Barton_Keyes

Noir Alley

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Speaking of location shooting, anyone seen Chicago Calling, with Dan Duryea? Some very expressive 1951 shots were taken in the Bunker Hill sections of L.A.. It really adds authenticity to a rather bleak story.

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2 hours ago, Dargo said:

(...and in fact before Interstate 10 was built in the late-1950s and now days the major route from L.A. to Palm Springs, the road depicted in the film which the hijacked moving van is shown being driven upon would have looked very much as the old two-lane road which was depicted, and thus which led me to believe that that portion of the film had indeed been filmed on location and not in RKO studio's back lot, although I suppose I could be wrong about this)

No I agree with you here Dargo, those van shots were probably on location. What I'm talking about was the final third of the film that spent a lot of time in that cabin, with no establishing shot of the cabin in a landscape which should have been in the Mojave I'm assuming. 

That cabin looks like it was backlot, I never saw any landscape other than bushes, know what I mean, no hills or mountains no sense of place. Remember when they were commenting of the same plane circling around. It would have been nice to see an aerial shot of the cabin from the plane's POV. 

PS. Dargo about 12 miles east of here there was a section of State Rt. 28 that was rerouted through a ridge, when they did that, they abandoned the old curve around the base of the ridge. It's still there and what is cool about it is that that section of highway still has the old single white line down the center. see below

rkpfJsJ.jpg

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2 hours ago, cigarjoe said:

No I agree with you here Dargo, those van shots were probably on location. What I'm talking about was the final third of the film that spent a lot of time in that cabin, with no establishing shot of the cabin in a landscape which should have been in the Mojave I'm assuming. 

That cabin looks like it was backlot, I never saw any landscape other than bushes, know what I mean, no hills or mountains no sense of place. Remember when they were commenting of the same plane circling around. It would have been nice to see an aerial shot of the cabin from the plane's POV. 

PS. Dargo about 12 miles east of here there was a section of State Rt. 28 that was rerouted through a ridge, when they did that, they abandoned the old curve around the base of the ridge. It's still there and what is cool about it is that that section of highway still has the old single white line down the center. see below

 

While your guess of the Mojave desert would be close here CJ, the location where McGraw earlier in the film says he's taking his hostages, "an old airfield in Banning" and where he had made plans to rendezvous with his old accomplice named Tony, and wherein later the final action took place in that cabin, isn't part of the Mojave Desert.

The Mojave Desert is actually further north from Banning CA, and where the town of Barstow--and where McGraw at gunpoint has Michael O'Shea over the radio misdirect Robert Shayne's LEO pursuit--is located.

Banning is actually located in the San Gorgonio Pass, about 30 miles west of Palm Springs and bit higher in elevation than Palm Springs, and with Palm Springs itself being located within the Coachella Valley and which is actually part of the Sonoran Desert.

(...btw, don't worry...there will be no Geography test on all this later, and so retention of this info is not mandatory) ;)

LOL

 

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My first road trip to California I came in through Death Valley Junction, then over to Lone Pine, then down to Mojave, then down to LA from the North, anyway ended up on Hollywood Freeway. Stayed in a place on Alvarado. Heading out back to Vegas went through Victorville to Barstow and Baker, so kinda Northwest on the interstate.

 

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1 hour ago, cigarjoe said:

My first road trip to California I came in through Death Valley Junction, then over to Lone Pine, then down to Mojave, then down to LA from the North, anyway ended up on Hollywood Freeway. Stayed in a place on Alvarado. Heading out back to Vegas went through Victorville to Barstow and Baker, so kinda Northwest on the interstate.

 

"Lone Pine" ya say, eh?!

So, as you entered that little burg, I'll bet your thoughts turned to a certain Bogart flick that made him a star, didn't ya?!

(...OR maybe another film where the director, a man famously noted for his fracturing of the English language, once told his crew to "Bring on the empty horses"?!) ;) 

 

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7 hours ago, Dargo said:

"Lone Pine" ya say, eh?!

So, as you entered that little burg, I'll bet your thoughts turned to a certain Bogart flick that made him a star, didn't ya?!

