Barton_Keyes

Noir Alley

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30 minutes ago, jamesjazzguitar said:

It is HOW she died;   In a rage, he (Maxim) had shot her through the heart, then disposed of her body by placing it in her boat and sinking it at sea.

Due to the Production code Maxim couldn't be a murderer so the death was changed to suicide and thus the happy ending.

 

SPOILERS FOR THOSE WHO HAVEN'T SEEN (OR READ) "REBECCA":

Ok, you're right, but it's actually more complicated than that. Yes, in the book, technically, Maxim did kill Rebecca.

But Rebecca wanted Maxim to kill her. She goaded him into it, on purpose taunting him and infuriating him until he lost it and shot her (I think...or did he just hit her and she fell and hit her head....can't remember...)

Rebecca had found out that she had cancer. This was a woman who would have found prolonged illness intolerable, she would much rather just die, quickly, before the cancer had a chance to make her ill - and her diagnosis was that it was incurable. But Maxim did not know this, he just knew she'd been to see a doctor. She made him believe she was pregnant, and taunted him that the child was not his, and that he'd have to tolerate raising a child who was not his, but pretending he thought it was to avoid scandal.  She deliberately provoked him into killing her ( again, I thought he struck her and she fell and died when she hit her head, but maybe he shot her...)

Anyway, the point is, the diabolical Rebecca decided she wanted to die (before the cancer took hold of her), and that the way to do it was to taunt Maxim into killing her. It was very calculated on her part, and, in the sense that she wanted and planned for Maxim to kill her, it was in a way a suicide.

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sorry to have derailed, but to clarify my remarks on HITCHCOCK vs. SELZNICK and the making of REBECCA...

there is an excellent PBS MASTERS documentary that focuses on the relationship between the two men while making REBECCA and then follows the lives of careers of both as they continued to work in Hollywood, it is pretty interesting and goes into GREAT detail about Selznick's OBSESSION to make the film another GONE WITH THE WIND and his CONSTANT MEMOS which instructed Hitchcock on how to make the movie

my feelings in re: HITCHCOCK NOT BEING ALLOWED TO MAKE THE FILM HE WANTED TO MAKE more concern the ending and shocking lack of climax for the film than in dealing with the facts behind Rebecca's death.

it is NUTS to me that at the end of this 2 hour plus film that builds tension on tension and then when all Hell breaks loose we only hear about it second hand.

it's like omitting the whole Burning of Atlanta scene from GWTW and just having a quick two minute breakdown where Scarlett knocks on the door to Tara  and then tells Mammy "wow, they burned Atlanta. We escaped. You should've seen it, it was really something! Totally epic, trust me."

so while it is speculation on my part, i'd just HAVE to say that Hitchcock WANTED VERY MUCH to shoot the burning of Manderly scene differently and HAD to have been disappointed by the whimper on which REBECCA ENDS, so much so that several of his later films have no-punches pulled ALL OUT grandiose finales (ie STRANGERS ON A TRAIN, FOREIGN CORRESPONDENT, NxNW, and even to a degree SPELLBOUND.)

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15 hours ago, jamesjazzguitar said:

It is HOW she died;   In a rage, he (Maxim) had shot her through the heart, then disposed of her body by placing it in her boat and sinking it at sea.

Due to the Production code Maxim couldn't be a murderer so the death was changed to suicide and thus the happy ending.

 

I KNOW that. That's not what I was talking about. Of course it had to be changed somwhat to appease the code. That wasnt Hitchock putting his imprint on the ending. It was something they were forced to do..

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I wish Eddie Muller didn’t like the sound of his own voice so much. His introductions to each movie is 5-10 minutes that could be done in less than 3, as all the other hosts usually take to give some background and sometimes a little extra tidbit of trivia. 

Save it for the bathroom mirror Eddie and start the movie!

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2 hours ago, Tobia said:

I wish Eddie Muller didn’t like the sound of his own voice so much. His introductions to each movie is 5-10 minutes that could be done in less than 3, as all the other hosts usually take to give some background and sometimes a little extra tidbit of trivia. 

Save it for the bathroom mirror Eddie and start the movie!

Sorry Tobia, but I'm gonna disagree with ya here.

One of the things I've always wished ALL the TCM hosts did WAS to lengthen their intros and out-tros, as I've always felt there was much MUCH more that could've been said about even the most over-shown films that this channel broadcasts! 

And hell for THAT matter and regarding Eddie, AT LEAST Eddie doesn't have a nasally voice like Ben does.

