Barton_Keyes

Noir Alley

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Something just popped into my head; maybe I've thought this before but just never typed out a comment . . .

 

     Are there any color films that are considered 'film noir'?  I can't think of any, but I'm not a 'noir' expert of any sort. 

 

     ♣SHAMELESS PLUG♣:  The black-and-white 1999 movie "THE WOMAN CHASER" starring Patrick Warburton and directed by Robinson Devor.  It's set in early '60s Los Angeles with Warburton as a used car dealer who aspires to be a filmmaker.  Apparently there was a version of this movie released on cable in color, but I've only seen the VHS release which is in the proper B&W.  The movie has that 'look' that can be considered 'noirish'.  I've seen it thrice via the tape.  Perhaps some of y'all on here might like it as well.  I've gotta admit to having read the Leonard Maltin review of this movie in his guide and that's what motivated me to try and find it.  I'd never heard of "The Woman Chaser" until I was rifling through my Maltin guide one day over a decade ago and ran across the review.  He gave it  **½ out of ****.  It runs 90 minutes.      

This is David Putty from "Seinfeld", right? Funny guy.

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What made you think I was kidding, DownGoesFrazier?  I'm not a 'noir expert'.   

 

    I have no idea if there's such a thing as a color 'noirish' film?  That's why I asked!  

 

     Also, I never watched SEINFELD and I have no idea who 'David Putty' is supposed to be and no desire whatsoever to look it up.   

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What made you think I was kidding, DownGoesFrazier?  I'm not a 'noir expert'.   

 

    I have no idea if there's such a thing as a color 'noirish' film?  That's why I asked!  

 

     Also, I never watched SEINFELD and I have no idea who 'David Putty' is supposed to be and no desire whatsoever to look it up.   

I'm referring to Warburton, not you.

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Ah, ok.  So you're saying PATRICK WARBURTON played a character on "Seinfeld" named 'David Putty'.  Now I got it.    

 

    

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Something just popped into my head; maybe I've thought this before but just never typed out a comment . . .

 

     Are there any color films that are considered 'film noir'?  I can't think of any, but I'm not a 'noir' expert of any sort. 

 

     ♣SHAMELESS PLUG♣:  The black-and-white 1999 movie "THE WOMAN CHASER" starring Patrick Warburton and directed by Robinson Devor.  It's set in early '60s Los Angeles with Warburton as a used car dealer who aspires to be a filmmaker.  Apparently there was a version of this movie released on cable in color, but I've only seen the VHS release which is in the proper B&W.  The movie has that 'look' that can be considered 'noirish'.  I've seen it thrice via the tape.  Perhaps some of y'all on here might like it as well.  I've gotta admit to having read the Leonard Maltin review of this movie in his guide and that's what motivated me to try and find it.  I'd never heard of "The Woman Chaser" until I was rifling through my Maltin guide one day over a decade ago and ran across the review.  He gave it  **½ out of ****.  It runs 90 minutes.      

 

The question about color noirs is another age-old question \ debate among noir nuts like myself.   Those that tend to define noir from a visual perspective will often say 'NO'  while others,  like myself,  that define noir more from a character perspective will say 'YES'.  (note that I say 'more from' since the visual perspective is very important to noir).

 

Films like Leave Her To Heaven (Gene Tierney \ Cornel Wilde) and Niagara (Monroe \ Cotton) are two of the more well known 'classic' color noirs.        (by 'classic' I mean films released during the noir era which I say goes from 1940 - 1959).

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Haven't read the entire thread yet, but a justly famous color noir film, and not just because it was shot by the great cinematographer John Alton is "Slightly Scarlet" starring Arlene Dahl and based on the written work of James M. Cain.

It is lushly photographed in blazing color and rings true as a noir classic.

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Something just popped into my head; maybe I've thought this before but just never typed out a comment . . .