(...OR maybe another film where the director, a man famously noted for his fracturing of the English language, once told his crew to "Bring on the empty horses"?!) ;) 

 

You mean The Petrified Forest ? There is another film that once they hit that roadside pit stop looks like it was all backlot.

Actually Dargo, I like Westerns too, so I was thinking of all the Westerns shot in the Alabama Hills and around Death Valley.

Ok just curious about some geographical locals you always hear or read about in southern California. Where is Cahuenga Pass? Is it that slot between Simi Valley and L.A. it's more like a bump, lol. Or is it between Palmdale and Santa Clarita? That's one.

Another question is about the Mojave, and that was that I've read that the Joshua Trees are the chief indicator species for the Mojave Desert, (it runs from the Western edge of Arizona, through Southern Nevada and interior Southern California) which is kinda of why I assumed (thinking of Joshua Tree National Park, there Dargo) it stretched down that far to the East of Los Angeles, while the Sonoran Desert was below it and for a large part East of San Diego, Southern Arizona, and mostly in Mexico. 

So what pass does I-10 go over when you leave the LA basin going East is that the San Gorgonio?, and what is the pass when you head up through Victorville, now that was more of what I think of when I'm thinking pass, (I think they shot High Noon around Victorville, BTW).

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Back to Noir Alley, as of last night The Sniper still hasn't shown up On Demand on Sling. 

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4 hours ago, cigarjoe said:

You mean The Petrified Forest ? There is another film that once they hit that roadside pit stop looks like it was all backlot.

Actually Dargo, I like Westerns too, so I was thinking of all the Westerns shot in the Alabama Hills and around Death Valley.

Ok just curious about some geographical locals you always hear or read about in southern California. Where is Cahuenga Pass? Is it that slot between Simi Valley and L.A. it's more like a bump, lol. Or is it between Palmdale and Santa Clarita? That's one.

Another question is about the Mojave, and that was that I've read that the Joshua Trees are the chief indicator species for the Mojave Desert, (it runs from the Western edge of Arizona, through Southern Nevada and interior Southern California) which is kinda of why I assumed (thinking of Joshua Tree National Park, there Dargo) it stretched down that far to the East of Los Angeles, while the Sonoran Desert was below it and for a large part East of San Diego, Southern Arizona, and mostly in Mexico. 

So what pass does I-10 go over when you leave the LA basin going East is that the San Gorgonio?, and what is the pass when you head up through Victorville, now that was more of what I think of when I'm thinking pass, (I think they shot High Noon around Victorville, BTW).

Hi CJ.

No, actually I was thinking of High Sierra (and The Charge of the Light Brigade) when I earlier made reference to Lone Pine and where some of the filming was done for each of those films.

Remember, while Bogart made his presence known in The Petrified Forest, his true breakout role and the one that made him a star was his lead performance in High Sierra.

Btw, the Cahuenga Pass would be the pass that the Hollywood Freeway runs through, and which connects the Los Angeles basin with the San Fernando Valley. And, the pass over the mountains from San Berdardino northward and which would lead one to Barstow would be the Cajon Pass.

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5 hours ago, cigarjoe said:

Back to Noir Alley, as of last night The Sniper still hasn't shown up On Demand on Sling. 

I watched it during the actual broadcast, and during Eddie's intro (and esp. the outro) he demeaned the movie in a manner I've never heard him before about a "noir" pick.
Apparently the movie was just too shockingly "real" for even him. Or perhaps, in light of all the mass shootings these recent years (weeks, and days), he just felt it "appropriate" to verbally display such disdain. 
Not sure why this "noir" should be an exception to such ON-DEMAND repeat viewing (since they already had made the decision to re-air it in the first place), but my gut tells me that it may have been more on the line of "political correctness" since we appear to have a very "disturbed" element within "our" population who appear to be so alarmingly "impressionable" and easily triggered to act upon what they see and hear...
Perhaps someone at TCM thought such a realistic depiction of a psychopathic woman hating serial killer on a shooting rampage would be just too incorrigible for a certain segment of the broad TCM audience.
Who knows.
I know TCM hasn't had any apparent problem airing the movie in the past as I DVR'd it at least twice before (June 2009, and 9/4/2014), though not this last time. But as Dylan said, "The times, they are a chang'in."

