TheCid

TrumpCare

320 posts in this topic

Working and Middle class people think that Medicaid is only for the poor until they need long-term care and they have not purchased long-term healthcare insurance.

 

The only way a person who is not rich can get long-term care is to go into a nursing facility as a Medicaid patient and forfeit all their personal property.

 

Long-term care costs thousands of dollars per week and when this person, who has worked all their lives to amass something to leave to their children, is forced into that situation, then their children inherit nothing.

 

This Koch-type strategy prevents middle class inheritance and growth.

There are lots of different Medicaid programs.  Some are based on meeting an economic criteria (the "poor").   Others are based on paying a minimal fee to receive Medicaid services, such as in-home nursing care.

If you go into a nursing home under Medicaid, you would not be able to own a home unless you stated you planned to return to it after you recover.  You also can have some savings.

If your spouse remains in the home, you don't have to sell it.  Although when the spouse dies, the state (not the federal government) may ask for payment for services rendered.

Every state establishes its own policies and procedures based on general federal guidelines.

Need to remember that the purpose of Medicaid is to provide medical care for those who cannot afford it.  Not to protect the assets of the middle class or working class so children may inherit it.  This concept of middle class and working class parents leaving something to their children is relatively recent.

If the person "has worked all their lives to amass something to leave to their children," they should have given it to them well before they asked the taxpayers to support them in a nursing home.

Don't want to sound like a Trumpist or Ryanist or Republican, but we have to be reasonable about what the government (taxpayers) can and cannot provide.

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Prior to appointment to the OMB, Mulvaney was a Republican representative from S.C.  Super conservative and wants to drastically cut all federal expenditures.

As the Washington Post article shows, he completly fails to understand, Medicaid, ACA or Turmp/RyanCare.  And apparently he made no effort to discover that he was "misleading" people.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2017/03/15/mulvaneys-suggestion-that-a-person-making-one-fifth-his-pay-couldnt-afford-a-doctor/?utm_term=.ca28c4e2442b&wpisrc=nl_politics&wpmm=1

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Paul Ryan caves to rank and file on Trump/RyanCare.

 

www.washingtonpost.com/powerpost/speaker-paul-ryan-doubles-down-on-gop-health-care-plan-amid-opposition/2017/03/15/872c4f3c-0974-11e7-93dc-00f9bdd74ed1_story.html?utm_term=.c0eb4d8f0574&wpisrc=al_alert-COMBO-politics%252Bnation&wpmk=1

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This woman is a teacher!  No doubt teaching the next generation of Trump supporters...

 

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The hard right Republicans are already beginning to fold and accept Trump/RyanCare.

The latest version has multiple amendments to favor specific states or groups contrary to what Trump/RyanCare was supposed to be.

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It's on life support.  25 of the 60 members of the Freedom Caucus will vote against it.

Not to mention the opposition in the Senate.

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Thinking about the worst case scenario, will Trump lose patience and use an Executive order to repeal ACA to force the one's on Capital Hill to come up with a plan.  If one president can make ACA happen with the power of the pen.....

 

Hopefully he will keep his word not the pull the rug out from everyone's feet that needs it.  

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The ACA didn't happen with just the stroke of a pen, it was a

bill passed by Congress.

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Thinking about the worst case scenario, will Trump lose patience and use an Executive order to repeal ACA to force the one's on Capital Hill to come up with a plan.  If one president can make ACA happen with the power of the pen.....

 

Hopefully he will keep his word not the pull the rug out from everyone's feet that needs it.  

If I remember correctly, during the campaign Trump often said repealing and replacing ACA was going to happen on Day One.

We are into Days 60+ and the House has not even passed a bill yet, much less the Senate.

What will Trump do when it gets to his desk and he has to explain how he lied to the millions and millions of people who WILL lose their health coverage despite what he promised?  How will he explain that the costs of health care for millions and millions of others will go up?

Both the House and Senate passed ACA and then Pres. Obama signed it.  It was not an executive order.

Of course, the Republicans are being devious and using a reconciliation bill rather than a real bill to repeal the ACA.

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If I remember correctly, during the campaign Trump often said repealing and replacing ACA was going to happen on Day One.

We are into Days 60+ and the House has not even passed a bill yet, much less the Senate.

What will Trump do when it gets to his desk and he has to explain how he lied to the millions and millions of people who WILL lose their health coverage despite what he promised?  How will he explain that the costs of health care for millions and millions of others will go up?

Both the House and Senate passed ACA and then Pres. Obama signed it.  It was not an executive order.

Of course, the Republicans are being devious and using a reconciliation bill rather than a real bill to repeal the ACA.

 

He's doing his best to try to convince people that Obamacare is collapsing anyway and would not even be there next year.  Perhaps that may figure into his excuses?  People may start to wake up when they are on their death beds.  In the meantime don't bother the billionaires.