(...and even THEN I wouldn't mind hearing BEN go on a little more about these movies in his intros than the limited amount of time they've always allotted him and all the other hosts, past and present)

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Say, who's this red-haired babe host I haven't noticed before? I'm revising my opinion of Ben M. As zany as his hair-doo is, he looks properly 'weathered'. As does Eddie Mueller, 'czar of noir'. Both seem apt in their roles as classic movie hosts. But the younger hosts both look out of place. Just my impression.

Its like a young guitarist saying, "i'm a blues man".

 

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I apologize for the above post. I really shouldn’t post using my phone because it creates all kinds of problems. It has an auto save function that saves something you were going to write no matter what and you can’t delete it. 

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I also apologize for further derailment of the post and further spoilerage, but I thought of two more really good analogies for the ending to REBECCA:

its like as if they ended BRIDGE ON THE RIVER KWAI By entirely omitting the climactic action scene and just having Jack Hawkins show back up at the base and  say, “well that didn’t go well.”

or

Omitting the finale of THE AFRICAN QUEEN by having Kate and Bogie Talking about their dumb luck as they paddle on the debris of the German ship to shore.

ok. I stop now.

(point is: Show us, don’t tell us. They’re called *motion* pictures for a reason.)

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13 minutes ago, LornaHansonForbes said:

I apologize for the above post. I really shouldn’t post using my phone because it creates all kinds of problems. It has an auto save function that saves something you were going to write no matter what and you can’t delete it. 

It's not just on a phone that this happens. I have about seven or eight posts which pop up every time I click on a topic I started to add my thoughts to but changed my mind for whatever reason.

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29 minutes ago, sagebrush said:

It's not just on a phone that this happens. I have about seven or eight posts which pop up every time I click on a topic I started to add my thoughts to but changed my mind for whatever reason.

there is a clear the editor button that takes care of that.

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7 minutes ago, cigarjoe said:

there is a clear the editor button that takes care of that.

I’ll have to look for it, one problem is that -on my phone- the message board becomes so tiny. Posting w/ phone actually is something kind of akin to building a ship in a bottle.

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I like Eddie's commentaries and often watch Noir Alley just to hear them.  I consider it part of the educational process about Noir and specific Noir movies. 

Not sure I would want more from Ben or the other hosts though.

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5 hours ago, LornaHansonForbes said:
On 11/14/2018 at 8:25 AM, speedracer5 said:

 

Hmm. Sad face from CigarJoe. 

Was it something I said? 😉

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14 minutes ago, speedracer5 said:

Hmm. Sad face from CigarJoe. 

Was it something I said? 😉

Maybe he's sad that your quote didn't come through ( due to technical issues on Lorna's phone, I think), because your comments here are always interesting and worth reading, and cigarjoe was just disappointed that he missed what you said.

Hey, Lorna, get a laptop !  (sorry, not bossing you around...lots of people here post and read on their phones. But I know sometimes that can create technical problems....)

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The Woman in the Window is a fun noir. I love Edward G. and Dan Duryea. And, come to think of it, Joan Bennett. Of course this great cast is reprised in Scarlet Street the following year.

Although, of the two, I prefer Scarlet Street, The Woman in the Window is very enjoyable. I love it when Eddie hangs out in his "club". Those old-fashioned men's clubs, sexist though they were, also look kind of nice. Elegant and at the same time, somehow cozy surroundings, lots of comfy leather chairs and books, people bringing you fine brandy ( the drink of choice, I suspect, at these clubs), quiet atmosphere to read or just think (or doze), and the chance of meeting friends and colleagues with whom you can have interesting conversations, about - oh, whatever themes the movie wants to explore. 

Edward G. was so good; his character in this film is quite a different one from poor old Chris' in Scarlet Street. Yet he's entirely believable in both. Just shows his range.

But I'll save the rest of my observations about The Woman in the Window for after its Noir Alley airing(s).

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35 minutes ago, misswonderly3 said:

Maybe he's sad that your quote didn't come through ( due to technical issues on Lorna's phone, I think), because your comments here are always interesting and worth reading, and cigarjoe was just disappointed that he missed what you said.

Hey, Lorna, get a laptop !  (sorry, not bossing you around...lots of people here post and read on their phones. But I know sometimes that can create technical problems....)

Boy do I hate texting on a phone. All those itty-bitty little keys on my Samsung S8 are a royal pain, to say nothin' about having to switch screens just to use some of the punctuation marks.

Nope, when it comes to texting, gimme a laptop where these fingers of mine feel right at home.

(...thaaaat's right, this "old guy" here is STILL of the mind that "phones" are made so that my terrific, all modesty aside, VOICE can be heard by others whenever I wish to transmit my thoughts to 'em, and then subsequently when an instantaneous conversation can ensue without the need of waiting for that other person to reply in text form)

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27 minutes ago, Dargo said:

Boy do I hate texting on a phone. All those itty-bitty little keys on my Samsung S8 are a royal pain, to say nothin' about having to switch screens just to use some of the punctuation marks.