 

     Are there any color films that are considered 'film noir'?  I can't think of any, but I'm not a 'noir' expert of any sort. 

 

     ♣SHAMELESS PLUG♣:  The black-and-white 1999 movie "THE WOMAN CHASER" starring Patrick Warburton and directed by Robinson Devor.  It's set in early '60s Los Angeles with Warburton as a used car dealer who aspires to be a filmmaker.  Apparently there was a version of this movie released on cable in color, but I've only seen the VHS release which is in the proper B&W.  The movie has that 'look' that can be considered 'noirish'.  I've seen it thrice via the tape.  Perhaps some of y'all on here might like it as well.  I've gotta admit to having read the Leonard Maltin review of this movie in his guide and that's what motivated me to try and find it.  I'd never heard of "The Woman Chaser" until I was rifling through my Maltin guide one day over a decade ago and ran across the review.  He gave it  **½ out of ****.  It runs 90 minutes.      

Mr. Gorman, in film noir circles the author of "The Woman Chaser", namely Charles Willeford is considered one of the forgotten seminal figures in such fiction and has never really gotten his due except as a cult author for the few who have read his works. Thanks for bringing attention to the film made of TWC which deserves attention even if it is not the best adaptation.

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THE LETTER was released a year earlier than  THE MALTESE FALCON, and though not usually considered a true noir, it was also more noirish.

 

It feels as though what I wrote earlier today about the whole "which film noir is more authentically noir" contest didn't really make any kind of impression - at least on you, DownGoesFrazier. I mean, shirley you see what I'm trying to say about the noir contest thing?

 

By the way, I love The Letter, whatever movie genre you want to apply to it. One of Bette Davis' best  (which is saying something, since she was in so many excellent films.)

A film by any other genre name would smell as sweet.

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Something just popped into my head; maybe I've thought this before but just never typed out a comment . . .

 

     Are there any color films that are considered 'film noir'?  I can't think of any, but I'm not a 'noir' expert of any sort. 

      

 

Leave Her to Heaven, for one.

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Party Girl is considered another...

 

From the many and varied books written about Film Noir the often quoted time frame that these films fit into is usually 1941 to 1958 some occasionally stretch to 1959. Who came came up with this initially, and why is it so strictly adhered too? Anybody got a guess?

 

The more Noirs I watch the more I'm questioning this. I'm beginning to come around to a different thought, and that is that Classic American Film Noir stretched from say 1940 to 1968 (1968 being the last general use of B&W film in production) here is the breakdown by year of Black & White Noirs (there may be a few more to add in, in that 1959 to 1969 stretch I'm still finding more (the 1959 cut off possibly for major studio production but independent productions continued): 

 

1940 (5) 

1941 (11) 

1942 (5) 

1943 (5) 

1944 (18) 

1945 (22) 

1946 (42) 

1947 (53) 

1948 (43) 

1949 (52) 

1950 (57) 

1951 (39) 

1952 (26) 

1953 (21) 

1954 (26) 

1955 (20) 

1956 (19) 

1957 (12) 

1958 (7) 

1959 (7) 

1960 (2) 

1961 (3) 

1962 (8) 

1963 (1) 

1964 (5) 

1965 (7) 

1966 (2) 

1967 (2) 

1968 (1) 

 

1969 (1)

 

I'm also thinking now that the Color Film Noirs within this 1940-1968 time frame were the first Neo Noirs so that the two sub genres/styles actually overlap. The catalyst for this new alignment is when I read a quote about Neo Noir that said that if the filmmakers made a conscience decision to film in black and white when color was the norm then it was an artistic decision and not one of necessity for budget purposes, Same the other way if B&W was the norm for low budget B Noirs then it was an artistic decision to film it color. 

