Barton_Keyes

Noir Alley

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56 minutes ago, Dargo said:

While Cid may not have at first gotten your earlier Geronimo/Cochise joke here Tom, I know somebody around here who'll at least very much appreciate your posting of that Jeff Chandler pix in the film Broken Arrow (filmed right here in Sedona AZ, btw), anyway.

(...lavenderblue...she's a BIG fan of Jeff's, ya know) ;)

No, I didn't know lavenderblue was a big fan of Jeff's, Dargo. I do know, though, that if I had posted a nice photo of Ty she'd have been pleased as punch, even if it had nothing to do with the conversation.

So I'll make her happy now:

nightmarealley_isaguybornthatway_fc_470x

"A geek - how does a guy get that way?"

"I don't know but I do know that lavenderblue really likes you."

 

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Thanks Tom, you do have the cutest sense of humor :D and you too Dargo ;)

Dargo, that's really nice that you remembered that I like Jeff Chandler. I liked his performances, but more than that, I've read what a truly nice man he was. He and Sammy Davis Jr. were very close friends, when Sammy had that horrible accident and lost his eye, Jeff Chandler offered to give him his eye to replace the one Sammy lost. I admire that very much. He was also very proud of his Jewish heritage and a very strong supporter of israel. He was a liberal Democrat and campaigned for JFK. He had strong beliefs and was willing to back them up and that's admirable. Very sad that Jeff died when he was only 42 due to malpractice on the part of a surgeon.

Jeff Chandler was just a nice man and a good actor and although he was typecast he did a good job with those performances.

Now back to Noir :)

 

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7 hours ago, TheCid said:

I think there actually is a Bay City in CA, but not sure.  I know that it was used several times as a non-LA location in The Rockford Files.

Yes. I think one of the episodes had Bay City in the title, though I don't remember the

exact title. It was one of those places where the cops made it difficult for a PI to operate.

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"A geek-how does a guy get that way?"

"Well, first you've got to like the taste of chicken."

 

Maybe I missed the sequence of events, but in Dead Reckoning Liz is being blackmailed by

Karnovsky, but she was also working for him. Doesn't sound like a very smart move on

his part. 

 

 

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apologize for taking up so much room, but below is a partial list of directing credits from JOHN CROMWELL (I left off his early stuff)

each of these titles is a link that'll take you to its corresponding imdb page

(JOHN is also the father of JAMES CROMWELL, the Oscar nominated star of BABE and LA CONFIDENTIAL)

 1958 The Goddess
 1951 The Racket
 1950 Caged
 1947 Night Song
 1945 Watchtower Over Tomorrow (Documentary short)
 1944 Guest in the House (uncredited)
 1940 Victory
 1939 In Name Only
 1938 The Adventures of Marco Polo (uncredited)
 1938 Algiers
 1935 Jalna
 1935 Village Tale
 1934 The Fountain
 1934 Spitfire
 1933 Ann Vickers
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4 hours ago, misswonderly3 said:

So, getting back to Dead Reckoning - can anyone answer my question about that office of Martinelli's, and why sometimes it seems like it's in his nightclub (like in "Gilda" and many other noirs with bad nightclub/casino owners), and other times the exact same office appears to be in Martinelli's home?

 Like, in the penultimate scene where Rip and Martinelli rush down the stairs and Martinelli bursts out the door and is shot: it doesn't look even remotely like the nightclub setting - except for that office ! Didn't anyone else notice this? Or does it simply not matter? (maybe that's the answer right there.)

I always thought, and still do, that it was in the nightclub.  For one thing, it is upstairs in the final scenes.  Also, the waiter and Krause had too easy access for it to be out at the beach house.  It may be a matter of different parts of different sets which really don't fit with the proper locations.  It does seem that they go directly in from the club in the early scenes, but I still think it was always supposed to be in the back of the club.

As for Scott, I enjoy her in just about anything I have seen her in.  I think she was very good here.

 

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2 hours ago, Vautrin said:

Yes. I think one of the episodes had Bay City in the title, though I don't remember the

exact title. It was one of those places where the cops made it difficult for a PI to operate.

What ?  Wait! -   ...I always thought that town was named after the Bay City Rollers.

 

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3 hours ago, misswonderly3 said:

What ?  Wait! -   ...I always thought that town was named after the Bay City Rollers.

 

Considering these lads hailed from Edinburgh Scotland, you'd think they would've named their band the "Firth City Rollers" instead, wouldn't ya say MissW?

Get IT?! Like the ocean inlet the "Firth of Forth" that Edinburgh sits closely by?!!!

(...oh never mind...this wasn't that clever anyway, was it) ;)

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5 hours ago, misswonderly3 said:

What ?  Wait! -   ...I always thought that town was named after the Bay City Rollers.

 

I haven't heard that one in years, though I haven't been longing to either. I doubt any musically

self-respecting community would name itself after the Bay City Rollers. I'm proud that the Rollers

were much less popular in America than in the UK and Canada, though Saturday Night is a pretty

catchy tune. I like this one from a few years earlier. Oh no.

