Barton_Keyes

Noir Alley

3,536 posts in this topic

23 hours ago, Sgt_Markoff said:

He's too embarrassed. Who wouldn't be? Very rum crew here; in that everyone is anonymous; free-wheeling, (totally free accounts)...no accountability for anything we spout. Lounging around in our sweat pants scratching ourselves. Making off-color jokes. A site like this makes no sense in the commercial world. No host would ever want to mention it publicly!

Certain topics even for the free wheeling can be verboten though, Sgt. and get one banned, or possibly drawn and quartered. Not that this result isn't a mark of distinction in some ways though and shows a incipient rebellious spirit that is not anathema to movies in general and hence, ironic.

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I recall when Edie had a minor hissy fit a few years ago when someone dissed him on

this site. He asked if that person had ever had a book on the NYT's bestseller list as

Edie had. Kind of a jerk. 

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^_^ You're outdoing me in the use of five-dollar words there Cole Man

but yeah I still privately believe that the very medium ('anonymous chatrooms') makes them an unsavory reference, and too poor for anyone on TV to touch on. The internet is jibber-jabber; unless you have a big enough name like Reddit or Facebook you might as well just say you heard some guys on a streetcorner talking about movies.

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8 minutes ago, Vautrin said:

I recall when Edie had a minor hissy fit a few years ago when someone dissed him on

this site. He asked if that person had ever had a book on the NYT's bestseller list as

Edie had. Kind of a jerk. 

Yea Eddie is a lovable cool Noir jerk.

I'd love to see him show up here and take umbrage with a few pretentious blowhards that pontificate on here.

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1 hour ago, cigarjoe said:

Yea Eddie is a lovable cool Noir jerk.

I'd love to see him show up here and take umbrage with a few pretentious blowhards that pontificate on here.

Eddie is like licorice-flavored scotch, palatable in small doses. The whole czar of

noir riff gets pretty tiresome, but I suppose the guy has to make a living.

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2 minutes ago, Vautrin said:

Eddie is like licorice-flavored scotch, palatable in small doses. The whole czar of

noir riff gets pretty tiresome, but I suppose the guy has to make a living.

Exactly now you are getting in touch with your inner Noir. There is no difference between Eddie and say Stanton 'Stan' Carlisle.

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27 minutes ago, Sgt_Markoff said:

^_^ You're outdoing me in the use of five-dollar words there Cole Man

but yeah I still privately believe that the very medium ('anonymous chatrooms') makes them an unsavory reference, and too poor for anyone on TV to touch on. The internet is jibber-jabber; unless you have a big enough name like Reddit or Facebook you might as well just say you heard some guys on a streetcorner talking about movies.

Robert Mitchum in Out Of The Past:

"If you'll drop this Junior League patter we may get the conversation down where it belongs."

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"..the cheaper the crook, the gaudier the patter..."

I guess I'll make this jab at myself before someone else inevitably does! :D

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10 minutes ago, Sgt_Markoff said:

"..the cheaper the crook, the gaudier the patter..."

I guess I'll make this jab at myself before someone else inevitably does! :D

Fred MacMurray in Double Indemnity:

"Do I laugh now, or wait 'til it gets funny?"

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That reminds me--this thread or another one where Bill Holden is suggested as Walter Neff or Pip Marlowe--although Holden is my fave male star, I can't agree with these notions, myself. And I can state why.

First, Holden plays characters which seep cynicism and street-smarts, and also a sort of midwestern American caution. His characters have usually 'been around the block a few times' they seem to know 'when the odds are with the house'.

So in the first case (Double Indemnity) he wouldn't be fool enough to get involved with such a scheme; he'd know in advance it wouldn't work. He'd see through Stanwyck's character and wouldn't risk his future for her. Fred MacMurray was as ideal as Neff as he would be in his later Wilder role in 'The Apartment'. There's a foolish quality to MacMurray's Walter Neff; a sensuality, and in his portrayal of that seamy business executive as well who, years later, needs a love nest from Jack Lemmon.

