Princess of Tap

Jim Crow Confederate Monuments Go Down in America

557 posts in this topic

That's because it is Gen. John Hunt Morgan.

www.civilwar.org/learn/biographies/john-hunt-morgan

 

Hey,  he was a prisoner of the Yankees.   It was my understanding prisoners of war can't be heroes.    

But serious I just read this: Morgan High School in McConnelsville, Ohio, near the site where Morgan crossed the Muskingum River, named their mascot the Raiders in honor of Morgan's campaign into southeast Ohio.

 

Now Ohio was a Union state,  right?   Why would the people in Ohio honor a Confederate that raided their state and killed their people? 

 

I admit I really don't get why people in these type of states (central states where the population was very divided) decide to honor who they honor and why.   

 

This is why I feel it should be 100% up to the 'locals' who they wish to honor or not.  

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Movie on El Rey which should give some the chills, battling the Confederate undead. :lol:

 

image0003.jpg

 

abraham_lincoln_vs_zombies_zombies.jpg

 

 

"Abraham Lincoln vs Zombies" (2012)

 

MV5BMTA0NDY2MzQxODheQTJeQWpwZ15BbWU3MDU3

 

 

Just when I though Abe slaying vampires was stupid.

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45]ny06RNTT_bigger.jpgABC NewsVerified account @ABC

 

 

More

 

Before questioning the removal of statues of Confederate leaders, Pres. Trump supported taking down Confederate flag

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/questioning-statue-removal-trump-supported-taking-confederate-flag/story?id=49250797&cid=social_twitter_abcn

franklin-graham-take-down-the-confederat

 

Why recycle someone else's post that is over two months old without a comment on explanation?

 

For those not recognizing it, that is the Confederate flag that was next to the Confederate monument on the state house grounds in Columbia, SC.

It was removed a couple of years ago. The monument is still there.

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With all this talk of Confederate soldier statues continuing to stand or not, some might be interested in this article from The Atlantic about one of the most sainted names of the Civil War, Robert E. Lee.

 

 

 

The Myth of the Kindly General Lee

 

The legend of the Confederate leader’s heroism and decency is based in the fiction of a person who never existed.

 

Lee was a slaveowner—his own views on slavery were explicated in an 1856 letter that it often misquoted to give the impression that Lee was some kind of an abolitionist. In the letter, he describes slavery as “a moral & political evil,” but goes on to explain that:

 

I think it however a greater evil to the white man than to the black race, & while my feelings are strongly enlisted in behalf of the latter, my sympathies are more strong for the former. The blacks are immeasurably better off here than in Africa, morally, socially & physically. The painful discipline they are undergoing, is necessary for their instruction as a race, & I hope will prepare & lead them to better things. How long their subjugation may be necessary is known & ordered by a wise Merciful Providence. Their emancipation will sooner result from the mild & melting influence of Christianity, than the storms & tempests of fiery Controversy.

 

The white supremacists who have protested on Lee’s behalf are not betraying his legacy. In fact, they have every reason to admire him. Lee, whose devotion to white supremacy outshone his loyalty to his country, is the embodiment of everything they stand for. Tribe and race over country is the core of white nationalism, and racists can embrace Lee in good conscience.

The question is why anyone else would.

 

 

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/06/the-myth-of-the-kindly-general-lee/529038/

 

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3 hours ago, jakeem said:

John Kelly says Clinton should be investigated, calls Robert E. Lee "honorable," won't apologize to Rep. Wilson

https://www.axios.com/john-kelly-hillary-clinton-uranium-one-2504132737.html?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=organic

DNd6fBPWsAAlQWZ.jpg

And there's no surprise here: telling lies about a black US Congresswoman, no respect for the Widow of a black US military hero and now promotion of white supremacy and the Confederacy--

If it Waddles like a duck and it quacks like a duck and it looks like a duck, then it's probably a duck. LOL

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17 minutes ago, jakeem said:

Ken Burns told me Robert E Lee killed more Americans than Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin, Ho Chi Minh, Saddam Hussein & Osama bin Laden combined.

