Barton_Keyes

Noir Alley

4,609 posts in this topic

20 minutes ago, Hibi said:

It could've also meant he could procure a "girl" for him as well.

Most likely the above.

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26 minutes ago, misswonderly3 said:

Why do so many of those seedy hotel room scenes in old movies have a piano playing some bluesy tune, we don't know where it's coming from and it doesn't matter. I love these kinds of scenes, they're one of the most definitive of noir and strange old movies in general. 

 

The above, and always a similar sounding sleazy saxophone or horn jazz leitmotif for a sexy woman. 

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5 minutes ago, kingrat said:

The main character, of course, is Lilith herself. First seen all glammed out in evening gown and elaborate hairdo, then in her next appearance in a rather mannish suit. This is clearly a hint to those in the know. Lilith is bi enough to be interested in a sexual encounter with Stan, but then Tyrone Power has an unusual degree of sexual charisma, which the film uses to the fullest.

Helen Walker seems much more modern than some 40s actresses. It wouldn't be a stretch at all to imagine her playing, say, the Faye Dunaway role in Network.

YES.

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16 minutes ago, jamesjazzguitar said:

Anything else could be reefer or a porn mag.   The vibe I get is that this bell boy is offering something that isn't legal to offer to a hotel guest.

correct, anything, food, a bookie tip, a crap or poker game in one of the rooms....

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7 minutes ago, cigarjoe said:

Most likely the above.

That bellboy had a nice side business going on. LOL.

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1 hour ago, LornaHansonForbes said:

i tried to find some vintage CARNIVAL GEEK POSTER on google images, and i did not. i did however, find this, which i have to say, is pretty neat:

(not quite sure here just what MEPHISTO from FAUST and COUNT CHOCULA IN BAT FORM have to do with shooting through a woman, but i'd pay five bits to see it. )

a68cbf96587c49ce48e69ce8cef6e610.jpg

I remember going to a carnival as a child that had a "Side Show" with attractions. I guess a few still existed in the 60s. I remember it had a very sleazy atmosphere and I felt sorry for the "performers" there. I didn't actually "see" anything because you had to pay extra. And I didnt have any money to spend. (I guess my parents or grandparents paid for the general admission fee...)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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5 hours ago, TomJH said:

For my money four actors in Nightmare Alley were clearly worthy of Oscar nominations in 1947:

Tyrone Power, best actor

Joan Blondell, best supporting actress

Helen Walker, best supporting actress

Ian Keith, best supporting actor

Of course they all wound up with goose (or, should I say, chicken) eggs instead. Just another Oscar injustice, the Academy's history is full of them.

Maybe Nightmare Alley itself gets the final victory, though. Today it's hailed by many fans as a classic. I feel sorry that Ty Power, who had to fight to make this film, never lived to see that recognition.

Tom, when we were going year by year with our own Oscar nominations, some years we had to struggle to come up with supporting actress nominations. However, consider 1947: Joan Blondell and Helen Walker in Nightmare Alley; Kathleen Byron in Black Narcissus; Fay Bainter in Deep Valley; Ann Dvorak in both The Long Night and The Private Affairs of Bel Ami; and Esther Howard in Born To Kill. Brilliant performances, all unnominated. The actual Oscar nominees aren't too shabby, either: Celeste Holm (the winner) and Anne Revere in Gentlemen's Agreement; Gloria Grahame in Crossfire; and Marjorie Main, always fun, in The Egg and I. Ethel Barrymore was the fifth nominee, for The Paradine Case, a small part and not on a par with the other performances, but if Ethel Barrymore had been nominated for Night Song instead, I wouldn't have a problem with that. Great roles, even better performances.

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25 minutes ago, kingrat said:

The main character, of course, is Lilith herself. First seen all glammed out in evening gown and elaborate hairdo, then in her next appearance in a rather mannish suit. This is clearly a hint to those in the know. Lilith is bi enough to be interested in a sexual encounter with Stan, but then Tyrone Power has an unusual degree of sexual charisma, which the film uses to the fullest.

Helen Walker seems much more modern than some 40s actresses. It wouldn't be a stretch at all to imagine her playing, say, the Faye Dunaway role in Network.