In the second case, Holden as Marlowe...well, I'm sure he'd be good but would he be quintessential? The ideal Marlowe? I can't see this either. Again, the characters Holden usually plays are not dupes. Holden's type of American male, just doesn't strike me as the kind who would wind up in a dumb career like private-eye. One aspect of Dick Powell is that he looks perfect with an 'air of resignation' written all over his face. He looks like a man who has been taken down a few pegs and is content to just hang on in a lowly sector like sleuthing.

Oh well. I'm just musing out loud here, pardon me.

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21 minutes ago, Sgt_Markoff said:

That reminds me--this thread or another one where Bill Holden is suggested as Walter Neff or Pip Marlowe--although Holden is my fave male star, I can't agree with these notions, myself. And I can state why.

First, Holden plays characters which seep cynicism and street-smarts, and also a sort of midwestern American caution. His characters have usually 'been around the block a few times' they seem to know 'when the odds are with the house'.

So in the first case (Double Indemnity) he wouldn't be fool enough to get involved with such a scheme; he'd know in advance it wouldn't work. He'd see through Stanwyck's character and wouldn't risk his future for her. Fred MacMurray was as ideal as Neff as he would be in his later Wilder role in 'The Apartment'. There's a foolish quality to MacMurray's Walter Neff; a sensuality, and in his portrayal of that seamy business executive as well who, years later, needs a love nest from Jack Lemmon.

In the second case, Holden as Marlowe...well, I'm sure he'd be good but would he be quintessential? The ideal Marlowe? I can't see this either. Again, the characters Holden usually plays are not dupes. Holden's type of American male, just doesn't strike me as the kind who would wind up in a dumb career like private-eye. One aspect of Dick Powell is that he looks perfect with an 'air of resignation' written all over his face. He looks like a man who has been taken down a few pegs and is content to just hang on in a lowly sector like sleuthing.

Oh well. I'm just musing out loud here, pardon me.

It appears to me that indirectly you're saying that Holden didn't have the acting chops to overcome his screen persona.

 

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No, not saying that. Its more like I'm imaging him successfully pulling off either/both of these assignments, would we revere them as much as we do the results from Powell and MacMurray? All I can go on is what I see in the lineage of other characters Holden played as he developed his own career path. Remember, he was the leading star of of the 1950s (his peak years); and the character he seemed to define was the quintessential street-smart American male that Bogart was before him and that Jack Nicholson was after him. Its not that any of these actors couldn't accomplish the Neff or Marlowe role; but does it fit with the rest of their legacy? We're just speculating here. For me, its hard to see Jack Nicholson as any character who ever 'makes a fool of himself' for love. For example, the remake of 'Postman Always'. It seems like a bad fit for him, that role. And Marlowe/Neff would strike me as a bad fit for Holden.

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6 hours ago, cigarjoe said:

Exactly now you are getting in touch with your inner Noir. There is no difference between Eddie and say Stanton 'Stan' Carlisle.

Except that introducing movies is preferable to biting the heads off chickens and

Eddie is slightly less handsome than Tyrone.

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Ya know Sarge, I have to admit the you made some pretty good arguments above which stated your reservations about Holden in a roles of Neff and Marlowe.

Especially liked that line of yours above about how Dick Powell's physical appearance seemed more conducive to the role of Marlowe, or as you said:

Quote

He [Powell] looks perfect with an 'air of resignation' written all over his face. He looks like a man who has been taken down a few pegs and is content to just hang on in a lowly sector like sleuthing.

Although, I'll now throw out the thought here that perhaps an OLDER Bill Holden a little later in his career, and after all those years of heavy drinking would prematurely age and weather his appearance, would have passed THIS "physical test" of yours here, eh?!

And now regarding Holden playing Neff, or as you said about this:

Quote

He [Holden] wouldn't be fool enough to get involved with such a scheme; he'd know in advance it wouldn't work. He'd see through Stanwyck's character and wouldn't risk his future for her.

