Barton_Keyes

Noir Alley

4,956 posts in this topic

14 hours ago, cigarjoe said:

Ida Lupino looks really hot in this flick.

I thought Rhonda Fleming was the hottest one in this, even in B&W she is stunning.

Vincent Price and Rhonda Fleming in While the City Sleeps (1956)

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

While watching this film last night again, I started wondering which actor might've played the most number of cuckold husbands in their careers. Vincent Price or Herbert Marshall?

(...any guesses out there?)

  • Haha 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Thenryb said:

Robert Manners? I googled the name and only came up with a Royal Navy officer who died in 1782. However, agree that John Drew Barrymore was really hammy.

Robert Manners is the name of the character the actor John Drew Barrymore played (really poorly).

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Thenryb said:

Robert Manners? I googled the name and only came up with a Royal Navy officer who died in 1782. However, agree that John Drew Barrymore was really hammy.

Oops, dumb mistake on my part ! Sorry, Thenry and everyone else, I read the wiki cast list for When the City Sleeps carelessly.  "Robert Manners" was the name of the film's psycho killer character, not the actor who played him.(Although I don't remember that name being actually mentioned in the film - maybe the newspaper headline at the end?)

The name of the actor who (over) played the murderer was John Drew Barrymore, son of the famous and deservedly venerated John Barrymore (who could be quite hammy, but in a good way. Like Vincent Price.)

But you know, Thenry, you could have just openly said I was mistaken, that I'd mixed up the actor's name with his character's. That kind of thing doesn't offend me at all. I'm actually more offended that you didn't just come out and say I'd mixed them up, instead of mentioning someone totally unconnected with the film with the same name as Barrymore's character. Just be direct, I don't mind.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, misswonderly3 said:

But you know, Thenry, you could have just openly said I was mistaken, that I'd mixed up the actor's name with his character's. That kind of thing doesn't offend me at all. I'm actually more offended that you didn't just come out and say I'd mixed them up, instead of mentioning someone totally unconnected with the film with the same name as Barrymore's character. Just be direct, I don't mind.

Yes, I could have just said you exchanged the character's name for the actor's name, but (fie on me) I did not notice or recall that Robert Manners was the name of the character. I googled the name because I thought it might be a pseudonym for the Barrymore boy. I claim entitlement to a "senior moment". It is not likely to be my last.

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A key Dana Andrews performance not mentioned by anyone is in Daisy Kenyon, a 1947 triangle drama co-starring Joan Crawford and Henry Fonda. Andrews plays a surprisingly complex character and easily steals top acting honours, in my opinion, from his two co-stars.

By the way Daisy Kenyon has an unbilled cameo appearance by a well known noir actor. Anyone recognize him in this shot?

daisy5.jpg

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, TomJH said:

A key Dana Andrews performance not mentioned by anyone is in Daisy Kenyon, a 1947 triangle drama co-starring Joan Crawford and Henry Fonda. Andrews plays a surprisingly complex character and easily steals top acting honours, in my opinion, from his two co-stars.

By the way Daisy Kenyon has an unbilled cameo appearance by a well known noir actor. Anyone recognize him in this shot?

daisy5.jpg

Garfield.   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Rhonda Fleming always looked hot. She would look hot in a Hazmat suit. Whereas Ida was helped

by that somewhat low cut dress. I wouldn't consider this a star studded film. Outside of Dana

Andrews and Ida and to a lesser degree Price, most of the actors were second leads or character

actors. They handle their roles well, but I wouldn't call them major stars. Why was Junior such a

ham? Ask Mommy? He didn't get much help from what was a stereotypical role and with

a script that doesn't give him much to do except skulk around the big city during the

day. I've seen Junior on a few TV shows where he gave a much better performance in

part because he had a developed character and a better script. Here's a way to solve the

Vincent Price Herbert Marshall cuckold question. Divide it into wood leg actors and non-

wood leg actors. Price wins the latter and ol' Herb wins the former. Just because

someone likes newspapers and old comic books doesn't seem enough of a reason to

screen a particular movie. What if someone liked asparagus and Felix the

Cat? C'mon, man.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, mr6666 said:

Michael Kronenberg @MWKronenberg 9h9 hours ago

There ya go, folks. My contribution to @EddieMuller’s @NoirAlley, those are my comics.