BTW I don't think Sanders wants to "soak" anyone.  He just doesn't think the tax system is equitable at the moment.  And is it?

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He's doing his best to try to convince people that Obamacare is collapsing anyway and would not even be there next year.  Perhaps that may figure into his excuses?  People may start to wake up when they are on their death beds.  In the meantime don't bother the billionaires.

BTW I don't think Sanders wants to "soak" anyone.  He just doesn't think the tax system is equitable at the moment.  And is it?

Absolutely not equitable.  However, when you look at everything Sanders promised to have the government provide during his campaign, you have to "soak the rich" as the saying used to go.

Saw a political cartoon:  Typical Trump voter standing in front of his dilapidated house with old pick-up on blocks.  Wearing tee shirt: "I voted for Trump and All I Got was this Lousy Hat."

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Republican Michigan governor RICK SNYDER is appealing to house republicans to forego passing the bill because it would greatly and detrimentally affect some health initiatives he initiated here. 

 

                                                          http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article/20170321/NEWS/170329957/snyder-warns-michigan-congressmen-of-gop-health-bills-impact

 

 

 

Sepiatone

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Absolutely not equitable.  However, when you look at everything Sanders promised to have the government provide during his campaign, you have to "soak the rich" as the saying used to go.

Saw a political cartoon:  Typical Trump voter standing in front of his dilapidated house with old pick-up on blocks.  Wearing tee shirt: "I voted for Trump and All I Got was this Lousy Hat."

 

Other countries do just what Sanders was proposing and still have very conservative governments that do not "soak" the rich.  Are you falling victim to the brainwashing that has been going on in your country for several generations?

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Other countries do just what Sanders was proposing and still have very conservative governments that do not "soak" the rich.  Are you falling victim to the brainwashing that has been going on in your country for several generations?

No.  But I have lived in my country for a couple of generations, maybe more depending on how you determine a generation.

The other countries do not provide the same services that the US does nor are they "organized" the way the US is.  I doubt any other country has a governmental system that reflects the US system of federal, state, county, city, school, special service, etc. taxing authorities.

In addition, those other countries have very high tax rates compared to the US in order to provide those services.

One example for Sanders is "free" college for everyone.

 

As I said, the very wealthy and the corporations can pay more in taxes, a lot more.  However, I do not see them providing near enough to fund the Sanders Plans.  One example of where corporations can do more is to collect sales taxes on online and mailorder purchases.  Currently these are pretty much exempt by US law.

While the purchaser would ultimately pay the taxes, it would level the playing field for the many retail businesses that are facing bankruptcy or closure.

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No.  But I have lived in my country for a couple of generations, maybe more depending on how you determine a generation.

The other countries do not provide the same services that the US does nor are they "organized" the way the US is.  I doubt any other country has a governmental system that reflects the US system of federal, state, county, city, school, special service, etc. taxing authorities.

In addition, those other countries have very high tax rates compared to the US in order to provide those services.

One example for Sanders is "free" college for everyone.

 

As I said, the very wealthy and the corporations can pay more in taxes, a lot more.  However, I do not see them providing near enough to fund the Sanders Plans.  One example of where corporations can do more is to collect sales taxes on online and mailorder purchases.  Currently these are pretty much exempt by US law.

While the purchaser would ultimately pay the taxes, it would level the playing field for the many retail businesses that are facing bankruptcy or closure.

 

This is the same argument for the National Sales Tax, everyone will pay the same regardless of what state one live in and covers all purchases.  It shouldn't be  be a replacement for the income tax but a sales tax that is fair.

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As I said, the very wealthy and the corporations can pay more in taxes, a lot more.  However, I do not see them providing near enough to fund the Sanders Plans.  One example of where corporations can do more is to collect sales taxes on online and mailorder purchases.  Currently these are pretty much exempt by US law.

While the purchaser would ultimately pay the taxes, it would level the playing field for the many retail businesses that are facing bankruptcy or closure.

 

I buy from Amazon all the time, and over the past 6 months they've been implementing sales tax charges, which fluctuate depending on the state where the item is sold or shipped from. I now pay sales taxes on approx. 75% of all purchases on Amazon.

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I buy from Amazon all the time, and over the past 6 months they've been implementing sales tax charges, which fluctuate depending on the state where the item is sold or shipped from. I now pay sales taxes on approx. 75% of all purchases on Amazon.

Glad to hear that.  Was under impression they still didn't collect sales taxes, even when thety had a facility in the state.

Why not on all your purchases?

Basing it on where shipped from or sold from tends to discriminate against the local businesses.  

I don't patronize Amazon so not up to date on their policies.  My understanding for S.C. is that you can voluntarily pay the "appropriate" S.C. sales tax when you file your state income tax.  

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This is the same argument for the National Sales Tax, everyone will pay the same regardless of what state one live in and covers all purchases.  It shouldn't be  be a replacement for the income tax but a sales tax that is fair.