Now that's from the Civil War--

But after the Civil War,  after Reconstruction, with all of the promotion and terror of Jim Crow by the Ku Klux Klan, the southern citizen councils and other racist Southern organizations, by using these Confederate statues and paraphernalia of Robert E Lee and others,

I wonder how many black Americans were Lynched,

as a result of this so-called Robert E Lee Confederate/ Jim Crow " heritage"?

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On 10/20/2017 at 6:55 PM, jamesjazzguitar said:

 

Hey,  he was a prisoner of the Yankees.   It was my understanding prisoners of war can't be heroes.    

But serious I just read this: Morgan High School in McConnelsville, Ohio, near the site where Morgan crossed the Muskingum River, named their mascot the Raiders in honor of Morgan's campaign into southeast Ohio.

 

Now Ohio was a Union state,  right?   Why would the people in Ohio honor a Confederate that raided their state and killed their people? 

 

I admit I really don't get why people in these type of states (central states where the population was very divided) decide to honor who they honor and why.   

 

This is why I feel it should be 100% up to the 'locals' who they wish to honor or not.  

Just found this post.  One of the ironies of America is that we tend to think of everyone in certain states as having the same social or political thoughts.  Southern Ohio is far different from the rest of the state as the last election proved.  Many states are like this.  Quite imagine that northern and central CA are very dissimilar to southern CA.  After all one of the perceived most liberal states in the nation has elected Ronald Reagan, Richard Nixon, and a slew of super conservative Congressmen.

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26 minutes ago, Princess of Tap said:

Now that's from the Civil War--

But after the Civil War,  after Reconstruction, with all of the promotion and terror of Jim Crow by the Ku Klux Klan, the southern citizen councils and other racist Southern organizations, by using these Confederate statues and paraphernalia of Robert E Lee and others,

I wonder how many black Americans were Lynched,

as a result of this so-called Robert E Lee Confederate/ Jim Crow " heritage"?

Can't find where jakeem posted this (not unusal for POT's posts).  Regardless, while I admire Ken Burns, he is like any other person with his own biases and preconceived ideas.

I find it hard to believe that Lee "killed more Americans than Hitler, Ho Chi Min, et. al."   First of all, Lee did not command the Confederate Army until very late in the war when it was losing on all sides. In fact, he did not really command anything until a couple of years into the war.   He was an engineer advising on how to build fortifications. He only commanded the Army of Northern Virginia when he did get command of a combat force.  Also, how many of these killed Americans were actually Confederate soldiers?  How many Americans did Grant kill?  Not to mention McClellan and the other Union commanders.

Not to mention that many of the Union soldiers who died opposing Lee's soldiers died due to the incompetence of their commanders.  While Grant succeeded, much of this was due to his killing thousands of his own soldiers in a war of attrition against Lee.

Lee had nothing to do with the "Jim Crow heritage."  In fact, he was dead by the time the statues went up and the Jim Crow laws were passed, not to mention the lynchings.

And what the hell is "paraphernalia of Robert E. Lee and others?"

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I wonder how many people on here know that the American Revolution was a sort of Civil War. How many monuments do we got honoring these guys.

Brigadier General Benedict Arnold - we know his story.

Brigadier General Sir John Johnson - massacred thousands on the frontier Johnson led a part of his corps, along with Indian Department Rangers and hundreds of Native allies led by Joseph Brant in the bloody ambush of New York Militia under the command of General Nicholas Herkimer.   Johnson led major raids into New York in 1780 and 1781, which helped recruit a 2nd Battalion for his corps.  In 1782, he was appointed brigadier general and superintendent general over the Six Nations Indians.


Brigadier General Cortland Skinner - This New Jersey general’s main contribution to the British war effort was an excellent network of intelligence gatherers providing information on troop movements and political doings in New Jersey and elsewhere. 