I sent them to him for this movie. #NoirAlley #WhileTheCitySleeps

#FilmNoir #ECComics @noirfoundation @eccomics

If those are originals, they are probably highly-valuable collectors items!  I hope Eddie didn't damage them 😊

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, Vautrin said:

Rhonda Fleming always looked hot. She would look hot in a Hazmat suit. Whereas Ida was helped

by that somewhat low cut dress. I wouldn't consider this a star studded film. Outside of Dana

Andrews and Ida and to a lesser degree Price, most of the actors were second leads or character

actors. They handle their roles well, but I wouldn't call them major stars. Why was Junior such a

ham? Ask Mommy? He didn't get much help from what was a stereotypical role and with

a script that doesn't give him much to do except skulk around the big city during the

day. I've seen Junior on a few TV shows where he gave a much better performance in

part because he had a developed character and a better script. Here's a way to solve the

Vincent Price Herbert Marshall cuckold question. Divide it into wood leg actors and non-

wood leg actors. Price wins the latter and ol' Herb wins the former. Just because

someone likes newspapers and old comic books doesn't seem enough of a reason to

screen a particular movie. What if someone liked asparagus and Felix the

Cat? C'mon, man.

I dunno, Vautrin. I think you're being a little harsh on Eddie. It wasn't quite as random as you're making out. And anyway, I like Mr. Muller's forthrightness when it comes to that kind of thing. Hey, it's his show, and if he wants to screen a film because it's got some kind of personal connection for him, as long as the film's good anyway, I don't mind. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, misswonderly3 said:

I dunno, Vautrin. I think you're being a little harsh on Eddie. It wasn't quite as random as you're making out. And anyway, I like the Mr. Muller's forthrightness when it comes to that kind of thing. Hey, it's his show, and if he wants to screen a film because it's got some kind of personal connection for him, as long as the film's good anyway, I don't mind. 

In one way it wasn't random at all since he said one of the reasons, maybe the main

one, he showed it was because it included two of his favorite subjects--newspapers and

comic books. While it's no big deal, it is kind of silly. What if he also likes Silly Putty and

Snuffy Smith? Not that it matters that much, but most people could likely make the case

for WTCS being a film noir, comic books or not.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
43 minutes ago, Vautrin said:

In one way it wasn't random at all since he said one of the reasons, maybe the main

one, he showed it was because it included two of his favorite subjects--newspapers and

comic books. While it's no big deal, it is kind of silly. What if he also likes Silly Putty and

Snuffy Smith? Not that it matters that much, but most people could likely make the case

for WTCS being a film noir, comic books or not.

 

You might have forgotten here Vautrin that during Eddie's out-tro he also "confessed" one of the reasons for his pick of this film was that his father was a good friend of fellow San Francisco newspaperman Charles Einstein, the writer of the novel The Bloody Spur upon which this Fritz Lang film was based.

Eddie went on to relay the story of family dinners which would occasionally include a very entertaining Einstein, and then also mentioned that Einstein was the older half-brother of comedian/actor/film maker Albert Brooks (real name, Albert Einstein) and comedian Bob Einstein (aka "Super Dave Osborne").

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, Dargo said:

Yep, and a young Dana Andrews is very good when he was first starting out in the biz, and even though he's only billed fourth is actually the star of it, would be in french director's Jean Renoir Hollywood era movie Swamp Water.

(...come to think of it, the style and look of this excellent film COULD perhaps define it as a "noir", and even though it's set in the back country of the deep south)

Swamp Water, a very good atmospheric film,  also shows Dana Andrews' versatility as an actor. It was Laura, I suspect, that typecast him into playing largely stoic characters on the screen, but in this Jean Renoir film, in portraying a young man rebelling against his stern authoritarian father, he displayed considerable sensitivity (just as he would as a performer soon afterward in The Ox Bow Incident, which has a particularly good, even heart wrenching, performance by him).

Andrews had a solid run of films during the 1940s. However, after Where the Sidewalks Ends in 1950 his best films were behind him, and he started to appear in a lot more mundane fare in which he didn't shine as impressively as during the best of his '40s films (including Best Years of Our Lives and Daisy Kenyon). Noir fans may appreciate Andrews more than others because of his strong contributions to the genre.

af55f10d1a4b47750f5fedbb4539a712.jpg

 

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

OK, so Eddie likes to show "noir" movies about the foibles of the newspaper business...  Has he ever shown DEADLINE U.S.A.? ('52)  

While yesterday's film was OK, I can still do without sitting through ten minutes of precious movie watching time hearing Eddie drone vaucuously on and on.  And I gotta start keeping a bucket next to my chair in case he AGAIN goes incessantly on about his sportswriter Father and his "noir lifestyle". 

Sepiatone 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Vautrin said:

In one way it wasn't random at all since he said one of the reasons, maybe the main

one, he showed it was because it included two of his favorite subjects--newspapers and

comic books. While it's no big deal, it is kind of silly. What if he also likes Silly Putty and

Snuffy Smith? Not that it matters that much, but most people could likely make the case

for WTCS being a film noir, comic books or not.