If you have never seen it before it before, and feel a compulsive "need" to do so, I see that it is available to watch from various on-line sources and as part of an overpriced "noir" set from Amazon
https://www.amazon.com/Columbia-Pictures-Classics-Against-Contract/dp/B0024FAG80/ref=sr_1_1?s=movies-tv&ie=UTF8&qid=1542042934&sr=1-1&keywords=the+sniper+1952

I didn't check but TCM may even have it available from their DVD website?

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23 minutes ago, Stephan55 said:

I watched it during the actual broadcast, and during Eddie's intro (and esp. the outro) he demeaned the movie in a manner I've never heard him before about a "noir" pick.
Apparently the movie was just too shockingly "real" for even him. Or perhaps, in light of all the mass shootings these recent years (weeks, and days), he just felt it "appropriate" to verbally display such disdain. 
Not sure why this "noir" should be an exception to such ON-DEMAND repeat viewing (since they already had made the decision to re-air it in the first place), but my gut tells me that it may have been more on the line of "political correctness" since we appear to have a very "disturbed" element within "our" population who appear to be so alarmingly "impressionable" and easily triggered to act upon what they see and hear...
Perhaps someone at TCM thought such a realistic depiction of a psychopathic woman hating serial killer on a shooting rampage would be just too incorrigible for a certain segment of the broad TCM audience.
Who knows.
I know TCM hasn't had any apparent problem airing the movie in the past as I DVR'd it at least twice before (June 2009, and 9/4/2014), though not this last time. But as Dylan said, "The times, they are a chang'in."

If you have never seen it before it before, and feel a compulsive "need" to do so, I see that it is available to watch from various on-line sources and as part of an overpriced "noir" set from Amazon
https://www.amazon.com/Columbia-Pictures-Classics-Against-Contract/dp/B0024FAG80/ref=sr_1_1?s=movies-tv&ie=UTF8&qid=1542042934&sr=1-1&keywords=the+sniper+1952

I didn't check but TCM may even have it available from their DVD website?

I have the Sniper in that set. I was more interested in Eddie's comments, they are always interesting.

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Poor dumb old Joe the van driver from The Threat. He had a gun and the crooks were asleep,

but Quick Draw McGraw managed to use Joe's innocence to talk him down and not surprisingly

then kill him. The only way to get rid of guys like McGraw was to take out that gat and shoot

him and his two buddies ASAP. But I can see why the kid didn't take that approach. Big mistake.

I didn't find The Threat much more cruel than many noirs. The short running time helped, as I

think things would have become boring in the hostage part of the movie if things had gone on

much longer. Cruel would have been watching his former girlfriend pump more than one bullet

into McGraw, but they stopped at one. Too bad. :)

 

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1 hour ago, Vautrin said:

Poor dumb old Joe the van driver from The Threat. He had a gun and the crooks were asleep,

but Quick Draw McGraw managed to use Joe's innocence to talk him down and not surprisingly

then kill him. The only way to get rid of guys like McGraw was to take out that gat and shoot

him and his two buddies ASAP. But I can see why the kid didn't take that approach. Big mistake.

I didn't find The Threat much more cruel than many noirs. The short running time helped, as I

think things would have become boring in the hostage part of the movie if things had gone on

much longer. Cruel would have been watching his former girlfriend pump more than one bullet into McGraw, but they stopped at one. Too bad. :)

 

Actually Vautrin, I'm pretty sure Clark Gable's old squeeze Virginia Grey DID pump more than just one bullet into McGraw, didn't she?

Didn't she shoot him once as he began to plead with her, and then again as he stumbled back and fell down? Or am I just imagining that?

(...and re Don McGuire's Joe character...yep, you're right on this count...the earlier scene where at one point McGraw has his back to him, I noticed myself yelling at the TV for him to pull out his gun and shoot the SOB in the back of the head when he had his chance...just goes to show ya that Durocher was right after all..."Nice guys DO finish last", huh!) ;) 

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5 hours ago, Dargo said:

Actually Vautrin, I'm pretty sure Clark Gable's old squeeze Virginia Grey DID pump more than just one bullet into McGraw, didn't she?

Didn't she shoot him once as he began to plead with her, and then again as he stumbled back and fell down? Or am I just imagining that?

