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"Unforgiven" voted all-time best western by...

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That's actually integral to the success of the film. It works because of Eastwood's past. When people in the film recall the things that William Munny has done in the past, the audience is expected to recall prior Eastwood films, particularly the Man with No Name. The story is showing what would have become of such a man if he had lived to old age, what it would have done to him internally. 
 
When at the end, as you put it, "the Man with No Name" shows up, the Munny character has lost. Sure, he kills the "bad guys", but at what cost? To get to that place in his mind where he can do those things again, he loses his soul. That was what Eastwood was trying to say, that these violent men were not heroes to be cheered, but soulless monsters to be feared, and maybe even pitied.
 
This is not your father's Western. It's deconstructionist of deconstructionist Westerns. The Man with No Name films, and others of its ilk, turned the old "white-hat/black-hat" Western archetype on its head by showing moral ambivalence. Unforgiven was a study on the end results of such moral ambivalence.
 
All of that, plus the tremendous acting, excellent dialogue, authentic sets and costuming, and superlative cinematography, are why it's in my top 5 favorite Westerns.


Lawrence, I thought-(but did well that yr in predicting the Oscars0 that it's cinematography & script also shoulda' won)

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Lawrence, I thought-(but did well that yr in predicting the Oscars that it's cinematography & script also shoulda' won)

& my gut instinct when first going t it-(august of '92) knew Hackman would take home his 2nd Academy Award as Little Bill & on that type, though now here in same league, but corny fun & yet another superb performance by him is 1995's "Quick and the Dead" ($19m.))

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"UNFORGIVEN" VOTED ALL-TIME BEST WESTERN

 

Not a doubt in the world as far as I'm concerned.

 

An astonishingly good movie - and the most hypnotic western ever. 

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I forget the exact website right now, but was taken back a bit when the site voted on the top 50 or more all-time greatest westerns & at A #1 was Eastwood's tremendous 1992 Oscar sweeping "Unforgiven" though
 

 

It was the Micky Mouse club that voted. I guess they never saw anything before 1992.

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Not a doubt in the world as far as I'm concerned.

 

An astonishingly good movie - and the most hypnotic western ever. 

 

I don't know if I'd go THAT far,  but it DOES delve deeper into it's characters than most(if not all) westerns before it.

 

As far as Eastwood's "man with no nmae" character goes, there's NONE of that in the portrayal of William Munny.  "No Name" does what he does in those movies willingly and with no regrets about his present and past.  In UNFORGIVEN, Munny reluctantly does what he does and is FULL of regrets about his past and unsure of his present and future.

 

Someone here stated their favorite line in the movie is when Hackman, as "Little Bill" tells Eastwood's Munny, "I'll see you in HELL."  whereas I liked Munny's resignation filled "Yeah." in response.

 

 

Sepiatone

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As far as Eastwood's "man with no name" character goes, there's NONE of that in the portrayal of William Munny.  "No Name" does what he does in those movies willingly and with no regrets about his present and past.  In UNFORGIVEN, Munny reluctantly does what he does and is FULL of regrets about his past and unsure of his present and future.

 

Quite right.

 

This is not a reprise of the man with no name character. That character is a laconic anti-hero - an almost mythological figure - a killer, but with a heart of gold really, who will ultimately fight on the side of non-evil.

 

William Munny is no anti-hero. He was a very, very bad man. A man within whom dwells a monster - a monster that is unlocked from its cage by alcohol. He has done terrible things in the past. He has been so vicious that even his gang feared him. Because a woman - and she must have been quite a woman - managed to give him something that the alcohol could not provide - peace - he became sober and, ultimately, a family man.

 

But in his sobriety, the memories of his terrible acts of the past play on his mind - and his heart - constantly. His living wife would have been a salve to the inner torment of those memories, but with her death, they intrude more and more into his guilt-ridden existence. 

 

Nevertheless, to honor her love for him and to do the right thing by his children, he keeps the monster locked down. He doesn't drink and he talks out his torment to the one and only friend left in his life.

 

That the movie has the title "Unforgiven" is no accident. He knows that his past evil has damned him to this suffering, no matter what. Every breath is a struggle for him. Every day a fight to get through it loaded down with the guilt he lives with. If he didn't have children I really don't think he'd have a prayer of staying sober and non-evil.

 

The most revealing scene in the movie about all this - and there are many hints of it throughout - is when he has a brief moment of consciousness while fighting for his life against a killing fever. He speaks of seeing the devil -"he's got snakes eyes", he says. And he pleads, anguished, "Oh, Ned - don't tell nobody - don't tell my kids - none of the things I done". Even in that brief moment of consciousness, the guilt of his very being instantly returns. It's with him ever.

