelegates, I'll bet there are still a lot of people in the Republican Party who wish they had had them so they could have stopped Trump and put a more intelligent/reasonable/competent Republican in the White House.

My fear, and that of many people, was that Sanders/Warren/Pelosi offend too many people who actually vote and that hurts Democrats.  

As the DNC is beginning to acknowledge, winning the presidency doesn't matter a whole lot if you lose the Senate, the House, the governorships and the state legislatures.

The DNC needs to acknowledge the desires of the progressive liberals, but they also need to acknowledge the reality of how politics in America actually works.  And where the money comes from.

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Darrell Issa receives heat in California.

Federal court rules that Texas districts were gerrymandered to hurt minorities.  Redrawing required.

Maybe there is hope for the Democrats in 2018.

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Texas redistricting case makes it official: Courts are rigging the game ... and it's entirely legal 

A gerrymandering case out of Texas serves to further prove the point that the judiciary is rigging the game against Republican candidates — and it’s all completely legal. Late Friday, a panel of federal judges threw out three of Texas’ congressional districts — because racism. This further highlights how the federal judiciary is using provisions of the Voting Rights Act to rig elections in favor of Democrat candidates.

 

CONSERVATIVE REVIEW >> https://www.conservativereview.com/commentary/2017/03/texas-redistricting-case-makes-it-official-courts-are-rigging-the-game-and-its-entirely-legal

 

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Texas redistricting case makes it official: Courts are rigging the game ... and it's entirely legal 

 

Actually, the courts are un-rigging the rigging of the game by Republicans.

 

So, of course it's legal. And necessary.

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Brazile: Sending Clinton town hall topics ‘mistake I will forever regret’

 

And we will never forget.

 

Go away and don't come back.

 

In terms of being any kind of servant to the people of the nation, you're a worthless loser.

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Do you want a free BMW? Hell yes.

 

The problem is people vote for other reasons than the

purely economic. They vote on general cultural and

social issues. That's why the Dems are unlikely to win

West Virginia in a presidential election anytime soon,

whoever their candidate is. 

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The problem is people vote for other reasons than the purely economic. They vote on general cultural and social issues. 

 

Not you. You're a bum.

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Watch this to the very end if you can.

 

I watched it and actually saw clips before this.  The problem is that the middle class and working class seldom vote on actual economic issues as they effect them.  They vote on cultural, religious, social and other issues.  A large number of them also vote along racial lines.

While these "town hall" meetings may convince some of the attendees, it is the large number of voters whom the Democrats must convince.

Ask anyone if they want more pay, more medical coverage, etc. and everyone will say yes.  Yet, they do not vote that way because other issues confuse them or mislead them.

The economic issues they do vote on are the ones tailored by the Republicans and super wealthy and corporations to appear to benefit the middle and working classes.  But, in reality they don't.

 

Republicans are also quite adept at framing tax issues so that it appears they will hurt the working and middle classes more than the rich or corporations.

South Carolina is having its annual war over whether or not to raise the gas tax, second lowest in the nation.  Alaska is lowest.  The corporations and wealthy, many out of state, are exercising tremendous influence to defeat it.  Which is ironic because the S.C. Chamber of Commerce supports it.  The Republicans are divided, with some being adamant they will never support it.  The governor vowed to veto it.

S.C. also limits the sales tax on vehicles to $300 and an increase to being debated.  This is an example of where certain wealthy, conservative or Republican individuals and groups are framing it as something that will hurt the average person.  When in reality, it will matter little to them.  These groups are opposed mainly because they want to eliminate all taxes on corporations and the wealthy.

 

I find it ironic that two of the most vocal spokesmen were proud of being in unions.  Yet the rank and file union members are the ones that religiously vote for Republicans and voted overwhelmingly for Trump.  Not to mention that millions of workers have abandoned the unions.

Sanders biggest problem is that he is out of touch with reality in the United States as a whole.  His soak the rich tax scheme just will not gain traction in the red and purple states.  He and the Democrats need to find a better way to frame the methods of paying for it.

They still need to focus on why their core groups abandoned them.  It was not just about the economy as it effects the working and middle classes.

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