(...and re Don McGuire's Joe character...yep, you're right on this count...the earlier scene where at one point McGraw has his back to him, I noticed myself yelling at the TV for him to pull out his gun and shoot the SOB in the back of the head when he had his chance...just goes to show ya that Durocher was right after all..."Nice guys DO finish last", huh!) ;) 

Yes. I think she shot him the first time and that put him on the floor. Then we see McGraw hit by

her second shot when he is down. Then they cut away to her gun when she fires another couple of

shots. It would have been much more graphic to see those bullets hit McGraw's body. I think Joe

was a bit green and didn't realize how bad the gang was, or else he would have shot them when

he had the chance. Finishing last in a very permanent way. No wait till next year.

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5 minutes ago, Vautrin said:

Yes. I think she shot him the first time and that put him on the floor. Then we see McGraw hit by

her second shot when he is down. Then they cut away to her gun when she fires another couple of

shots. It would have been much more graphic to see those bullets hit McGraw's body. I think Joe

was a bit green and didn't realize how bad the gang was, or else he would have shot them when

he had the chance. Finishing last in a very permanent way. No wait till next year.

Dude, don't forget here that this flick was made in 1949, and YEARS before that Warren Beatty/Fay Dunaway flick in particular would open the floodgates to visuals of graphic bloodshed being shown on the silver screen!

(...nope, not in 1949, anyway)

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1 hour ago, Dargo said:

Dude, don't forget here that this flick was made in 1949, and YEARS before that Warren Beatty/Fay Dunaway flick in particular would open the floodgates to visuals of graphic bloodshed being shown on the silver screen!

(...nope, not in 1949, anyway)

Yeah things were different in 1949. I was surprised they showed the bullet hitting McGraw

when he was already on the ground and you can see the impact it makes on his body, so

I'm not surprised they didn't show the next few bullets in the same way. In its own way 

this would have been just as graphic as Bonnnie and Clyde, as you would have seen McGraw

getting it one shot at a time unlike the flurry of bullets that kill Bonnie and Clyde.

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7 minutes ago, Vautrin said:

Yeah things were different in 1949. I was surprised they showed the bullet hitting McGraw

when he was already on the ground and you can see the impact it makes on his body, so

I'm not surprised they didn't show the next few bullets in the same way. In its own way 

this would have been just as graphic as Bonnnie and Clyde, as you would have seen McGraw

getting it one shot at a time unlike the flurry of bullets that kill Bonnie and Clyde.

Yeah, I do remember seeing that one bullet hole in McGraw's shirt, and as I recall on the left side half way down his back, while he was crumpled on the floor. But, with no blood, of course.

(...and which might now beg the following question: Did they even have gunshot prop squibs back in '49?)

 

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5 hours ago, Vautrin said:

Yeah things were different in 1949. I was surprised they showed the bullet hitting McGraw

when he was already on the ground and you can see the impact it makes on his body, so

I'm not surprised they didn't show the next few bullets in the same way. In its own way 

this would have been just as graphic as Bonnnie and Clyde, as you would have seen McGraw

getting it one shot at a time unlike the flurry of bullets that kill Bonnie and Clyde.

In Hell's Half Acre (1953) They depicted a bullet to the head. I believe it's the actor Robert M. Luck but I;m not sure.

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A great Noir, BTW.

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18 hours ago, Vautrin said:

Poor dumb old Joe the van driver from The Threat. He had a gun and the crooks were asleep,

but Quick Draw McGraw managed to use Joe's innocence to talk him down and not surprisingly

then kill him. The only way to get rid of guys like McGraw was to take out that gat and shoot

him and his two buddies ASAP. But I can see why the kid didn't take that approach. Big mistake.

I didn't find The Threat much more cruel than many noirs. The short running time helped, as I

think things would have become boring in the hostage part of the movie if things had gone on

much longer. Cruel would have been watching his former girlfriend pump more than one bullet

into McGraw, but they stopped at one. Too bad. :)

 

To me, Joe should have shot all three of them in the back while they were watching the plane fly over.  The police would not have questioned it at all - self-defense.  Of course, he had to "wimp-out" to make it more suspenseful. 

