VivLeighFan

Share your unpopular opinions here!

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For me, it's not so much his looks, though I do think he's most attractive at his peak during the 1950s. But what I like about him is the persona that he brings to the screen. He's self-assured, a bit world weary, a bit cynical, but not bitter or pessimistic. He's intelligent and charming. He's a bit of an every man, not too cocky, not arrogant, not pretentious, he is who he is. What you see is what you get with him. I find those qualities attractive.

 

Unfortunately I discovered Bill Holden late in his life. And what was totally amazing to me is how, even in his later years, he maintained all of those qualities, adroitly listed above by Speedracer, that he had possessed in the 50s and 60s.

 

For me Network was the culmination of his screen Persona--how he put it all together in terms of what he brought to the Golden Age of Hollywood Male Mystique.

 

He came straight out of the Clark Gable, Spencer Tracy, Humphrey Bogart door-- actors who were men who took acting seriously, took drinking and living seriously and would never disappoint you when you actually met them in person because what they had on the screen they had in real life.

 

Holden represented that starting with Billy Wilder's Sunset Boulevard, to his Oscar for Wilder's Stalag 17, right through to his fantastic triumph in

The Bridge on the River Kwai.

 

Bill Holden of the 1950's will always be remembered as the symbolic male

anti-hero of that post-war era.

 

Holden was the good-looking loser-- smart enough to know the score, but not wise enough to avoid the trap.

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Oh I got quite a few on here....hope I myself don't get the pitchfork, lol. Here goes:

1. I love Paint Your Wagon.

2. I prefer the Spencer Tracy version of Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde over the Fredric March version.

3. I prefer Jack Nicholson's Joker over Heath Ledger's.

4. I like the 1954 Judy Garland version of A Star is Born more than the 1937 film (though I do like the 1937 film just not as much as the Garland/Mason film).

5. I don't much care for Meryl Streep in almost any movie she has starred in.

6. I know they were close friends, but I never liked any of the films that Mickey Rooney and Judy Garland did together nor did I care for the Andy Hardy series.

7. As much as I love Judy Garland in A Star is Born, I can't begrudge Grace Kelly her Oscar win for the Country Girl....I honestly wish it could have been a tie so I could have my Judy and Grace at the same time!

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Maybe pet peeves more than unpopular opinions.

1. Does TCM really need three whole days of war movies every single Memorial Day weekend? It's one of those weekends I get to watch TCM live, and it's all war all day and night for three days. And it is generally just one war - WWII.  I think special programming on one day would suffice.

2. I love the artful awkwardness of the very early talkies. I wish they would play more from 1929 and 1930.

3. Could TCM please play ALL of the Private Screening episodes in order sometime? Just because RO is dead is no reason to erase his image from the channel. His birthday this coming May would be a good day for that. Also put them ALL together in one DVD set in the Warner Archive so we can buy them all in one place.

4. Less "word of mouth" shorts between films and more of the vintage shorts please.

5. I am not looking forward to a month of Lana Turner movies next month. I always thought she was pretty limited in range.

6. I don't like Gigi at all. Strip away the art design and the musical numbers and all you really have are a bunch of older authority figures - including relatives - and one very selfish would be lover  pushing a young girl into a life of prostitution from which there is no exit.  How is this any different from "The Primrose Path"???

 

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15 hours ago, Bethluvsfilms said:

Oh I got quite a few on here....hope I myself don't get the pitchfork, lol. Here goes:

1. I love Paint Your Wagon.

2. I prefer the Spencer Tracy version of Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde over the Fredric March version.

3. I prefer Jack Nicholson's Joker over Heath Ledger's.

4. I like the 1954 Judy Garland version of A Star is Born more than the 1937 film (though I do like the 1937 film just not as much as the Garland/Mason film).

5. I don't much care for Meryl Streep in almost any movie she has starred in.

6. I know they were close friends, but I never liked any of the films that Mickey Rooney and Judy Garland did together nor did I care for the Andy Hardy series.

7. As much as I love Judy Garland in A Star is Born, I can't begrudge Grace Kelly her Oscar win for the Country Girl....I honestly wish it could have been a tie so I could have my Judy and Grace at the same time!

I like Cesar Romero's Joker over both Jack Nicholson and Heath Ledger's.  Lol.

I also prefer the Judy Garland A Star is Born over the Janet Gaynor version.  I don't know what it is about Gaynor, but there is something about her that bugs me.  