 

 

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Re: the location of the office scenes. I agree that it’s confusing in the beginning. Bogart asks Scott where Martinelli lives and then asks her to drive him there. But when Bogart arrives to look through Martinelli’s safe and other belongings, Bogart’s narration says something to the effect of returning to the scene where he and Scott were drugged. Maybe they went to Martinelli’s house to see if he was home? Figuring that if he’s at home, he won’t be at the club? It seems like a bit of a leap to make the audience figure out, but I dunno. Maybe a scene or two of Bogart and Scott at Martinelli’s home was cut, but they overlooked Bogart’s dialogue asking Scott about Martinelli’s home? 

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9 hours ago, speedracer5 said:

Re: the location of the office scenes. I agree that it’s confusing in the beginning. Bogart asks Scott where Martinelli lives and then asks her to drive him there. But when Bogart arrives to look through Martinelli’s safe and other belongings, Bogart’s narration says something to the effect of returning to the scene where he and Scott were drugged. Maybe they went to Martinelli’s house to see if he was home? Figuring that if he’s at home, he won’t be at the club? It seems like a bit of a leap to make the audience figure out, but I dunno. Maybe a scene or two of Bogart and Scott at Martinelli’s home was cut, but they overlooked Bogart’s dialogue asking Scott about Martinelli’s home? 

Thanks for trying to figure it out, speedy. Next time I watch it (if I do and if I don't fall asleep), I'll try and listen carefully to the voice-over narration at the point where Rip's supposedly at Martinelli's home.

Truth is, I suspect, that the filmmakers didn't really notice or care about this detail. And after all,maybe that's what happens when you have five different writers on a script.

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11 hours ago, Vautrin said:

I haven't heard that one in years, though I haven't been longing to either. I doubt any musically

self-respecting community would name itself after the Bay City Rollers. I'm proud that the Rollers

were much less popular in America than in the UK and Canada, though Saturday Night is a pretty

catchy tune. I like this one from a few years earlier. Oh no.

 

 

Hmm. I hate to say it, but I do remember that one. Very catchy.

Forgive me, Noir Alley posters, for derailing this thread. This kind of pop music is about as un-noir as you can get. But I can't resist, I promise I'll go to one of the music threads if I feel the need to do this any more. But I thought maybe Vautrin, and possibly others here, might appreciate this:

 

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11 hours ago, speedracer5 said:

Re: the location of the office scenes. I agree that it’s confusing in the beginning. Bogart asks Scott where Martinelli lives and then asks her to drive him there. But when Bogart arrives to look through Martinelli’s safe and other belongings, Bogart’s narration says something to the effect of returning to the scene where he and Scott were drugged. Maybe they went to Martinelli’s house to see if he was home? Figuring that if he’s at home, he won’t be at the club? It seems like a bit of a leap to make the audience figure out, but I dunno. Maybe a scene or two of Bogart and Scott at Martinelli’s home was cut, but they overlooked Bogart’s dialogue asking Scott about Martinelli’s home? 

If I recall, I think he was enroute with Dusty's car to plant the body at Martinelli's house.  Somehow that either did not happen or else it happened "off screen" and then Bogart was back at Martinelli's office.   If I recall Bogart had asked where Martinelli lived with the intention of placing the bartender's body there and then telling the police where it was located.  Naturally he would need to be long gone from the house if that were to happen.

Then again, trying to recall here, planting the body at Martinell's house and calling the police was what Bogart needed to get Martinelli out of his office at the club so he could crack the safe.

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8 minutes ago, TheCid said:

If I recall, I think he was enroute with Dusty's car to plant the body at Martinelli's house.  Somehow that either did not happen or else it happened "off screen" and then Bogart was back at Martinelli's office.   If I recall Bogart had asked where Martinelli lived with the intention of placing the bartender's body there and then telling the police where it was located.  Naturally he would need to be long gone from the house if that were to happen.

Then again, trying to recall here, planting the body at Martinell's house and calling the police was what Bogart needed to get Martinelli out of his office at the club so he could crack the safe.

That makes sense.  I forgot about the body in the trunk! I feel like the 5 writers could have at least added a scene showing Bogart bringing in the body, or making the call or something would have made that whole scene a lot easier to follow.

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6 hours ago, misswonderly3 said:

Hmm. I hate to say it, but I do remember that one. Very catchy.

Forgive me, Noir Alley posters, for derailing this thread. This kind of pop music is about as un-noir as you can get. But I can't resist, I promise I'll go to one of the music threads if I feel the need to do this any more. But I thought maybe Vautrin, and possibly others here, might appreciate this:

 

I'm just happy that the "pants" of the Rollers never became a fashion item. Not even Ethel Mertz

would be caught dead in those things. Whenever Little Willy came on the radio it was hard not to

clap or stomp along. Nick Lowe was one of the masters of pure pop, along with, ahem, Dave

Edmunds. This was the song that Krause would turn way up on the radio when he was in a room

beating the you know what out of some poor unfortunate and did not want to be disturbed. :)

 

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Dead Reckoning still not on demand as of last night and this is one title I do not own, sorry to miss the conversation. I do have links to Eddie's intro and outro but still waiting to see if it shows. I've had some take almost a week.