 

The color film Noir the first 30 years (again there maybe a few more in these early years but they as a whole really up ticked in the 1980s and 1990's): 

 

1945 (1) 

1947 (1) 

1948 (1) 

1953 (2) 

1955 (3) 

1956 (3) 

1958 (1) 

1966 (1) 

1967 (1) 

1969 (1) 

1970 (2) 

1971 (4) 

1972 (1) 

1973 (0) 

1974 (2)

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(the 1959 cut off possibly for major studio production but independent productions continued): 
 
1954 (26) 
1955 (20) 
1956 (19) 
1957 (12) 
1958 (7) 
1959 (7) 
1960 (2) 
 

 

Note that I say 1959 for two reasons;  the number of noirs was fairly steady until the drop off between 1959 and 1960 and the fact Odds Against Tomorrow was released in 1959 and feature two iconic noir performers in Ryan and Grahame, as well as Winters  (but yea this last reason shows how sentimental I am)!.   

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Something just popped into my head; maybe I've thought this before but just never typed out a comment . . .

 

     Are there any color films that are considered 'film noir'?  I can't think of any, but I'm not a 'noir' expert of any sort. 

 

 

Rear Window

Vertigo

Niagara

Leave Her to Heaven

Bad Day at Black Rock

 

These are the ones I know of and have seen. There are probably more.

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Note that I say 1959 for two reasons;  the number of noirs was fairly steady until the drop off between 1959 and 1960 and the fact Odds Against Tomorrow was released in 1959 and feature two iconic noir performers in Ryan and Grahame, as well as Winters  (but yea this last reason shows how sentimental I am)!.   

There was a drop but then a small uptick again in 1962. (But again) how many of those "B" and "C" independent films between 1959 and 1968 do we ever see on TCM or hear about? There could be more of them that premiered played for a week and then slipped into obscurity. 

 

To me two things were happening, a hole was punched at the bottom of the noir barrel with the slow shutdown of B production and a lot of that talent was pouring into TV Crime shows. At the top whiffs of noir style were evaporating off into psychological thrillers, suspense, horror, drama, syfy, exploitation, and "social message" type pictures. 

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There was a drop but then a small uptick again in 1962. (But again) how many of those "B" and "C" independent films between 1959 and 1968 do we ever see on TCM or hear about? There could be more of them that premiered played for a week and then slipped into obscurity. 

 

To me two things were happening, a hole was punched at the bottom of the noir barrel with the slow shutdown of B production and a lot of that talent was pouring into TV Crime shows. At the top whiffs of noir style were evaporating off into psychological thrillers, suspense, horror, drama, syfy, exploitation, and "social message" type pictures. 

Noteworthy is THE MONEY TRAP (1965). Watching it you'd think it was made in 1948. (A clue that it wasn't is the presence of the startlingly aged Rita Hayworth).

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There was a drop but then a small uptick again in 1962. (But again) how many of those "B" and "C" independent films between 1959 and 1968 do we ever see on TCM or hear about? There could be more of them that premiered played for a week and then slipped into obscurity. 

 

To me two things were happening, a hole was punched at the bottom of the noir barrel with the slow shutdown of B production and a lot of that talent was pouring into TV Crime shows. At the top whiffs of noir style were evaporating off into psychological thrillers, suspense, horror, drama, syfy, exploitation, and "social message" type pictures. 

 

 

Yes, that and the fact that less b&w films were being produced as the 60s progressed.

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There was a drop but then a small uptick again in 1962. (But again) how many of those "B" and "C" independent films between 1959 and 1968 do we ever see on TCM or hear about? There could be more of them that premiered played for a week and then slipped into obscurity. 

 

To me two things were happening, a hole was punched at the bottom of the noir barrel with the slow shutdown of B production and a lot of that talent was pouring into TV Crime shows. At the top whiffs of noir style were evaporating off into psychological thrillers, suspense, horror, drama, syfy, exploitation, and "social message" type pictures. 

 

Solid point that I define the 'end' of the 'classic' noir era as it relates to productions from the major studios.    One reason is that the source material I reference focus mostly on major studio releases with the exception of film by Ulmer and a handful of other non-major releases (as well as what TCM tends to show).