Let us not forget that Holden DID once famously play a guy who evidently WASN'T smart enough to NOT end up floating face down in a Beverly Hills mansion's swimming pool.

Of course with Double Indemnity being being made in 1944, Holden at the time would have been just a tad too young to have played Neff, as this also would have been a few years before his public image would change and thanks to his role in Sunset Blvd from usually being the light romantic lead to that of the more cynical and been-around-the-block-a-few-times type. And so there's this too.

(...but overall, yeah, I thought you made some good points up there)

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5 hours ago, Dargo said:

Let us not forget that Holden DID once famously play a guy who evidently WASN'T smart enough to NOT end up floating face down in a Beverly Hills mansion's swimming pool.

Exactly.

 

5 hours ago, Dargo said:

Although, I'll now throw out the thought here that perhaps an OLDER Bill Holden a little later in his career, and after all those years of heavy drinking would prematurely age and weather his appearance, would have passed THIS "physical test" of yours here, eh?!

He would have been similar to Mitchum in Farewell My Lovely

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21 hours ago, Hoganman1 said:

I totally agree with you on this. The assumption that everyone is on Facebook and/or Twitter drives me crazy. I'm on this site and a couple of golf forums, but that's it. I have no desire whatsoever to join those sites. My guess is that because there are ads on those forums we are all encouraged to join. I know a lot of people love social media because it allows them to easily communicate with friends and family. However, there is so much garbage out there one has to be very careful. My wife is on Facebook mainly to keep up with our children and grandchildren. Every day she shares with me some outlandish story that is circulating and masquerading as "news". 

Right-ee-o! 

But really, I keep up with MY children by calling them on the PHONE!  Hearing what's going on in their lives rather than READING about it, and hearing their sweet voices (and the emotions behind them) is MUCH better IMHO.

And I've often(and still) insist that the word is "twitter", with a CAPITAL "Twit"!  ;) 

I myself am on this forum, and two others centered on music.  I spend an average of two hours a morning on all three, and to me, that's MORE than enough time.

Sepiatone

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17 hours ago, TheCid said:

I have read some of those books.  Not bad, but a mix of short stories in each volume so some are good and some are not so good.  The publishers do periodically change the mix in the books so you may find ones you have already read in a volume with a different title.

I have read some of the short story collections in the Akashic Books noir series. It's true that each one is a bit of a mixed bag, but still an interesting series. I enjoyed the first Boston Noir book. I like the maps showing the dead-body outlines in each neighborhood where a story in the collection is set.

In any case, I usually go to film and print (not video games) for noir! 😀

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Quote

Let us not forget that Holden DID once famously play a guy who evidently WASN'T smart enough to NOT end up floating face down in a Beverly Hills mansion's swimming pool.

--Dargo from Fargo

Yes Darg but I think this is deceptive. Let's harken back to the evidence. All through the film, Gillis never wanted to be with Norma; never dreamed of it; the whole thing seemed absurd and grotesque to him. He was sucked in against his judgment; due to circumstances forced on him. We can't really slate him as a romantic fool because of this utterly weird predicament he found himself in. Fred MacMurray as Walter Neff, on the other hand, practically leapt into the arms of his femme fatale. :)

And then, near the end of the film, he (Gillis) finally does come to his senses, turns on his heel, and walks out. That's the crux right there. The gunshots from Norma, were an afterthought, an anticlimax, a codicil. Pyrrhic victory for her. Look at his posture when he's being plugged. Blithe. Even when being shot, he keeps striding on across the yard, almost serenely, knowing he's doing the right thing. -_-

Now, maybe this argument of mine once again flies in the face of the constant urge around here to designate everything under the sun, as "possible noir"...all that lies before us, merely "grist for the mills of noir"... we got 'list of noir actors' and 'list of noir music' and 'list of noir food' and 'list of noir furniture' I reckon. I can't help that zaniness. Takes all kinds of opinions to make an internet...  :(

BTW thanks for evaluating and responding to all my remarks above! Kind words as well. A pleasure to kick this subject around witcha...