The bell boy looked a little dicey to me. Maybe when he asked Stan if he wanted anything else he was referring to himself. ;)

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11 minutes ago, kingrat said:

Tom, when we were going year by year with our own Oscar nominations, some years we had to struggle to come up with supporting actress nominations. However, consider 1947: Joan Blondell and Helen Walker in Nightmare Alley; Kathleen Byron in Black Narcissus; Fay Bainter in Deep Valley; Ann Dvorak in both The Long Night and The Private Affairs of Bel Ami; and Esther Howard in Born To Kill. Brilliant performances, all unnominated. The actual Oscar nominees aren't too shabby, either: Celeste Holm (the winner) and Anne Revere in Gentlemen's Agreement; Gloria Grahame in Crossfire; and Marjorie Main, always fun, in The Egg and I. Ethel Barrymore was the fifth nominee, for The Paradine Case, a small part and not on a par with the other performances, but if Ethel Barrymore had been nominated for Night Song instead, I wouldn't have a problem with that. Great roles, even better performances.

Yes, a great year. At least for supporting actresses.

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40 minutes ago, Hibi said:

That bellboy had a nice side business going on. LOL.

JIM THOMPSON Is one of my all-time favorite writers, and he was a bellboy in a high-rise, ten story or so, hotel in a wildcat oil town in Texas (or Oklahoma or both) for a bit. Used to be, the bellhop was the hook up for whatever you wanted. Many of his stories and books have characters who are bell hops in hotels. The best is probably WILD NIGHT

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50 minutes ago, kingrat said:

 

Helen Walker seems much more modern than some 40s actresses. It wouldn't be a stretch at all to imagine her playing, say, the Faye Dunaway role in Network.

Yes, I can see her read of “I shall sack the lot of you” being almost as good as Faye’s.

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46 minutes ago, kingrat said:

The main character, of course, is Lilith herself. First seen all glammed out in evening gown and elaborate hairdo, then in her next appearance in a rather mannish suit. This is clearly a hint to those in the know. Lilith is bi enough to be interested in a sexual encounter with Stan, but then Tyrone Power has an unusual degree of sexual charisma, which the film uses to the fullest.

Helen Walker seems much more modern than some 40s actresses. It wouldn't be a stretch at all to imagine her playing, say, the Faye Dunaway role in Network.

Ok, yeah, I figured you were thinking of Lilith (as opposed to the bell boy scene...)

I don't have the time to go back and find an earlier comment here about Lilith's sexual orientation (I mean, there's now pages and pages of posts about Nightmare Alley !), but I believe it was Vautrin who said something about Lilith's being "butch".

And yes, she does appear all suited up and vaguely masculine-looking the next  time we see her - after the night club scene, where's she's dressed up like any glamourous feminine woman. And maybe there is a bit of a "butch" vibe about her in the office scenes. But we also should remember that she was a career woman, a professional, and a professional woman in what was then almost entirely a man's world- I'm guessing there were very few female psychologists back then (ok, a few...Ingrid Bergman in "Spellbound" comes to mind...).

So the director/art director people probably wanted to signal that this was a "serious" woman, a woman who was a success in her professional field. And in 1947, one of the best ways to show that was to have the woman dressed in a suit.

Of course, she could also have been "bi"...I like the ambiguity of this topic. We can think Lilith was just a good business woman, or she was bi, or anything we want. It's one of the things about these kinds of films that I like.

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4 minutes ago, LornaHansonForbes said:

JIM THOMPSON Is one of my all-time favorite writers, and he was a bellboy in a high-rise, ten story or so, hotel in a wildcat oil town in Texas (or Oklahoma or both) for a bit. Used to be, the bellhop was the hook up for whatever you wanted. Many of his stories and books have characters who are bell hops in hotels. The best is probably WILD NIGHT

I've never actually read any of his books but have seen some film adaptions. i'm sure a lot went on behind the scenes. Doubt they were paid very well, so they sought out other ways to augment their salary. :D

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1 hour ago, kingrat said:

The main character, of course, is Lilith herself. First seen all glammed out in evening gown and elaborate hairdo, then in her next appearance in a rather mannish suit. This is clearly a hint to those in the know. Lilith is bi enough to be interested in a sexual encounter with Stan, but then Tyrone Power has an unusual degree of sexual charisma, which the film uses to the fullest.

Helen Walker seems much more modern than some 40s actresses. It wouldn't be a stretch at all to imagine her playing, say, the Faye Dunaway role in Network.

Yes! What you said about Ty's sexual charisma. It's more than his handsomeness (George Brent was handsome, and he's about as sexy as a glass of skim milk... sorry, Hibi !)

And anyone agree that in Nightmare Alley, Ty looks even sexier in that white tee shirt than when he's in a suit?