 

Of course there really is no 'start' or 'end' to any so called era,  but instead transitional periods and films.    E.g. Stranger on the Third Floor and The Beat Generation as examples of two transitional films.

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They must have picked Sunday morning as everyone who isn't noirish is out at church.

 

I could do a rant about Brute Force not being real noir but will spare everyone the details. They start off with an awesome one in Detour, but Brute Force is dreck by comparison.

"Noirish" Thank you for this word. I plan to add it to my vocabulary immediately.  I'm FINALLY being able to explain myself to my co-workers. Now, maybe they'll leave me alone. Oh, and I'm just revving my motor until they show Born to Kill and my crush-for-life, Lawrence Tierney. :wub: (Wish they had a more noirish emjoi for a love-crush.)

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"Noirish" Thank you for this word. I plan to add it to my vocabulary immediately.  I'm FINALLY being able to explain myself to my co-workers. Now, maybe they'll leave me alone. Oh, and I'm just revving my motor until they show Born to Kill and my crush-for-life, Lawrence Tierney. :wub: (Wish they had a more noirish emjoi for a love-crush.)

Crush for life? Crushing people was apparently a hobby of his.

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Crush for life? Crushing people was apparently a hobby of his.

 

Well many of us guys fall for femme fatales so why can't a gal fall for a bad-boy.    (but yea,  Tierney doesn't have many 'good-guy' roles in his movie or TV career).

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Well many of us guys fall for femme fatales so why can't a gal fall for a bad-boy.    (but yea,  Tierney doesn't have many 'good-guy' roles in his movie or TV career).

...or in real life.

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Well many of us guys fall for femme fatales so why can't a gal fall for a bad-boy.    (but yea,  Tierney doesn't have many 'good-guy' roles in his movie or TV career).

 

I was watching the Christmas-themed SIMPSONS episode titled MARGE BE NOT PROUD, it's the one where Bart gets caught shoplifting the BONESTORMER game from the local Try n' Save. The gruff security guard who catches him, and has a rather curious speech tic, was played- I discovered to my surprise watching the credits- by LAWRENCE TIERNEY.

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I was watching the Christmas-themed SIMPSONS episode titled MARGE BE NOT PROUD, it's the one where Bart gets caught shoplifting the BONESTORMER game from the local Try n' Save. The gruff security guard who catches him, and has a rather curious speech tic, was played- I discovered to my surprise watching the credits- by LAWRENCE TIERNEY.

Tierney also played Elaine's dad in the episode where Jerry gets the nice suede coat with the loud pink and white striped lining.  Elaine, Jerry and Elaine's dad are going to go out to dinner and it's raining outside.  Jerry decides to turn his coat inside out so that his suede doesn't get ruined in the rain.  Elaine's dad refuses to be seen with Jerry in the pink striped coat and Jerry reluctantly wears his new suede coat (right side out) in the rain and it's ruined.

 

BTW: My favorite part of "Marge Be Not Proud" is when Milhouse is trying to enter his name into the game (Thrillhouse) but he runs out of characters and the game says: "Welcome Thrillho." 

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Tierney also played Elaine's dad in the episode where Jerry gets the nice suede coat with the loud pink and white striped lining.  Elaine, Jerry and Elaine's dad are going to go out to dinner and it's raining outside.  Jerry decides to turn his coat inside out so that his suede doesn't get ruined in the rain.  Elaine's dad refuses to be seen with Jerry in the pink striped coat and Jerry reluctantly wears his new suede coat (right side out) in the rain and it's ruined.

 

 

Yes. Totally unrecognizable from his salad days (except for the voice)....

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Yes. Totally unrecognizable from his salad days (except for the voice)....

 

Yes.  Apparently he was supposed to have a reoccurring role on Seinfeld but he was so difficult to work with that it was a one-time guest appearance.

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