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Bogie56

Trump and North Korea

534 posts in this topic

1 hour ago, Princess of Tap said:

trump stole his dead brother's inheritance,  which should have gone to the brother's children.

 

Yeah that sounds like ol' Donny. I don't know about nukes, but both these guys could benefit

from a good diet and exercise program. Lots of blubber there.

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6 minutes ago, Princess of Tap said:

I guess you haven't heard how people are treated in North Korea.

I've lived in South Korea and I've heard first-hand some pretty ugly stories.

One has to start somewhere, change is not going to happen overnight but it may not be in my lifetime. :(

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7 minutes ago, Vautrin said:

Yeah, now China is a freedom loving, democratic country. China is the new bully on the

block, throwing its weight around, just as the U.S. was in the 20th century. What goes

around comes around. 

China tries to bully Vietnam now and in the past, look what happened in 1979, got more than a black eye.

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3 hours ago, jakeem said:

 

3 hours ago, jakeem said:

Kaitlan Collins Retweeted Kaitlan Collins

So neither the troops there nor the South Koreans were aware that Trump had agreed with Kim Jong Un that he would stop the U.S.-South Korean joint military exercises?

 

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The Art of the Bad Deal:

From The Economist:

Trump meets Kim
Summit for nothing20180616_blp519.jpg

 
"The meeting today between Donald Trump and Kim Jong Un was “fantastic” and “very positive”, according to the American president. But the rhetoric did not match the reality. The two men signed a rather woolly declaration resolving “to build a lasting and stable peace regime on the Korean Peninsula”. Mr Kim will have been thrilled by the summit—it was something the North Koreans wanted badly.  Mr. Trump seems to have got little in exchange."
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Trump couldn't even get from Kim a promise of what we've already been getting from Iran:

From the WAPO:

"THE SINGAPORE summit was, without question, a triumph for Kim Jong Un and his North Korean regime. A dictator who has ordered the murder of his own family members, and who oversees a gulag comparable to those of Hitler and Stalin, was able to parade on the global stage as a legitimate statesman, praised by the president of the United States as “very talented” and worthy of trust. President Trump offered Mr. Kim a major concession, the suspension of U.S. military exercises with South Korea, and spoke of his wish to withdraw U.S. troops from the country. Mr. Kim, meanwhile, did not commit to the “complete, verifiable and irreversible” denuclearization the United States has demanded — nor to any other change in his regime’s criminal behavior."

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16 hours ago, hamradio said:

China tries to bully Vietnam now and in the past, look what happened in 1979, got more than a black eye.

I don't know if they went into Vietnam in full force, kind of doubt it. But China is the new power

doing what new powers usually do, expanding their power. 

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Mr. President, we have a signing gap. While KJU sped through signing his name, DJT

lumbered along falling behind the Kimster. This looks like a lot of pro forma diplomacy.

Sign some agreement that doesn't say very much, but gives the two sides something

to brag about. I'm sure Trump will soon be saying it's the greatest agreement in the

history of mankind.

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Trump got out "negotiated" - again.  For the fourth time, NK "committed" to eliminating nuclear weapons - sometime in the future.  US abandoned military exercises with no corresponding reduction in military or other activity by NK.  The most reviled leader in the world got to meet face to face with the President of the United States of America and US president came to Asia for the meeting.   China will now have reason to once again support NK and other nations will be able to ignore whatever sanctions are left.

Score:  NK - 4, US- 0.5

What did US get?  A meeting with NK leader to discuss denuclearization. 

All of this should have been done at much lower levels for a very long period of time and with definitive, substantive agreements before the meeting.

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14 minutes ago, TheCid said:

Trump got out "negotiated" - again.  For the fourth time, NK "committed" to eliminating nuclear weapons - sometime in the future.  US abandoned military exercises with no corresponding reduction in military or other activity by NK.  The most reviled leader in the world got to meet face to face with the President of the United States of America and US president came to Asia for the meeting.   China will now have reason to once again support NK and other nations will be able to ignore whatever sanctions are left.

Score:  NK - 4, US- 0.5

What did US get?  A meeting with NK leader to discuss denuclearization. 

