TomJH

Racism in Trump's America

1,706 posts in this topic

 Yet again,  due to having an agenda, you misinterpret the point I'm making.

 

Yes,  Trump empowered white supremacist.    Therefore if empowered white supremacist where on the losing end (Clinton had won the election),   the feeling of doom would have lead to supreme anger and we would be seeing more hate crimes than we are seeing today.    

 

Hey,  it is just a theory that of course can't be proven or disproven.

 

So your argument is that we should be thankful Trump won because if not there would be more hate crimes? Or are you not making an argument at all? If not, what's the point of your post? Simply to disagree with Princess?

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So your argument is that we should be thankful Trump won because if not there would be more hate crimes? Or are you not making an argument at all? If not, what's the point of your post? Simply to disagree with Princess?

 

My reply to Princess was mistaken by saying 'isn't it more logical,,,'   in that it looked like I disagreed with her but instead I should of stated I was adding to what she was saying.    So yes, Larry I made a mistake.     

 

But I still believe this:  That if Clinton has won the racist and bigoted losers would have acted out even more than they are now, but I see your point that the point I'm making is irrelevant.

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No, not at all.  Trump has empowered these white supremacists.  They feel free to come out of the woodwork now.  This would hardly be an issue unless Trump wasn't drumming up the hatred and fear day in and day out.  

That's pretty much the way it is where I live.  They were vocal before, but now they are more vocal and have been proven to be correct in their thinking (in their minds.)

As for actual crimes, demonstrations, etc., I believe there has been an increase.  In the minds of the racists, alt-right, bigots, etc., they believe that now the governments are either on their side or will not do anything to punish them.  Could be they are right.

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That's pretty much the way it is where I live.  They were vocal before, but now they are more vocal and have been proven to be correct in their thinking (in their minds.)

As for actual crimes, demonstrations, etc., I believe there has been an increase.  In the minds of the racists, alt-right, bigots, etc., they believe that now the governments are either on their side or will not do anything to punish them.  Could be they are right.

 

The only way to head this off is for the Trump administration to make a very loud and clear statement condemning such activity, perhaps even having AG Sessions make an indictment or two for federal hate crimes, that would show that the administration does not approve or condone these attacks. But I think that they know that by doing so they would run the risk of alienating a portion of their voting base.

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No, not at all.  Trump has empowered these white supremacists.  They feel free to come out of the woodwork now.  This would hardly be an issue unless Trump wasn't drumming up the hatred and fear day in and day out.  Where do you get these ideas?

 

Absolutely. The bigots feeling brasher than ever before thanks to Trump's victory. For proof, look at some of the comments you see from some Trump boosters (one in particular) on these boards. I don't believe we would have seen those kind of comments if Trump had been defeated during the Republican nomination process.

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Absolutely. The bigots feeling brasher than ever before thanks to Trump's victory. For proof, look at some of the comments you see from some Trump boosters (one in particular) on these boards. I don't believe we would have seen those kind of comments if Trump had been defeated during the Republican nomination process.

 

Larry convinced me that my point (which was that there would be more violence by the racist if Clinton had won) was irrelevant but it appears people wish to discuss it:    

 

My view is that instead of the Dem \ progressive protests we are seeing today as a result of Trump being the President (which are generally peaceful) if Clinton had won we would be seeing a lot more right-wing protest and these protest would have been a lot uglier and violent than the Dem \ progressive protest.

 

If I understand Bogie and you (Tom) the two of you believe that if Clinton had won the bigots would have crawled back into the woodwork (e.g.  been less vocal and less hate crimes).     With Trump as President they feel they now have political representation.   With Clinton as President more of these racist would have felt there was no political ally for their cause in DC and therefore their only option was violence.

 

PS:  To me Princess had it down when she said:

 

"Sadly Trump's racist, bigoted and Un-American rhetoric during his campaign has opened a Pandora's Box of Violent white racism, which seemingly he has sanctioned".

 

I.e.  the fire was lit during the campaign.    Trump's unexpected win reduced the size of the fire while a Clinton win would have added more fuel. 

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I.e.  the fire was lit during the campaign.    Trump's unexpected win reduced the size of the fire while a Clinton win would have added more fuel. 

 

Yes, Trump did light the fire during the campaign.