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On 1/21/2019 at 5:48 PM, Sgt_Markoff said:

He's too embarrassed. Who wouldn't be? Very rum crew here; in that everyone is anonymous; free-wheeling, (totally free accounts)...no accountability for anything we spout. Lounging around in our sweat pants scratching ourselves. Making off-color jokes. A site like this makes no sense in the commercial world. No host would ever want to mention it publicly!

But, does that mean you think people who use Twitter and Facebook are not "lounging around in sweat pants and scratching" ?  As I understand it, those who frequent the more popular social media sites are far worse than we are when it comes to not worrying about accountability.

And I'll have you know that whenever I come to post on this site, I get my hair done and dress up in my best designer jeans and sparkly top. 

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Did Eddie say anything after Murder, My Sweet that we didnt already know? I didnt watch the film as I'd just watched it a month ago. I caught the intro, but forgot to tune in for the outro.

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mellifluously, MissWonderlyIII cooed:

Quote

And I'll have you know that whenever I come to post on this site, I get my hair done and dress up in my best designer jeans and sparkly top. 

Sure, the difference between Facebook and a random forum like this is in some ways, is perhaps just nominal or titulary. FB has got a big name, its run by a big, well-known company; but even so yes I'm sure people are sitting around at their keyboards on summer nights in their BVDs, sweating and disgusting, killing time with pointless status updates.

But in another sense: Facebook members constantly post pictures of themselves and what they happen to be doing at any given moment; businesses all have Facebook pages these days, and all Facebook members have been verified by real-world i.d. like driver's licenses and passports. Its a monitored phenomenon, monitored by all sorts of entities including law enforcement.

All of this maybe 'doesn't add up to a hill of beans' with regard to Mr. Muller's behavior but my opinion was (and is) that whereas he might casually mention a highly-recognizable brand-name like that, this little zone of loafers, has no such pedigree. We're a game preserve of surely vanishing species! :)

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13 minutes ago, Sgt_Markoff said:

mellifluously, MissWonderlyIII cooed:

Sure, the difference between Facebook and a random forum like this is in some ways, is perhaps just nominal or titulary. FB has got a big name, its run by a big, well-known company; but even so yes I'm sure people are sitting around at their keyboards on summer nights in their BVDs, sweating and disgusting, killing time with pointless status updates.

But in another sense: Facebook members constantly post pictures of themselves and what they happen to be doing at any given moment; businesses all have Facebook pages these days, and all Facebook members have been verified by real-world i.d. like driver's licenses and passports. Its a monitored phenomenon, monitored by all sorts of entities including law enforcement.

All of this maybe 'doesn't add up to a hill of beans' with regard to Mr. Muller's behavior but my opinion was (and is) that whereas he might casually mention a highly-recognizable brand-name like that, this little zone of loafers, has no such pedigree. We're a game preserve of surely vanishing species! :)

Related image

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21 hours ago, misswonderly3 said:

 

And I'll have you know that whenever I come to post on this site, I get my hair done and dress up in my best designer jeans and sparkly top. 

Ha! I dress for the occasion too. I have a suit with wide lapels, a trench coat, and a great fedora. I sit at my desk with a small glass of Scotch, light a cigarette by scratching a match, and start typing.

PS I like Eddie!

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45 minutes ago, Hoganman1 said:

Ha! I dress for the occasion too. I have a suit with wide lapels, a trench coat, and a great fedora. I sit at my desk with a small glass of Scotch, light a cigarette by scratching a match, and start typing.

PS I like Eddie!

I personally enjoy wearing a cheesy blonde wig, conspicuous inconspicuous sunglasses and an ankle bracelet while wearing a towel when I write on these forums.

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I don't dress for it and avoid alcohol in the mornings.  However, I am in my study and my wife has a collection of stuffed bears on top of a bookshelf.  One of them wears one of my father's ties that was probably purchased in the 30's.  Hand painted, very wide at the bottom and has horses in green, white and red on a blue background.  Also has colored areas in a mix of green, white and red.

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