All of this should have been done at much lower levels for a very long period of time and with definitive, substantive agreements before the meeting.

The deal was originally about destroying the test site which was done under supervision from foreign media weeks ago. NK made it very clear they were not going to denuclearize and even so, Trump said there were more meetings to come. It is highly unlikely they were ever going to denuclearize for a hostile foreign power.

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Trump, Kim, and the Boys in the Camps

"....T here are all sorts of things you have to do in foreign policy, to get along in the world. To lessen tensions and prevent war. You have to hold your nose and deal with beasts.

 

"...... Trump said, “His country does love him. His people, you see the fervor. They have a great fervor.” Oh, yes, the fervor. Trump may want to visit the camps, or talk with Ji Seong-ho, to see how fervent is this love. ...

Trump said, “I learned he’s a very talented man. I also learned he loves his country very much.”

I beg to differ. I also beg to differ with Trump about Xi Jinping, the boss of the Chinese Communist Party, and therefore the boss of all of China. Xi has more power than any other Chinese leader since Mao Zedong. The camps are full. Xi is presiding over the most oppressive period in China since the Cultural Revolution.

Last year, Trump praised him effusively. He did it on the very day that China’s most prominent political prisoner, Liu Xiaobo, a recipient of the Nobel Peace Prize, died, finally succumbing to his torments. Trump said of Xi, “He’s a friend of mine. I have great respect for him. We’ve gotten to know each other very well. A great leader. He’s a very talented man. I think he’s a very good man. He loves China, I can tell you. He loves China. He wants to do what’s right for China.”

 

But you don’t have to tell outrageous and insulting lies, and you don’t have to break faith with American values, and human values. If you’re president, the whole world hears you —

Bukovsky, the great Soviet dissident, said something like this: “Free World governments should do what they have to do — but as they go about their business, they should occasionally pause to ask, ‘How will it look to the boys in the camps?’”

A lot of Americans care very much about the NFL and the national anthem.

But standing up for American values means other things too, such as not perfuming one of the most disgusting and murderous tyrannies ever known to man."

https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/trump-kim-and-the-boys-in-the-camps/

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Russia Praises Donald Trump's Meeting With Kim Jong Un,

Plans to Be Involved in North Korea Peace Plan

......Russian officials said they would like to see the six-party talks get back on track.

"As of now we cannot but welcome the fact that an important step forward has been made. Devil is in the detail, of course, and it is necessary to understand the specificities. But as we understand the impetus has been provided," Russia’s Deputy Foreign Minister Sergei Ryabkov told reporters Tuesday about Trump’s meeting.  

"We, together with Chinese friends, together with other participants of what used to be called six-lateral talks, are looking forward to getting this format relevant again, and will continue working towards a result,” Ryabkov added.

....Trump called the agreement with North Korea “very comprehensive,” although some analysts have criticized the agreement for being too vague. All of the points in the agreement stress that the U.S. and North Korea will work toward the complete denuclearization of the Korean peninsula, and will commit to building peace and stability. The agreement does not mention any other country.

Nevertheless, experts have said that both China and Russia will need to play a role in promoting peace in the region, since both countries have outsized economic influence with North Korea.

Kim met with Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov in the week leading up to the summit. 

http://www.newsweek.com/russia-praises-donald-trumps-meeting-kim-jong-un-plans-be-involved-north-korea-973043?utm_source=Twitter&utm_campaign=NewsweekTwitter&utm_medium=Social

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Million dollar question is regarding north Korea, who's really in power?  Kim is not immune from a coup / overthrow.

Keeping Kim: How North Korea's Regime Stays in Power

https://www.belfercenter.org/publication/keeping-kim-how-north-koreas-regime-stays-power

 

'Kim Jong-un has no real power', says North Korean defector

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/kim-jong-un-has-no-real-power-says-north-korean-defector-9342635.html

 

What future does the one's in real power want?

NISI20171212_0013639370_web.jpg

Kim-Jong-Un-Generals-Palace-Of-The-Sun-R

 

I can't find that photo of Kim Jong un CRINGING at the line of generals standing behind him.  One had a face that was COLD!:o This was right after his father died and seems to be putting to some type of test.