Not germane to this thread, but what the heck, we can discuss it anyway.

A national sales tax is one answer, but the problem there is the states that do not have a sales tax or the ones where every city and county may have one in addition to the state.  For instance, my county has an additional 1% for the schools, which already receive the lion's share of property, income and sales taxes.  Along the coast they have an additional 1-2% for roads or other infrastructure.

Then you have states that exempt huge numbers of items from sales taxes.  S.C. is one.  S.C. also caps vehicle sales taxes at $300, even on $2 million airplanes or yachts, let alone a $100,000 car.

 

The current exclusion for mail order and online sales goes back many, many years.  Never was fair, but is getting much worse as online sales skyrocket.

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Glad to hear that.  Was under impression they still didn't collect sales taxes, even when thety had a facility in the state.

Why not on all your purchases?

Basing it on where shipped from or sold from tends to discriminate against the local businesses.  

I don't patronize Amazon so not up to date on their policies.  My understanding for S.C. is that you can voluntarily pay the "appropriate" S.C. sales tax when you file your state income tax.  

 

A lot of Amazon purchases are from local businesses, though. Every business can open up an Amazon "store front", so to speak, and sell their wares through the site. Amazon gets a piece of the action, but it's like renting mall space for your brick and mortar store. So if I have a used bookstore in Florida, I can sell my books in my store and through Amazon, and Amazon collects the appropriate tax rate for Florida sales. Now, items sold directly from Amazon are taxed based on the state of delivery. 5 states, Alaska, Delaware, Montana, New Hampshire and Oregon don't have sales taxes, so none is collected for sales from those states.

 

This is another issue where our country would do better with a unifying federal law rather than state laws. It also gets further complicated by some states having an income tax while others (like Florida) do not.

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A lot of Amazon purchases are from local businesses, though. Every business can open up an Amazon "store front", so to speak, and sell their wares through the site. Amazon gets a piece of the action, but it's like renting mall space for your brick and mortar store. So if I have a used bookstore in Florida, I can sell my books in my store and through Amazon, and Amazon collects the appropriate tax rate for Florida sales. Now, items sold directly from Amazon are taxed based on the state of delivery. 5 states, Alaska, Delaware, Montana, New Hampshire and Oregon don't have sales taxes, so none is collected for sales from those states.

 

This is another issue where our country would do better with a unifying federal law rather than state laws. It also gets further complicated by some states having an income tax while others (like Florida) do not.

Stand corrected.  Apparently Amazon is collecting taxes in most states, including S.C. as of 2016.   Not sure how the "point of sale" is actually determined for tax collecting purposes.  Apparently they may not collect local taxes though.

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This is the same argument for the National Sales Tax, everyone will pay the same regardless of what state one live in and covers all purchases.  It shouldn't be  be a replacement for the income tax but a sales tax that is fair.

Sales taxes tend to be regressive, while income taxes are supposed to be progressive.

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Back to Trumpcare.  Apparently the Republican dissidents in the House did not agree to Trump's offers in today's meeting.  Vote is tonight and 37 GOPers in House say they will vote against current bill.  Ryan can only lose 22 votes if all Dems vote against it.

Trump and Ryan have pretty much given in to the extremists, but apparently that is not enough.

If the bill passes the House, will it pass the Senate?  What kind of deals will Trump and Pence have to make to get enough GOP senators to vote for the bill in violation of the best interests of their constituents?  Will Bannon and Mercer agree to the deals?  

 

www.washingtonpost.com/powerpost/gop-health-care-plan-hangs-in-balance-as-house-leaders-push-for-thursday-floor-vote/2017/03/23/6e8bf05a-0fbd-11e7-9d5a-a83e627dc120_story.html?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-main_obamacare-805a:homepage/story&utm_term=.9ac2153d4fcb&wpisrc=al_alert-COMBO-politics%252Bnation&wpmk=1

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Back to Trumpcare.  Apparently the Republican dissidents in the House did not agree to Trump's offers in today's meeting.  Vote is tonight and 37 GOPers in House say they will vote against current bill.  Ryan can only lose 22 votes if all Dems vote against it.

Trump and Ryan have pretty much given in to the extremists, but apparently that is not enough.

If the bill passes the House, will it pass the Senate?  What kind of deals will Trump and Pence have to make to get enough GOP senators to vote for the bill in violation of the best interests of their constituents?  Will Bannon and Mercer agree to the deals?  

 

www.washingtonpost.com/powerpost/gop-health-care-plan-hangs-in-balance-as-house-leaders-push-for-thursday-floor-vote/2017/03/23/6e8bf05a-0fbd-11e7-9d5a-a83e627dc120_story.html?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-main_obamacare-805a:homepage/story&utm_term=.9ac2153d4fcb&wpisrc=al_alert-COMBO-politics%252Bnation&wpmk=1

Dealmaker, shmeelmaker.

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