I'm not a big fan of Meryl Streep either, but I will admit that I liked her in The Devil Wears Prada and Julie & Julia.  What I do appreciate about Streep, is that she's pretty much accomplished everything she can in film, so now she's appearing in the most random movies.  She isn't particularly taking on prestige roles like Sophie's Choice, but appears to be taking on roles which will seem fun, i.e. Mamma Mia or Florence Foster Jenkins

I am not a fan of Mickey Rooney at all, there's just something about his on screen personality which is off putting. Though he is fine in a handful of films, like National Velvet.  But I can tolerate him with Judy Garland.  Maybe Judy mellows him out.  I don't know.  But I like Judy and Mickey's films together, but am not a fan of Mickey on his own.  I have never seen any of the Andy Hardy films.  I would probably check them out just to see early film appearances by Judy, Lana Turner, Esther Williams and (ugh) Kathryn Grayson (as long as she doesn't sing!)

I really liked Judy in A Star is Born and Grace Kelly in The Country Girl.  I thought Judy was fantastic, especially in "The Man That Got Away" torch song.  Had Warner Brothers not chopped up Judy's film, she may have won.  It could also be that Judy's reputation preceded her and the Academy didn't want to recognize her comeback by awarding her with an Oscar.  Who knows? On the other hand, Academy voters seem to love when a glamour queen purposely tones it down and even "frumps it up" to look less glamorous, and even plain, on screen.  Not only did Kelly look noticeably dowdy in his film, she even portrays a very cynical, and bitter woman.  It's definitely a contrast to her image in Rear Window. In my opinion, if anyone from The Country Girl deserved an Oscar, it was Bing Crosby.   

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1 hour ago, calvinnme said:

 

2. I love the artful awkwardness of the very early talkies. I wish they would play more from 1929 and 1930.

 

So calvinnme, does this mean your very favorite scene in Singin' in the Rain is this one here?...

007-Singin-in-the-Rain-1952-The-Director

;)

(...I gotta admit every time I watch Douglas Fowley there in that film yell out "ROLL 'em" and more and more frustrated each and every time he does, I always get a good laugh out of it anyway)

 

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3 minutes ago, Dargo said:

So calvinnme, does this mean your very favorite scene in Singin' in the Rain is this one here?...

007-Singin-in-the-Rain-1952-The-Director

;)

(...I gotta admit every time I watch Douglas Fowley there in that film yell out "ROLL 'em" and more and more frustrated each and every time he does, I always get a good laugh out of it anyway)

 

I CAN'T MAKE LOVE TO A BUSH!

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Just now, Dargo said:

So calvinnme, does this mean your very favorite scene in Singin' in the Rain is this one here?...

007-Singin-in-the-Rain-1952-The-Director

;)

(...I gotta admit every time I watch Douglas Fowley there in that film yell out "ROLL 'em" and more and more frustrated each and every time he does, I always get a good laugh out of it anyway)

 

Pretty much. That and the composite scenes of all of the musical numbers they were supposedly shooting weeks after The Jazz Singer.  They couldn't do any of that sort of thing until Busby Berkeley in 1932-1933. But it makes for a dynamite montage. I think Jean Hagen - who had a perfectly fine speaking voice - was trying to talk like Judy Holliday and behave like Norma Talmadge.

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6 minutes ago, speedracer5 said:

I CAN'T MAKE LOVE TO A BUSH!

LOL

Now speedy, doesn't Lina actually say there, "I CAYN'T MAKE LOVE TO A BUSH!" ?!

(...phonetically speaking anyway) ;)

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4 minutes ago, calvinnme said:

 I think Jean Hagen - who had a perfectly fine speaking voice - was trying to talk like Judy Holliday and behave like Norma Talmadge.

It's funny to think that in the scene where Kathy (Debbie Reynolds) is dubbing the dialogue for Lina (Jean Hagen), it's actually Jean Hagen who is dubbing the voice of Debbie Reynolds!

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7 minutes ago, calvinnme said:

Pretty much. That and the composite scenes of all of the musical numbers they were supposedly shooting weeks after The Jazz Singer.  They couldn't do any of that sort of thing until Busby Berkeley in 1932-1933. But it makes for a dynamite montage. I think Jean Hagen - who had a perfectly fine speaking voice - was trying to talk like Judy Holliday and behave like Norma Talmadge.

I'm on board with your #2 option, too.  Great stuff!

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11 minutes ago, sagebrush said:

It's funny to think that in the scene where Kathy (Debbie Reynolds) is dubbing the dialogue for Lina (Jean Hagen), it's actually Jean Hagen who is dubbing the voice of Debbie Reynolds!

My only complaint about Singin' in the Rain, which otherwise is the perfect musical (for me, anyway), is that Debbie Reynolds has three different singing voices! Gene Kelly and Stanley Donen, make up your mind! 