 

Can you actually do that??

be4402734d78fe8346b2959873d081d8bb78740f

 

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The Biggest Winner at the U.S.-North Korea Summit: China

".......Trump raised the previously taboo prospect of withdrawing some of America’s nearly thirty thousand troops in South Korea. “I want to get our soldiers out. I want to bring our soldiers back home,” he said. That may have been improvisation. Hours earlier, Defense Secretary James Mattis had told reporters, “I don’t believe” that troops were up for negotiation. ....

Nobody greeted the news from Singapore with more delight than China. For years, Chinese officials have urged Trump to freeze military exercises in South Korea, which Beijing regards as a threatening gesture in its neighborhood. Shortly after the announcement, the Global Times, a nationalist state newspaper in Beijing, hailed Trump’s move in an editorial headlined “End of ‘War Games’ Will Be a Big Step Forward for Peninsula.”

Elizabeth Economy, a China specialist at the Council on Foreign Relations, told me, “The Chinese are breathing a deep sigh of relief. They got what they most wanted.” She added, “And, best of all, it came out of President Trump’s mouth. The Chinese didn’t even have to rely on Kim Jong Un to do their bidding.” ......

https://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/the-biggest-winner-at-the-us-north-korea-summit-china?mbid=social_twitter

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Kim Jong-un hailed victor in 'meeting of century' by North Korean media

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jun/13/kim-jong-un-north-korea-summit-trump-visit-kcna

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I'm sure if they promise to put a statue of the Donald in Pyongyang then there will be no need for sanctions or de-nuclearization.

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQs4UcIViPxA7yNq376nTq

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Trump's even hinting at pulling troops out of SK is a BIG win for China, Russia and North Korea.  Where will he station them?  Japan?  Not likely.  Guam?

Pulling the troops out will only encourage China to push harder on controlling the South China Sea and influencing all the countries around it.  Now that they have a permanent dictator, they will be able to do it

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https://www.rt.com/news/429519-kim-trump-summit-results/

Denuclearize first, talk sanctions after: What historic US-N. Korea summit promised to the world

The “epochal” first-ever summit between the US and North Korea has ended with eloquent vows to “leave the past behind” and “make the world a safer place.” RT looks at highlights of both leaders’ pledges.

US President Donald Trump and North Korean leader Kim Jong-un met at the Capella Hotel on Sentosa Island in Singapore on Tuesday. The preparations for the high-level meeting involved many ups and downs, and it was even almost cancelled due to a change of heart by Trump.

After the first face-to-face encounter and handshakes in the morning, the leaders proceeded to closed-door talks. The whole negotiations process required Trump to stay up for more than 24 consecutive hours, as he later revealed at a media briefing. Several of those hours were spent discussing the details of the joint “comprehensive” agreement with Kim. 

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https://www.rt.com/usa/429527-pence-korea-drills-continue/

Drills or no drills? Confusion over VP Pence’s Korea comments after Trump promises halt to war games

Confusion reigns on Capitol Hill after one senator claimed US Vice President Mike Pence said military exercises in South Korea will continue, contrary to statements made by President Donald Trump in Singapore.

After meeting with North Korean leader Kim Jong-un on Monday, Trump announced the US will be “stopping the war games” on the Korean peninsula, describing them as expensive and “provocative.”

At a lunch with Republican senators on Tuesday, however, Pence said that exercises will continue - according to Senator Cory Gardner (R-Colorado), a frequent critic of Trump.

 

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14 hours ago, jakeem said:

Spencer Ackerman Retweeted Donald J. Trump

There isn’t even so much as a declared North Korean inventory of its nuclear or missile infrastructure, let alone an inspections mechanism to verify that, let alone dismantlement, let alone removal of nuclear material, let alone ongoing inspections to ensure irreversibility.

 

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I can't get over this picture:

trump-salutes-nk-general-1528988957.jpg?

Even the North Koreans can't believe Trump saluted them.

Now I know we hear this a lot, but just imagine if Obama had done this. :blink:

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