 

Throughout the film, he embodies in his carriage sorrow, regret, and a sad resolution of the weight he carries.

 

When he learns of the way Little Bill treated Ned - ultimately killing him - the change that comes over him is chilling. The anger that floods through him causes him - with immediateness -  to free the monster he's been suppressing all the years since his wife convinced him to. He takes the bottle from the Kid - the key - and deliberately opens the cage so that what must be done can be done. The scene still gives me goosebumps, though I've watched it 20 times now. The cold fury in William Munny is palpable - maybe the best - the most genuine - I've ever seen acted.

 

Whenever I'm changing channels around - and I stumble onto this movie - at any point in the movie - I have to stop. And I never ever stop watching till it ends.

 

And I haven't even mentioned the fascinating characters of Little Bill and English Bob who provide some stunningly riveting scenes in this unbelievably good movie.

 

I love a good western - and even some not so good ones - but I've never been so engrossed by one as with 'Unforgiven'.

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I love Westerns films just as much as I love Musicals.  I can't argue with such titles such as "Unforgiven", "High Noon", "The Searchers", "Shane", "Stagecoach", "Red River", "The  Westerner", "Shootout at the O.K. Corral", The Ford trilogy.  I love all of these movies and always try to watch them when they are scheduled on TCM.  I believe "Unforgiven" is a Top 5 Western film of all time.    

 

I know any "best of" list is just an excuse to start an argument.  Since we do not know what titles are on this particular "All Time Best Westerns" list I would assume that the following movie made it on the list but is rarely spoken of on the TCM Message Boards nor has it made its premier on TCM.  This particular movie was released one year after "Unforgiven".  The movie which I speak of is "Tombstone".  This movie is going to be, if not, a classic Western movie and should be in the top 15 of any "All Time Top 50 Westerns".

Westerns is perhaps my least favorite film genre. My interest in classic films focuses almost exclusively on Easterns..

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Westerns is perhaps my least favorite film genre.

Obviously too, Grammar wasn't your favorite elementary school subject.  ;)

 

Sepiatone

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I've always thought of UNFORGIVEN as a great film that was set in the west. It is a very real picture, not elemental as far as the usual trappings of "a western".  THE SEARCHERS is a great "western".  Just a personal observation.

 

As for votes and lists, no thanks.

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Whenever I'm changing channels around - and I stumble onto this movie - at any point in the movie - I have to stop. And I never ever stop watching till it ends.

 

 

 

Hmmmm..........

 

Well, so far as I know, that makes TWO of us!  B)

 

 

Sepiatone

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This is not a reprise of the man with no name character. 

 

I didn't literally mean he was a reprise of the Man With No Name character. What I meant was that Eastwood true to form would break down and kick a$$ as his many characters in films through the years have also save for Gran Torino which was a true break. 

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Obviously too, Grammar wasn't your favorite elementary school subject.  ;)

 

Sepiatone

I believe it should be "Westerns is " rather than "Westerns are". "Westerns" is the name  of a genre, which is a singular concept. Grammar police?

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Huh?   Unforgiven was terrible.  My dad was a western connoisseur, and I was raised on them.  He hated that movie, thought it was pretentious.  I had to agree.

 

His favorite was Lonesome Dove.  I am surprised that no one has mentioned that.  Ok, it's a "tv movie" - it doesn't matter.   THAT is the grandpappy of all of them.  Tommy Lee Jones flying thru town on that white/gray dapple horse.  The pigs following the wagon. Gus and the women.  

 

My favorite is actually Broken Trail.  There is nothing like Duvall - "You will not hurt these children. No sir."  

 

Other than that....

 

The Big Country

High Noon

Shane

Good Bad & Ugly

the Magnificent Seven

Stagecoach

True Grit  (Both, actually.)

Open Range

 

 

And I see a place on the list for The Hateful Eight as well.  

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I believe it should be "Westerns is " rather than "Westerns are". "Westerns" is the name  of a genre, which is a singular concept. Grammar police?

 

Would you say "Dramas is" or "Comedies is"?

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THE BIG COUNTRY is definitely among my top ten westerns, an intelligent William Wyler production, with an outstanding cast all rising to the occasion and one of the truly great western musical scores by Jerome Moross.

 

I have a feeling that many western buffs might be dismissive of this lengthy film primarily for two reasons:

 

1. its relative lack of action

 

2. its pacifist message

 

Here's a set shot I've never seen before. What a cast! This would be Alfonso Bedoya's last film, released after his death. You see him seated beside Peck in this shot.