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this may sound like a lame excuse, but my allergies were so HORRIBLE on Sunday that I missed the NOIR ALLEY showing thinking it would show up on TCM ON DEMAND (sadly, it has not.)

I am very interested though in the conversation re: REALISTIC gun violence (or a lack thereof) in Classic HOLLYWOOD FILMS of the GOLDEN ERA (pre BONNIE AND CLYDE.)

I mentioned this in my review of HELL BELOW (1933)- a pre-code war film, but one of the most jarring things about it was its realistic depiction of bullet wounds and blood.

i think a great disservice was ironically done to the public (with the best of intentions) by the innumerable blood-free scenes of people getting shot which lacked smoke and spatter and spray and guts- it romanticizes gun violence, almost sexualizes it even- and makes shooting someone witha gun seem a very nice, neat, no-mess affair.

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28 minutes ago, LornaHansonForbes said:

this may sound like a lame excuse, but my allergies were so HORRIBLE on Sunday that I missed the NOIR ALLEY showing thinking it would show up on TCM ON DEMAND (sadly, it has not.)

I am very interested though in the conversation re: REALISTIC gun violence (or a lack thereof) in Classic HOLLYWOOD FILMS of the GOLDEN ERA (pre BONNIE AND CLYDE.)

I mentioned this in my review of HELL BELOW (1933)- a pre-code war film, but one of the most jarring things about it was its realistic depiction of bullet wounds and blood.

i think a great disservice was ironically done to the public (with the best of intentions) by the innumerable blood-free scenes of people getting shot which lacked smoke and spatter and spray and guts- it romanticizes gun violence, almost sexualizes it even- and makes shooting someone witha gun seem a very nice, neat, no-mess affair.

You're right, conversely, not showing the kinky, grunting, sweaty, moaning and groning, bumping and grinding of real sex sort of romanticizes it, to.... 😎

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3 hours ago, TheCid said:

To me, Joe should have shot all three of them in the back while they were watching the plane fly over.  The police would not have questioned it at all - self-defense.  Of course, he had to "wimp-out" to make it more suspenseful. 

The movie would've been a lot shorter too! The movie was pretty violent without being too explicit. I kept wondering what they were doing with those pliers........UGH.

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16 hours ago, Dargo said:

Yeah, I do remember seeing that one bullet hole in McGraw's shirt, and as I recall on the left side half way down his back, while he was crumpled on the floor. But, with no blood, of course.

(...and which might now beg the following question: Did they even have gunshot prop squibs back in '49?)

 

Maybe they had to settle for the chocolate sauce aftermath. 

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10 hours ago, cigarjoe said:

In Hell's Half Acre (1953) They depicted a bullet to the head. I believe it's the actor Robert M. Luck but I;m not sure.

 

Don't think I've seen that one. Fairly graphic for the time, though nothing compared

to what they would do with it today.

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5 hours ago, TheCid said:

To me, Joe should have shot all three of them in the back while they were watching the plane fly over.  The police would not have questioned it at all - self-defense.  Of course, he had to "wimp-out" to make it more suspenseful. 

Yeah, he should have taken a chance to shoot them as soon as he could. Of course that would

have put a premature end to the movie, but it surely would have been satisfying, just as satisfying

as the girlfriend pumping McGraw full of lead at the end. 

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4 hours ago, LornaHansonForbes said:

this may sound like a lame excuse, but my allergies were so HORRIBLE on Sunday that I missed the NOIR ALLEY showing thinking it would show up on TCM ON DEMAND (sadly, it has not.)

I am very interested though in the conversation re: REALISTIC gun violence (or a lack thereof) in Classic HOLLYWOOD FILMS of the GOLDEN ERA (pre BONNIE AND CLYDE.)

I mentioned this in my review of HELL BELOW (1933)- a pre-code war film, but one of the most jarring things about it was its realistic depiction of bullet wounds and blood.

i think a great disservice was ironically done to the public (with the best of intentions) by the innumerable blood-free scenes of people getting shot which lacked smoke and spatter and spray and guts- it romanticizes gun violence, almost sexualizes it even- and makes shooting someone witha gun seem a very nice, neat, no-mess affair.

You can really say about Western movies and TV shows in the past.All the people who got shot several times and no blood, no holes, no nothing.

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