Nope, when it comes to texting, gimme a laptop where these fingers of mine feel right at home.

(...thaaaat's right, this "old guy" here is STILL of the mind that "phones" are made so that my terrific, all modesty aside, VOICE can be heard by others whenever I wish to transmit my thoughts to 'em, and then subsequently when an instantaneous conversation can ensue without the need of waiting for that other person to reply in text form)

I sometimes post on here using my iPhone 7.  When I post using quotations around titles in lieu of italics, it's because I'm on my phone.  Trying to activate the italics on the phone is more trouble than it's worth.  I can type pretty fast on the touchscreen keyboard, that's not the issue.  My issue is that the message boards don't fit on the screen and it doesn't auto scroll when your text starts going off the screen.  I have to manually swipe to the right to see the rest of the screen, and then swipe back to the left when I get to the next line. I also prefer typing on the message board using the laptop. 

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SPOILERS FOR BLUE GARDENIA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I have a lot of issues with BLUE GARDENIA. Being a rabid Richard Conte fan, I love the movie (especially the fact that his wife IRL is featured in it).

But I really wish that Richard Conte and Raymond Burr could have swapped roles.

I just don't see petite Anne Baxter whacking huge Raymond Burr by accident. She might have had a chance killing Richard Conte if HE had played the "playboy" role, but this is the main problem with the movie, IMHO.


Raymond Burr (as he proved in his series "Ironside") was just BORN for cop roles, and he should have played the cop in BLUE GARDENIA.

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39 minutes ago, papyrusbeetle said:

SPOILERS FOR BLUE GARDENIA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I have a lot of issues with BLUE GARDENIA. Being a rabid Richard Conte fan, I love the movie (especially the fact that his wife IRL is featured in it).

But I really wish that Richard Conte and Raymond Burr could have swapped roles.

I just don't see petite Anne Baxter whacking huge Raymond Burr by accident. She might have had a chance killing Richard Conte if HE had played the "playboy" role, but this is the main problem with the movie, IMHO.


Raymond Burr (as he proved in his series "Ironside") was just BORN for cop roles, and he should have played the cop in BLUE GARDENIA.

Burr was 'born' to play the heavy as he did in many noir \ crime films.    He didn't play a good guy until Mason (and the Mason character is a borderline 'good guy' especially as written in the books).    

Yea,  Conte cast as the 'playboy' is a better fit then Burr,   but Burr as a cop at this stage in his career wouldn't have worked well.  

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5 hours ago, papyrusbeetle said:

SPOILERS FOR BLUE GARDENIA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I have a lot of issues with BLUE GARDENIA. Being a rabid Richard Conte fan, I love the movie (especially the fact that his wife IRL is featured in it).

But I really wish that Richard Conte and Raymond Burr could have swapped roles.

I just don't see petite Anne Baxter whacking huge Raymond Burr by accident. She might have had a chance killing Richard Conte if HE had played the "playboy" role, but this is the main problem with the movie, IMHO.

 

Uh, ok, I have no problem switching gears and talking about this film out of the blue. 🤨 Why not? This is Noir Alley.

However, I have to ask how often you've seen Blue Gardenia, because the whole point is    SPOILER  that Anne Baxter's character did not whack Raymond Burr with the poker. You'll recall the film goes all sort of blurry at that point; Anne passes out and when she comes to, she can't remember what happened, she just sees Burr's body and assumes she must have killed him.

But  SPOILER AGAIN   as the film eventually reveals, she did not. She is innocent. Remember the spurned record shop lady? She dunnit.  So, no, slightly built Anne Baxter did not overpower Raymond Burr, she just lost consciousness. Presumably Burr's character did not turn into Bill Cosby and do anything to her before the record shop lady arrived and put an end to his decadent woman-preying ways.  But that's all off-screen, of course.

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Still like Scarlett Street a bit better. I was commenting on another thread about Joan Bennett's see through top on that first dress she wears, my what wonders these restorations combined with HDTV make in revealing more than may have been originally intended.

My humble observation.

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53 minutes ago, cigarjoe said:

Still like Scarlett Street a bit better. I was commenting on another thread about Joan Bennett's see through top on that first dress she wears, my what wonders these restorations combined with HDTV make in revealing more than may have been originally intended.

My humble observation.

I have noticed that some actresses' wardrobe suddenly looks a lot more revealing on my UHD 4K TV than they ever did on the old 27" tube TV.  I would imagine that the film quality of 35mm film vs digital is quite different.  I'm sure that the filmmakers and production code had no idea that audiences 80 years in the future would be able to clearly tell if Myrna Loy was wearing underwear or not. 

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