 
Colonel Edmund Fanning - This corps fought at the Siege of Rhode Island in 1778, Tryon’s Raids on Connecticut in 1779, and Hobkirk’s Hill, South Carolina in 1781.


Colonel Beverley Robinson - best known for his clandestine exploits during the war. He assisted Major John Andre in persuading Benedict Arnold to defect.   In a small world, Arnold used Robinson’s house at West Point, New York as his headquarters.


Lieutenant Colonel Thomas Brown - In August 1775, the patriots captured Brown and subjected him to torture.  He endured partial scalping and burned legs and feet.  Having lost two toes to the burning, he was derisively called Burnt Foot Brown by patriots.

After escaping to British Florida, Brown raised a regiment known as the East Florida Rangers, which was used to repel raids into the province and raid into Georgia.  Reorganized as a Provincial unit, the King’s (Carolina) Rangers in June, 1779, the corps fought at Savannah later that year and successfully defended Augusta in September of the following year. Here Brown hanged 13 prisoners taken during the fighting, who were still prisoners on parole to the British.

Lieutenant Colonel John Butler - led an assault on Forty Fort in the Wyoming Valley, Pennsylvania.  In the battle’s aftermath, Native Americans under his command, who were often hard to control, probably tortured captured Patriots.


Captain Joseph Brant - American patriots feared Brant for his destructive raids and ambushes.  In 1777, he led the Native American forces during the Battle of Oriskany.  In 1778, he led loyalists and Native Americans on attacks at Cobleskill, Andrustown and Cherry Valley, New York. Brant was also present along with Lt. Colonel Butler at the Battle of Newtown. 

 

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On 11/2/2017 at 8:53 PM, cigarjoe said:

I wonder how many people on here know that the American Revolution was a sort of Civil War. How many monuments do we got honoring these guys.

Brigadier General Benedict Arnold - we know his story.

Brigadier General Sir John Johnson - massacred thousands on the frontier Johnson led a part of his corps, along with Indian Department Rangers and hundreds of Native allies led by Joseph Brant in the bloody ambush of New York Militia under the command of General Nicholas Herkimer.   Johnson led major raids into New York in 1780 and 1781, which helped recruit a 2nd Battalion for his corps.  In 1782, he was appointed brigadier general and superintendent general over the Six Nations Indians.


Brigadier General Cortland Skinner - This New Jersey general’s main contribution to the British war effort was an excellent network of intelligence gatherers providing information on troop movements and political doings in New Jersey and elsewhere. 

 
Colonel Edmund Fanning - This corps fought at the Siege of Rhode Island in 1778, Tryon’s Raids on Connecticut in 1779, and Hobkirk’s Hill, South Carolina in 1781.


Colonel Beverley Robinson - best known for his clandestine exploits during the war. He assisted Major John Andre in persuading Benedict Arnold to defect.   In a small world, Arnold used Robinson’s house at West Point, New York as his headquarters.


Lieutenant Colonel Thomas Brown - In August 1775, the patriots captured Brown and subjected him to torture.  He endured partial scalping and burned legs and feet.  Having lost two toes to the burning, he was derisively called Burnt Foot Brown by patriots.

After escaping to British Florida, Brown raised a regiment known as the East Florida Rangers, which was used to repel raids into the province and raid into Georgia.  Reorganized as a Provincial unit, the King’s (Carolina) Rangers in June, 1779, the corps fought at Savannah later that year and successfully defended Augusta in September of the following year. Here Brown hanged 13 prisoners taken during the fighting, who were still prisoners on parole to the British.

Lieutenant Colonel John Butler - led an assault on Forty Fort in the Wyoming Valley, Pennsylvania.  In the battle’s aftermath, Native Americans under his command, who were often hard to control, probably tortured captured Patriots.


Captain Joseph Brant - American patriots feared Brant for his destructive raids and ambushes.  In 1777, he led the Native American forces during the Battle of Oriskany.  In 1778, he led loyalists and Native Americans on attacks at Cobleskill, Andrustown and Cherry Valley, New York. Brant was also present along with Lt. Colonel Butler at the Battle of Newtown. 