Debbie is dubbed for the "You Are My Lucky Star" song.  Then she sings with her own voice for "Good Morning"  song, then Jean Hagen dubs Debbie for the "Would You?" song.  Debbie's three voices sound completely different from one another.  I think Kathy Selden is wasting her time jumping out of cakes and appearing as a chorus girl in films, she should be a singer, she has fantastic range! 

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2 hours ago, calvinnme said:

2. I love the artful awkwardness of the very early talkies. I wish they would play more from 1929 and 1930.

3. Could TCM please play ALL of the Private Screening episodes in order sometime? Just because RO is dead is no reason to erase his image from the channel. His birthday this coming May would be a good day for that. Also put them ALL together in one DVD set in the Warner Archive so we can buy them all in one place.

Yes & yes.

And while they're at it show the John Leguizamo episode that I've yet to see from the Under The Influence series.

2 hours ago, calvinnme said:

6. I don't like Gigi at all. Strip away the art design and the musical numbers and all you really have are a bunch of older authority figures - including relatives - and one very selfish would be lover  pushing a young girl into a life

The Night They Invented Champagne routine is worth the price of admission for me - no way would I agree to strip that away...

 

48 minutes ago, speedracer5 said:

I CAN'T MAKE LOVE TO A BUSH!

No lurv for Mr President #41 & #43, huh?

They both now look like this -> react_sad.png

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7 minutes ago, limey said:

Yes & yes.

And while they're at it show the John Leguizamo episode that I've yet to see from the Under The Influence series.

The Night They Invented Champagne routine is worth the price of admission for me - no way would I agree to strip that away...

 

No lurv for Mr President #41 & #43, huh?

They both now look like this -> react_sad.png

I wasn't saying that they should strip away the music or the art design. I was saying that the story underneath Gigi is that of trying to exploit a young girl who, fortunately, is wise enough to see the life towards which she is being pushed - prostitution - is a dead end one.

As for having no love for 41 or 43 - I strongly advise against it, even in the days when 41 was capable. Both have wives that carefully guard their territory. They are not nearly as open minded as the wife - if that's what you want to call her - of 42.

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1 minute ago, calvinnme said:

I wasn't saying that they should strip away the music or the art design. I was saying that the story underneath Gigi is that of trying to exploit a young girl who, fortunately, is wise enough to see where the life towards which she is being pushed - prostitution - is a dead end one.

I think that's the point that film's ending tries to portray in part, even if the story (especially in musical form) glosses over the realities of courtesan life until she starts to make that realization for herself. But the musical numbers, set design & romantic gloss (she eventually gets the guy on her terms) are a massive part of the film's charm - it's not really intended as an observation on society.

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12 minutes ago, limey said:

I think that's the point that film's ending tries to portray in part, even if the story (especially in musical form) glosses over the realities of courtesan life until she starts to make that realization for herself. But the musical numbers, set design & romantic gloss (she eventually gets the guy on her terms) are a massive part of the film's charm - it's not really intended as an observation on society.

I'm glad I had at least one unpopular opinion that ignited conversation! Nobody has ever cared for my opinion of Gigi, which I have had since I first saw it at age ten.

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2 hours ago, speedracer5 said:

My only complaint about Singin' in the Rain, which otherwise is the perfect musical (for me, anyway), is that Debbie Reynolds has three different singing voices! Gene Kelly and Stanley Donen, make up your mind! 

Debbie is dubbed for the "You Are My Lucky Star" song.  Then she sings with her own voice for "Good Morning"  song, then Jean Hagen dubs Debbie for the "Would You?" song.  Debbie's three voices sound completely different from one another.  I think Kathy Selden is wasting her time jumping out of cakes and appearing as a chorus girl in films, she should be a singer, she has fantastic range! 

Debbie Reynolds sings for herself

From video description [this movie sounds like it was a steaming hot mess to make, but fun]:

Irony of ironies - in a film that is all about dubbing actors, Debbie Reynolds herself was dubbed by Betty Noyes in this scene where she sings for Jean Hagen. I've restored Debbie's original vocal track. Here's a trivia question: who dubbed Debbie Reynolds' voice when she was seen dubbing Jean Hagen's onscreen speaking voice in the film? . . . . . . . From Hugh Fordin's "The World of Entertainment!": In several scenes Debbie Reynolds is lip-synching and rerecording Jean Hagen's speaking voice. "We used Jean Hagen dubbing Debbie dubbing Jean," director Stanley Donen explains. "Jean's voice is quite remarkable, and it was supposed to be cultured speech - and Debbie had that terrible western noise."