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Love this poster, cigarjoe. A few of the characters pictured are not actually femmes fatales, but it's great to have all these pictures on one poster.

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6 minutes ago, kingrat said:

Love this poster, cigarjoe. A few of the characters pictured are not actually femmes fatales, but it's great to have all these pictures on one poster.

I saw it on Facebook somebody the nice poster was copied to Classic Film Noir Lovers by ‎Sorcha Cavanaugh.

I think instead of Femme Fatales as you say it should be labeled Female Leads in Film Noir  to cover all the bases.

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19 hours ago, Vautrin said:

I'm just happy that the "pants" of the Rollers never became a fashion item. Not even Ethel Mertz

would be caught dead in those things. Whenever Little Willy came on the radio it was hard not to

clap or stomp along. Nick Lowe was one of the masters of pure pop, along with, ahem, Dave

Edmunds. This was the song that Krause would turn way up on the radio when he was in a room

beating the you know what out of some poor unfortunate and did not want to be disturbed. :)

 

I have to admit, I like this Dave Edmunds version better than the original. Dave is a much under-rated musician and song-writer. I figure you already know that John Lennon loved this recording when it came out in 1970.

I like the way you segued the song back to "Dead Reckoning". Yeah, nothing could stop that thug from enjoying his music while he beat Rip up.  He reminded me a bit of Chester (from D.O.A.)

Those dancers are pretty lame. But then, it's not really a "dance" type song.

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5 hours ago, cigarjoe said:

Image may contain: 24 people

kingrat's right, several of those ladies, while they did appear in noirs, are definitely not femme fatales. It kind of annoys me how, people who have just discovered noir and maybe don't know that much about it yet, always assume that any lead female character in a noir has to be a femme fatale.

...I read your explanation, cigarjoe, and I know you're just reposting something you saw on Facebook. And I appreciate it, it's an interesting list. I also was NOT including you in that category ("people who have just discovered noir and don't know that much about it yet".)  I meant the person who originally compiled that list. (I'd say you know a lot about noir.)

Just for fun..off-hand, I'd say the following on that list are NOT femme fatales: Candy ("Pickup on South St"), Gilda (from "Gilda"), Debby (from "The Big Heat"), Laura (from "Laura"), and Keechie (from "They Live by Night".) Probably more. I couldn't see the poster all that clearly, and couldn't read all the characters and film titles.

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1 hour ago, misswonderly3 said:

Debby (from "The Big Heat")

Didn't Debby throw boiling coffee in Vince Stone's (Lee Marvin) face and kill Bertha Duncan (Jeannette Nolan). she was pretty fatale to Bertha. 😎

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6 minutes ago, cigarjoe said:

Didn't Debby throw boiling coffee in Vince Stone's (Lee Marvin) face and kill Bertha Duncan (Jeannette Nolan). she was pretty fatale to Bertha. 😎

I don't see it that way, at least from the audience's view point. Vince Stone - sweet vengeance for what he did to her, and Debby stopped Bertha, who was a low life anyway. Nobody sympathizes with either of those "victims" of Debby's.

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30 minutes ago, cigarjoe said:

Didn't Debby throw boiling coffee in Vince Stone's (Lee Marvin) face and kill Bertha Duncan (Jeannette Nolan). she was pretty fatale to Bertha. 😎

What Tom said. (the post above.)

I think you're kidding, what with the "cool" emoji and all. However, just in case you're not: as Tom said, those things Debby did were justified. The woman she killed was one of the bad ones, she had to shoot her to trigger the letter to the police which would uncover the whole corrupt story; and as for Vince, as Tom said, he did it first to her. Revenge. (and it wouldn't have mattered as much to Vince, as he was kind of ugly anyway, whereas Debby counted on her pretty face, and Vince has ruined that forever. Just sayin'.)

I know that cigarjoe knows what I'm about to say, so this is not directed at him. Or at anyone on this thread, since I believe we're all "on the same page" more or less when it comes to understanding noir.

But anyway: any true film noir fan knows that 1) there are many great noirs that don't even have such a character in them, and they're not always essential to a noir story. and 2) when there is a "femme fatale" in a noir, she functions as a woman who uses her sexual allure to manipulate the male protagonist to get what she wants. She doesn't always actively seek for the protagonist to die or even get into trouble; it's more that she doesn't care whether that happens or not, so long as she comes out all right herself (which usually, she doesn't.)

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7 hours ago, cigarjoe said:

Image may contain: 24 people

Nice poster, but I had difficulty reading the movie titles and actor's names for most.  So it is hard to comment on the femme fatale characterizations. 

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