 

But with his victory the deplorables within his camp think they have won, too. His victory, and everyone knew he was appealing to racists, has validated their dark beliefs, in the minds of many of them. Look at the increase in acts of anti-Semitism since Trump's victory. Look at the butchery of six innocent Muslims at prayer in a Canadian mosque by a Trump admirer.

 

A Clinton victory, which would have been regarded as a defeat for these cowardly bigots, I strongly believe would have put them back under a rock to a large extent. Now, though, they feel emboldened, thinking that if they perform a vile act against a minority group, there are people within the White House in approval (even if secretively) of their behaviour.

 

With Trump as President, many racists feel "one of their own" is finally in charge.

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Yes, Trump did light the fire during the campaign.

 

But with his victory the deplorables within his camp think they have won, too. His victory, and everyone knew he was appealing to racists, has validated their dark beliefs, in the minds of many of them. Look at the increase in acts of anti-Semitism since Trump's victory. Look at the butchery of six innocent Muslims at prayer in a Canadian mosque by a Trump admirer.

 

A Clinton victory, which would have been regarded as a defeat for these cowardly bigots, I strongly believe would have put them back under a rock to a large extent. Now, though, they feel emboldened, thinking that if they perform a vile act against a minority group, there are people within the White House in approval (even if secretively) of their behaviour.

 

With Trump as President, many racists feel "one of their own" is finally in charge.

Not only is "one of their own" in charge, but he is appointing people who either support bigotry and racism or will turn a blind eye to it in order to accomplish their goals.

Under Clinton, the federal government would be far more likely to take action and as a minimum publicly decry them.  This would filter down to state and local levels to a great extent, even Republican ones.

The Republican officials would have seen a Clinton victory as a repudiation of the bigotry and racism inflamed by Trump and his supporters.  This would be a potential threat to them being reelected in next elections.

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Not only is "one of their own" in charge, but he is appointing people who either support bigotry and racism or will turn a blind eye to it in order to accomplish their goals.

Under Clinton, the federal government would be far more likely to take action and as a minimum publicly decry them.  This would filter down to state and local levels to a great extent, even Republican ones.

The Republican officials would have seen a Clinton victory as a repudiation of the bigotry and racism inflamed by Trump and his supporters.  This would be a potential threat to them being reelected in next elections.

 

Great followup on my comment.

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With Trump as President, many racists feel "one of their own" is finally in charge.

 

This is one of my major "peeves" come every election.

 

"Will he be a good LEADER?"  or  "He doesn't have the ability to LEAD"  and some such crap.

 

Thing is, we don't elect these clowns to LEAD.  We elect them to SERVE.  And they should never be considered to be "in charge".  They're  our  EMPLOYEES.

 

 

Sepiatone

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This is one of my major "peeves" come every election.

 

"Will he be a good LEADER?"  or  "He doesn't have the ability to LEAD"  and some such crap.

 

Thing is, we don't elect these clowns to LEAD.  We elect them to SERVE.  And they should never be considered to be "in charge".  They're  our  EMPLOYEES.

 

 

Sepiatone

 

Better not say that to Trump. He might give you a nasty tweet.

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Yes, Trump did light the fire during the campaign.

 

But with his victory the deplorables within his camp think they have won, too. His victory, and everyone knew he was appealing to racists, has validated their dark beliefs, in the minds of many of them. Look at the increase in acts of anti-Semitism since Trump's victory. Look at the butchery of six innocent Muslims at prayer in a Canadian mosque by a Trump admirer.

 

A Clinton victory, which would have been regarded as a defeat for these cowardly bigots, I strongly believe would have put them back under a rock to a large extent. Now, though, they feel emboldened, thinking that if they perform a vile act against a minority group, there are people within the White House in approval (even if secretively) of their behaviour.

 

With Trump as President, many racists feel "one of their own" is finally in charge.

 

I believe it was his victory in the GOP primary that was the primary factor that sparked the deplorables into 'action'.   I.e. if Trump had been defeated in the GOP primary the deplorables would have gone back into the shadows.   But once Trump was the GOP candidate this 'normalized' the deplorables since they now had 'their man' having a very legit shot at becoming President.  

 

So we can agree to disagree here;  I don't think a Clinton win (unless it was a landslide) would have made them go back into the shadows since securing the GOP nomination was a major prize for these clowns.   