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1 hour ago, MovieCollectorOH said:

Irony of ironies - in a film that is all about dubbing actors, Debbie Reynolds herself was dubbed by Betty Noyes in this scene where she sings for Jean Hagen. I've restored Debbie's original vocal track. Here's a trivia question: who dubbed Debbie Reynolds' voice when she was seen dubbing Jean Hagen's onscreen speaking voice in the film? ....From Hugh Fordin's "The World of Entertainment!": In several scenes Debbie Reynolds is lip-synching and rerecording Jean Hagen's speaking voice. "We used Jean Hagen dubbing Debbie dubbing Jean," director Stanley Donen explains. "Jean's voice is quite remarkable, and it was supposed to be cultured speech - and Debbie had that terrible western noise."

Yeah, and I have to say Debbie was a little flat on some notes there too.

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5 hours ago, speedracer5 said:

I like Cesar Romero's Joker over both Jack Nicholson and Heath Ledger's.  Lol.

 

I am not a fan of Mickey Rooney at all, there's just something about his on screen personality which is off putting. Though he is fine in a handful of films, like National Velvet.  But I can tolerate him with Judy Garland.  Maybe Judy mellows him out.  I don't know.  But I like Judy and Mickey's films together, but am not a fan of Mickey on his own.  I have never seen any of the Andy Hardy films.  I would probably check them out just to see early film appearances by Judy, Lana Turner, Esther Williams and (ugh) Kathryn Grayson (as long as she doesn't sing!)

 

I was never fond of the 60's Batman TV show....Adam West was too wooden, and the show itself was just too ridiculous for my taste. Cesar Romero's Joker to me was WAY too silly, Heath Ledger's a little bit too much on the dark side.

The reason that Jack's Joker is my favorite is that I feel he found the right balance between being funny and still being sinister enough so as not to ruin the character.

I feel the opposite about Mickey....I actually felt he did some of his best work when he and Judy were not starring in a flick together (I feel the same way about her). I just did not feel the chemistry between them but hey that's just me.

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The BATMAN TV show was intended to be as ridiculous as it was.  And had Adam West NOT have been as "wooden" the show probably wouldn't have been as popular.  It was a spoof on both the genre and the characters and succeeded on that level IMHO.  

As for Mickey(and Judy), sure, it's easy to note that their best work was before AND after the Andy Hardy movies.  But those flicks are pleasant "pass the time" movies that never were intended to be as "art" or great film making.  But they did do well at the box office, and that's what they were intended to do.

Personally, I felt that Mickey did his best work after he stopped being cast as teenagers, which was well into his 20's.

Sepiatone 

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1 hour ago, Sepiatone said:

The BATMAN TV show was intended to be as ridiculous as it was.  And had Adam West NOT have been as "wooden" the show probably wouldn't have been as popular.  It was a spoof on both the genre and the characters and succeeded on that level IMHO.  

As for Mickey(and Judy), sure, it's easy to note that their best work was before AND after the Andy Hardy movies.  But those flicks are pleasant "pass the time" movies that never were intended to be as "art" or great film making.  But they did do well at the box office, and that's what they were intended to do.

Personally, I felt that Mickey did his best work after he stopped being cast as teenagers, which was well into his 20's.

Sepiatone 

You mean the producers told West to do a bad acting job and because he was such a good actor,  he did?   :lol:

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1 hour ago, Sepiatone said:

The BATMAN TV show was intended to be as ridiculous as it was.  And had Adam West NOT have been as "wooden" the show probably wouldn't have been as popular.  It was a spoof on both the genre and the characters and succeeded on that level IMHO.  

As for Mickey(and Judy), sure, it's easy to note that their best work was before AND after the Andy Hardy movies.  But those flicks are pleasant "pass the time" movies that never were intended to be as "art" or great film making.  But they did do well at the box office, and that's what they were intended to do.

Personally, I felt that Mickey did his best work after he stopped being cast as teenagers, which was well into his 20's.

Sepiatone 

The show only lasted a couple of seasons, so it seems to me its popularity was a fleeing thing. I'll cut the show some slack because I understand it was really intended for the kiddies rather than for adults anyway so I'll leave it at that.

I know that the Andy Hardy movies were never intended to be Oscar winning material....but they just didn't appeal to me.

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1 hour ago, GordonCole said:

Okay, my unpopular opinion is that I don't care for Paul Newman as an actor.

His salad dressings are okay though.

I've got to agree with you here. I've got nothing particularly against Paul Newman, but I feel  he is highly overrated as an actor.

But I disagree with you on the salad dressings. I haven't had much luck with them,  but I'm a big fan of the pizza. LOL

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Gotta say Newman was GREAT in 1982's The Verdict, though.

AND, his Fig Newman cookies are pretty good TOO!

(...so THERE!!!) :P

LOL

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Why don't GordonCole and Princess care for Paul Newman as an actor?  He wasn't great in everything but he was excellent in a lot of movies.  I agree with Dargo that Paul was GREAT in THE VERDICT and should have won an Oscar.  

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