 

Well, I suspect Eddie is sensitive to criticism from viewers and his social media followers (since he seems to pay more attention to that then to this thread) about some of his picks not being "noir" enough. So he seems to feel a need to justify certain selections if they don't fit the somewhat narrow definition of noir many people hold.  What a lot of neophyte  noir fans don't seem to realize is that a lot of film noir movies actually have happy -or happyish- endings. This seems to annoy them, and I imagine they fill their Noir Alley Twitter comments with complaints about how some of the films Eddie chooses to show on Noir Alley aren't true noirs, probably citing all sorts of reasons that fit with their own definition of the term.

I know Eddie's mentioned something about this before, I forget what he said, but I do know that whenever he shows a noir that doesn't fit the "standard" idea (usually held by newcomers to this sort of film) he seems to feel a need to 'splain why he has scheduled the title in Noir Alley.

By the way, ways in which I think one could argue that While the City Sleeps is a noir: there's a crime story (although it's not the main story), a few scenes of urban streets at night, complete with wet sidewalks and dark alleys (maybe not as many as some would like), a lot of cynical dialogue, and a lot of drinking. Everyone in the film, with the possible exception of Nancy, seems to see the world as a tough unfair place. Oh, and back to the drinking: I love that bar where they all hang out. I really like all those bars you see in old movies, the ones where you have to go down a few steps to get to them. Those kinds of bars seem to have been all over the place back then.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, misswonderly3 said:

Well, I suspect Eddie is sensitive to criticism from viewers and his social media followers (since he seems to pay more attention to that then to this thread) about some of his picks not being "noir" enough. So he seems to feel a need to justify certain selections if they don't fit the somewhat narrow definition of noir many people hold.  What a lot of neophyte  noir fans don't seem to realize is that a lot of film noir movies actually have happy -or happyish- endings. This seems to annoy them, and I imagine they fill their Noir Alley Twitter comments with complaints about how some of the films Eddie chooses to show on Noir Alley aren't true noirs, probably citing all sorts of reasons that fit with their own definition of the term.

I know Eddie's mentioned something about this before, I forget what he said, but I do know that whenever he shows a noir that doesn't fit the "standard" idea (usually held by newcomers to this sort of film) he seems to feel a need to 'splain why he has scheduled the title in Noir Alley.

By the way, ways in which I think one could argue that While the City Sleeps is a noir: there's a crime story (although it's not the main story), a few scenes of urban streets at night, complete with wet sidewalks and dark alleys (maybe not as many as some would like), a lot of cynical dialogue, and a lot of drinking. Everyone in the film, with the possible exception of Nancy, seems to see the world as a tough unfair place. Oh, and back to the drinking: I love that bar where they all hang out. I really like all those bars you see in old movies, the ones where you have to go down a few steps to get to them. Those kinds of bars seem to have been all over the place back then.

I recorded this one a long time ago for keeping and thought of it as a mystery movie.  Although I think the line between mystery, crime and Noir gets awfully blurred sometimes. I have noticed a few I would consider dramas are considered Noir by many.

I think the bar was in the basement of the building and they referred to it as the deli.  Or were those two separate things?  Anyway they could get to the bar quickly after work, drink all night and crawl back to their desks the next morning.

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
31 minutes ago, misswonderly3 said:

...I really like all those bars you see in old movies, the ones where you have to go down a few steps to get to them. Those kinds of bars seem to have been all over the place back then.

Oh, you mean those kind'a places where..ahem.."everybody knows your name"? ;)

  • Haha 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
45 minutes ago, Dargo said:

Oh, you mean those kind'a places where..ahem.."everybody knows your name"? ;)

Cheers !

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, TomJH said:

Swamp Water, a very good atmospheric film,  also shows Dana Andrews' versatility as an actor. It was Laura, I suspect, that typecast him into playing largely stoic characters on the screen, but in this Jean Renoir film, in portraying a young man rebelling against his stern authoritarian father, he displayed considerable sensitivity (just as he would as a performer soon afterward in The Ox Bow Incident, which has a particularly good, even heart wrenching, performance by him).

Andrews had a solid run of films during the 1940s. However, after Where the Sidewalks Ends in 1950 his best films were behind him, and he started to appear in a lot more mundane fare in which he didn't shine as impressively as during the best of his '40s films (including Best Years of Our Lives and Daisy Kenyon). Noir fans may appreciate Andrews more than others because of his strong contributions to the genre.

af55f10d1a4b47750f5fedbb4539a712.jpg

 

I'll have to add Swamp Water to my must-see list. Dana Andrews is also excellent in Night Song, a romantic drama where he plays a blind composer who's working on a piano concerto. This kind of movie doesn't appeal to everyone, but Dana Andrews and Merle Oberon were never better. Andrews is especially good at conveying self-loathing. The only actor who equals him at that is William Holden, who was also an alcoholic. Andrews had the opportunity to work with some good directors in the 1940s, and quite a few of those films have held up well.