 

PS: Yes,  Cid's comments are a great follow-up as to the deporables political reality if Clinton had won and I agree with them.   But doesn't his comment support my point: I.e. that with little to no political options for the deporables with Clinton in the White-House and GOP politicians distancing themselves from the deporables so they are on the 'right side of history'  (really just for their own self-serving election goals),  the only option for the deporables would have been protest and violence.

 

Anyhow,  all of what I said is just meaningless speculation.  

Edited by jamesjazzguitar

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I just heard on NPR about the desecration of a historic Jewish cemetery in Philadelphia. More than 100 gravestones were toppled by vandals over the weekend.

 

This is the kind of thing that's been going on in France for decades due to the rise of the LePen National Front-- a far right wing political party with its roots in anti-Semitism and hatred of Arab and black Muslims.

 

The National Front is led by Marine Le Pen. She has aligned her movement with Donald Trump.

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I just heard on NPR about the desecration of a historic Jewish cemetery in Philadelphia. More than 100 gravestones were toppled by vandals.

 

This is the kind of thing that's been going on in France for decades due to the rise of the LePen National Front-- a far right wing political party with its roots in anti-semitism and hatred of Arab and black Muslims.

 

The National Front is led by Marine Le Pen. She has aligned her movement with Donald Trump.

 

I really wonder who is behind these desecrations.    I assumed it was pro Palestinian \ anti-Israel settlement folks as a result of Israel's shameless and illegal settlement expansion. 

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I really wonder who is behind these desecrations.    I assumed it was pro Palestinian \ anti-Israel settlement folks as a result of Israel's shameless and illegal settlement expansion. 

 

In America?  Are not white supremacist neo-nazis more likely?  i would think most Palestian Americans are happy keeping their heads down.

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I really wonder who is behind these desecrations.    I assumed it was pro Palestinian \ anti-Israel settlement folks as a result of Israel's shameless and illegal settlement expansion. 

 

Not likely. It's probably neo-Nazis/Skinheads. This is their style. Get drunk and knock over tombstones and high-five each for their powerful attack on the Zionist conspiracy.

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This story is months old.  What's your point?  

 

Since he didn't feel like responding (can he, without a video?) I'll respond for him:

 

"Since one alleged act of racial violence and/or vandalism was proven to be the work of a supposed victim using the Trump name as a scapegoat, therefore all alleged acts of racial or religious-based violence and/or vandalism should be dismissed or ignored, or at the very least not connected to Trump and his administration."

 

<_<

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Since he didn't feel like responding (can he, without a video?) I'll respond for him:

 

"Since one alleged act of racial violence and/or vandalism was proven to be the work of a supposed victim using the Trump name as a scapegoat, therefore all alleged acts of racial or religious-based violence and/or vandalism should be dismissed or ignored, or at the very least not connected to Trump and his administration."

 

<_<

Thank you Lawrence for your high powered perception, you should put a job resume in to the cable news networks.
But seriously, I didn't respond to Bogie's post because I didn't want to waste a rat trap on a mouse. So thank you again.

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Since he didn't feel like responding (can he, without a video?) I'll respond for him:

 

"Since one alleged act of racial violence and/or vandalism was proven to be the work of a supposed victim using the Trump name as a scapegoat, therefore all alleged acts of racial or religious-based violence and/or vandalism should be dismissed or ignored, or at the very least not connected to Trump and his administration."

 

<_<

 

Yes, very well said.  Plus it's a rather lame attempt to shift the focus from serious issues by trying to force the conversation elsewhere.  It is what Trump does every day when he says something that is so blatantly false.   When everyone points this out they are also repeating his falsehoods which is his intent as it forces the dialogue where he wants it to go.  That's why I asked 'what's the point' in regards to that Highway post.  But he or she was obviously trying to deflect the dialogue so there really was no answer, was there.

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Yes, very well said.  Plus it's a rather lame attempt to shift the focus from serious issues by trying to force the conversation elsewhere.  It is what Trump does every day when he says something that is so blatantly false.   When everyone points this out they are also repeating his falsehoods which is his intent as it forces the dialogue where he wants it to go.  That's why I asked 'what's the point' in regards to that Highway post.  But he or she was obviously trying to deflect the dialogue so there really was no answer, was there.

The Plot Thickens

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Better not say that to Trump. He might give you a nasty tweet.

 

And I'll bet the rent that he'd end it with the word "sad".  ;)   But since I'm NOT a "twit"(meaning I don't bother with Twitter) it wouldn't be likely.  ;)

 

 

Sepiatone

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