 

24f5b464a07ff96801ad571c1904f06e.jpg

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I believe it should be "Westerns is " rather than "Westerns are". "Westerns" is the name  of a genre, which is a singular concept. Grammar police?

"Westerns" is a plural, and the genre is known as "Western".  Like in,

 

"What kind of movie IS this?"  and the answer WOULDN'T be, "It's a WESTERNS."

 

Or like the MUSIC genre isn't known as "Coutry/westerns"    :)

 

 

Sepiatone

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"Westerns" is a plural, and the genre is known as "Western".  Like in,

 

"What kind of movie IS this?"  and the answer WOULDN'T be, "It's a WESTERNS."

 

Or like the MUSIC genre isn't known as "Coutry/westerns"    :)

 

 

Sepiatone

I'm  aware that westerns is the plural of western, but that is not the point. Read my post again.

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First of all thanks for those that chimed-in on this one. Ironically, Hollywoods oldest film genre, is among the least respected & rewarded by the *AMPAS?

On that note whats your opinion of *"Cimarron" (RKO Radio)(l930-31)?

Personally I could never get threw it myself & never was interested in the 1960 remake

Here is another & poll from the British site (timeout.org) but I think it was just an "In House" editors poll & not the fans:

1st place "McCabe & Mrs Miller"
2. "Pat Garrett & Billy the Kid"-(NOTE: Reportedly was Peckinpah's own fav. of his)
3. "The Searchers"
4. "Winchester 73"
5th place "The 0utlaw Josey Wales"
6. "Dead Man" (Johnny Depp & among Mitchum's last)
7. "The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance"
8. "Heaven's Gate"
9. "Decision Before dawn" (l954)
& it's 10th choice "The Good, the Bad & the Ugly"

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THE BIG COUNTRY is definitely among my top ten westerns, an intelligent William Wyler production, with an outstanding cast all rising to the occasion and one of the truly great western musical scores by Jerome Moross.
 
I have a feeling that many western buffs might be dismissive of this lengthy film primarily for two reasons:
 
1. its relative lack of action
 
2. its pacifist message
 
Here's a set shot I've never seen before. What a cast! This would be Alfonso Bedoya's last film, released after his death. You see him seated beside Peck in this shot.
 
24f5b464a07ff96801ad571c1904f06e.jpg


& a near legendary score by Jerome Moross, but he lost that year to *D. Tiomkin for "The 0ld Man and the Sea"
& *Burl Ives was simply tremendous in his *Academy Award winning role

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I believe it should be "Westerns is " rather than "Westerns are". "Westerns" is the name  of a genre, which is a singular concept. Grammar police?


Don't know who this was directed at, but I just post things as I get them

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Westerns is perhaps my least favorite film genre. My interest in classic films focuses almost exclusively on Easterns..



There are a couple that also list the top 50

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What about 1970's "Dirty Dingus McGee?" That cult-film of sorts & "Johnny Concho' were Sinatra's only westerns

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Huh?   Unforgiven was terrible.  My dad was a western connoisseur, and I was raised on them.  He hated that movie, thought it was pretentious.  I had to agree.
 
His favorite was Lonesome Dove.  I am surprised that no one has mentioned that.  Ok, it's a "tv movie" - it doesn't matter.   THAT is the grandpappy of all of them.  Tommy Lee Jones flying thru town on that white/gray dapple horse.  The pigs following the wagon. Gus and the women.  
 
My favorite is actually Broken Trail.  There is nothing like Duvall - "You will not hurt these children. No sir."  
 
Other than that....
 
The Big Country
High Noon
Shane
Good Bad & Ugly
the Magnificent Seven
Stagecoach
True Grit  (Both, actually.)
Open Range
 
 
And I see a place on the list for The Hateful Eight as well. I reviewed/went to this epic, long & ultra bloody Tarentino film. & think it's a good western-(& better then his biggest $hit$ to date "Django Unchained")


& DUVALL is without a doubt among the finest actors "Alive!" My mom got to escort him don to his limo, back around 1980/81 at "Playboy Hotel & Casino" when she was security

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& DUVALL is without a doubt among the finest actors "Alive!" My mom got to escort him don to his limo, back around 1980/81 at "Playboy Hotel & Casino" when she was security


Unfortunately, "Broken Trail" (2005) was a tv work like "Lonesome Dove' so it's status is limited, but shouldn't be of course.

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& some places rank the tremendously done on every level 1955 "Bad Day at Black Rock" (m-G-M) I personally don't, it only takes place in the west.

& *Bogey thought his own "Sierra Madre" a western, but it's more of an adventure, I think so anyway

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