However, when an actor tends to underplay, to internalize, to be stoic, as is often the case with Dana Andrews, once the actor loses his edge, as happens with alcoholism, this slips over into woodenness.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dana Andrews isn't bad in Transitional Noir Brainstorm either, it's worth a look.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, Dargo said:

You might have forgotten here Vautrin that during Eddie's out-tro he also "confessed" one of the reasons for his pick of this film was that his father was a good friend of fellow San Francisco newspaperman Charles Einstein, the writer of the novel The Bloody Spur upon which this Fritz Lang film was based.

Eddie went on to relay the story of family dinners which would occasionally include a very entertaining Einstein, and then also mentioned that Einstein was the older half-brother of comedian/actor/film maker Albert Brooks (real name, Albert Einstein) and comedian Bob Einstein (aka "Super Dave Osborne").

There was so much to unpack it's hard to remember everything. Yeah, daddy was a sportswriter.

For the umpteenth time, we get it. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, misswonderly3 said:

Well, I suspect Eddie is sensitive to criticism from viewers and his social media followers (since he seems to pay more attention to that then to this thread) about some of his picks not being "noir" enough. So he seems to feel a need to justify certain selections if they don't fit the somewhat narrow definition of noir many people hold.  What a lot of neophyte  noir fans don't seem to realize is that a lot of film noir movies actually have happy -or happyish- endings. This seems to annoy them, and I imagine they fill their Noir Alley Twitter comments with complaints about how some of the films Eddie chooses to show on Noir Alley aren't true noirs, probably citing all sorts of reasons that fit with their own definition of the term.

I know Eddie's mentioned something about this before, I forget what he said, but I do know that whenever he shows a noir that doesn't fit the "standard" idea (usually held by newcomers to this sort of film) he seems to feel a need to 'splain why he has scheduled the title in Noir Alley.

By the way, ways in which I think one could argue that While the City Sleeps is a noir: there's a crime story (although it's not the main story), a few scenes of urban streets at night, complete with wet sidewalks and dark alleys (maybe not as many as some would like), a lot of cynical dialogue, and a lot of drinking. Everyone in the film, with the possible exception of Nancy, seems to see the world as a tough unfair place. Oh, and back to the drinking: I love that bar where they all hang out. I really like all those bars you see in old movies, the ones where you have to go down a few steps to get to them. Those kinds of bars seem to have been all over the place back then.

I've never been bothered by the fact that a noir has a happy ending. I would say most

don't, but the few that do are okay. Of course sometimes the endings are ambiguous,

hard to classify as a happy or a sad ending. I would say WTCS is a noir, though a fairly

middling example of one with a lot of soap operish elements in it too. I certainly wouldn't

put it on my list of top noirs though it's entertaining enough. The good old

neighborhood bar where dad can go and get a little tipsy with no one the worse

for wear. Hopefully the steps are few, making them easier to navigate on the way out. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As a followup to what I had stated earlier about the versatility as an actor that Dana Andrews was displaying early in his career (before becoming a star and getting typecast in stoic portrayals), look at two performances of his from the same year, 1941.

Jean Renoir's Swamp Water and Howard Hawks' Ball of Fire. In the former he is the sensitive, rebellious son of a stern, domineering father while in the latter, a smaller role, he is a slick self confident wise guy gangster. He's quite convincing in two very contrasting roles, particularly shining in the Renoir film.

1.JPG

BallofFire194112117900-50-06.jpg?t=12105

His finest performance? Arguably Fred Derry in Best Years of Our Lives.

teresa-wright-dana-andrews-best-years-of

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/21/2019 at 12:22 PM, misswonderly3 said:

You haven't seen much of Dana Andrews' work? Then you haven't seen all that many noirs. Dana Andrews is generally considered one of the iconic noir protagonists.

You say that as if I am not worthy.  :P

I will certainly admit that I have not seen enough Noir and I claim no expertise.  For some reason the only thing that stands out where Andrews really impressed me was THE OX-BOW INCIDENT (1942).  It is true, though, I've only seen a handful of Andrew's films.  

And in my humble defense of not seeing enough Noir or Andrews films, I pretty much watch everything.  I am only lacking in the Noir category because there are FAR too many categories to cover.  The only reason I post so much here is because Noir Alley has become a TCM event I can usually fit into my schedule every week.  If I didn't have to work or be around other people I would likely spend 8 hours a day watching TCM and coming to these boards to talk about various films and genres.  But we can't always have what we wish for so I try to focus on this because I love the films so much as well as Eddie's comments . . . .  oh and I like all of you  . . . well most of you.  :P

(I'm not going to lie I literally had to fight the urge to laugh out loud after writing that.  Sometimes I amuse myself WAY too much.  I hope you all take that for the joke it was, except . . . LOL)

  • Like 1
  • Confused 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

New Members:

Register Here

Learn more about the new message boards:

FAQ

Having problems?

Contact Us