Ty in a suit:

 

Image result for tyrone power nightmare alley

Ty in a tee shirt  (!)

Image result for tyrone power nightmare alley

Oh baby !

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3 minutes ago, misswonderly3 said:

Yes! What you said about Ty's sexual charisma. It's more than his handsomeness (George Brent was handsome, and he's about as sexy as a glass of skim mile...) 

And anyone agree that in Nightmare Alley, Ty looks even sexier in that white tee shirt than when he's in a suit?

Ty in a suit:

 

Image result for tyrone power nightmare alley

Ty in a tee shirt  (!)

Image result for tyrone power nightmare alley

Oh baby !

Hey, I resemble that remark! :(

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12 minutes ago, misswonderly3 said:

Yes! 

 

Image result for tyrone power nightmare alleyin a tee shirt  (!)I

Image result for tyrone power nightmare alley

Oh baby !

In re: the second photo

The costume designer was very smart, or at least they knew the age old trick of making someone’s chest look bigger by making the arms short on a T-shirt.

It’s all about the length of the arms that makes a T-shirt look good- And the sleeve length on Powers shirt is ideal

Lots and lots of times, and especially in film noirs, what Hollywood’s idea of a sexy body then, it’s not really a sexy body now. I’m thinking of a lot of guys in sleeveless T-shirts who are about as appealing as a concrete abutment . That’s not the case and NIGHTMARE ALLEy, POWER looks absolutely great, Even by modern standards

. Not only do his T-shirts fit well, his pants do as well. If only the same fitter had worked with Dana Andrews, who bless his heart always seems To be wearing his pants hiked up to his armpits.

 

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Oh, And for the record, early 30s George Brent was legit handsome. Also, He was Irish so he was probably sexier in real life.

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3 hours ago, Hibi said:

There is the hotel clerk who sells Power a bottle of gin, then asks if he'd like anything else. I never picked up on that until someone here pointed it out. Not sure if it was meant to be sexual, but it could be.

I interpreted it as offering to provide a woman.  I did't see a gay context at all.

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29 minutes ago, TheCid said:

I interpreted it as offering to provide a woman.  I did't see a gay context at all.

I could see it either way. But Power wasn't interested so it's dropped. I wouldn't have thought much about it had someone on the boards not pointed it out (last showing probably).

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3 hours ago, LornaHansonForbes said:

Oh, And for the record, early 30s George Brent was legit handsome. Also, He was Irish so he was probably sexier in real life.

And he was probably a member of the IRA in the early 1920s for which I give him two kneecaps up.

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Maybe the bell boy was just offering tonic water to go along with the bottle of gin.

I believe the bell boys and desk clerks in the Philip Marlowe novels were usually a

bit on the seamy side and always knew where the "action" was. I guess I'm so used

to the sleazy surroundings of many noirs that I sometimes don't pay attention to

the details. 

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39 minutes ago, Vautrin said:

And he was probably a member of the IRA in the early 1920s for which I give him two kneecaps up.

I've read his taking a job in HOLLYWOOD was a way for him to literally avoid being questioned because he was an associate of Michael Collins.

When I learned George was Irish, it made me understand the kind of flat stilted quality that's in his voice sometimes; I imagine it's awfully hard to hide a Brogue, but George did well.

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4 hours ago, Hibi said:

I've never actually read any of [JIM THOMPSON'S] books but have seen some film adaptions.

I think you'd really like him a lot- if you've seen the film, THE GRIFTERS cannot be the same for you (that ending is SUCH a SHOCKER in the book!) BUT IT WILL ALWAYS BE ONE OF MY MOST MEMORABLE READING EXPERIENCES.

THE KILLER INSIDE ME is also excellent, as is WILD TOWN- which features the deranged Sheriff who is the titular killer of THE KILLER INSIDE ME. Both of them walk a fine line between noir and black comedy and they make brilliant companion books to one another.

I really recommend starting with THE KILLER INSIDE ME.

A HELL OF A WOMAN is also, as I recall, a hilarious black black comedy.

some of his stuff SUCKS (and he would admit that, I think), but his stuff that is good is GREAT.

He also wrote PATHS OF GLORY (the script.)

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THE TRANSGRESSORS is another FOUR STAR Jim Thompson book. And SOUTH OF HEAVEN is good.

I don't care for THE GETAWAY or THE ALCOHOLICS

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I'll try to do some reading (but in summer I'm rather busy). I loved The Grifters (the film, anyway). I'm sure I'd enjoy him.

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