 

Re:Brigadier General Benedict Arnold - we know his story.

 

Actually who were committing treason?

If this be treason, make the most of it.....Patrick Henry.

 

How many knows the true story?

https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/1u8mvr/what_is_the_truth_regarding_benedict_arnold_why/

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It was a civil war of neighbors against neighbors Loyalists against Rebels, with estimates of a third staying in the middle neutral, and it wasn't pretty, and there was no real hard core cohesive geographic center for either group. Much like a civil war between the altright and the looney left would play out geographically. 

My point still is we in the U.S. don't have a bunch of loyalist statues all around, they lost, and many of them left for sanctuary in Canada, especially what is now Ontario.

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1 hour ago, cigarjoe said:

It was a civil war of neighbors against neighbors Loyalists against Rebels, with estimates of a third staying in the middle neutral, and it wasn't pretty, and there was no real hard core cohesive geographic center for either group. Much like a civil war between the altright and the looney left would play out geographically. 

My point still is we in the U.S. don't have a bunch of loyalist statues all around, they lost, and many of them left for sanctuary in Canada, especially what is now Ontario.

When I was in college I joined the Sons of the American Revolution (male version of DAR).  I traced my lineage back to a farmer who sold provisions to the Continental Army in 1781.  Five years after the war began.  Often wondered what he did before and after that.

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5 hours ago, jakeem said:

Crowd cheers as Confederate statues are removed from Memphis parks http://nbcnews.to/2kU7ogZ 

Image result for confederate statues in memphis

In the city where Rev Dr Martin Luther King  Jr was assassinated nearly 50 years ago, two statues of two key Confederate /Jim Crow   symbols of white supremacy come down-- the first and last president of the Confederacy and an early leader of the Klu Klux Klan.

You just have to wonder: why did it take so long?

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42 minutes ago, Princess of Tap said:

In the city where Rev Dr Martin Luther King  Jr was assassinated nearly 50 years ago, two statues of two key Confederate /Jim Crow   symbols of white supremacy come down-- the first and last president of the Confederacy and an early leader of the Klu Klux Klan.

You just have to wonder: why did it take so long?

Trump wasn't the President?    

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10 hours ago, jakeem said:

#SAVE US

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And the states' right that they were most interested in defending

was the right to own slaves. Two reasons for the price of one.

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6 hours ago, jakeem said:

Many anti-racist activists and politicians across the U.S. have been fighting to take down public memorials to racist oppression — and nowhere is the battle harder, or uglier, than in Mississippi

https://www.salon.com/2018/04/06/mississippi-rising-activists-step-up-fight-against-the-nations-last-confederate-state-flag/

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" The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down "

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There is a plaque commemorating Robert E. Lee and the Dixie Highway in downtown

Asheville that was vandalized over Easter weekend. Just some scratches. Looks

like they are trying to give Bobby Lee the "death" of a thousand cuts. Maybe we

need someone from Durham. They know how to do the job on Confederate memorials. :)

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On 11/1/2017 at 6:27 PM, TheCid said:

Can't find where jakeem posted this (not unusal for POT's posts).  Regardless, while I admire Ken Burns, he is like any other person with his own biases and preconceived ideas.

I find it hard to believe that Lee "killed more Americans than Hitler, Ho Chi Min, et. al."   First of all, Lee did not command the Confederate Army until very late in the war when it was losing on all sides. In fact, he did not really command anything until a couple of years into the war.   He was an engineer advising on how to build fortifications. He only commanded the Army of Northern Virginia when he did get command of a combat force.  Also, how many of these killed Americans were actually Confederate soldiers?  How many Americans did Grant kill?  Not to mention McClellan and the other Union commanders.

Not to mention that many of the Union soldiers who died opposing Lee's soldiers died due to the incompetence of their commanders.  While Grant succeeded, much of this was due to his killing thousands of his own soldiers in a war of attrition against Lee.

Lee had nothing to do with the "Jim Crow heritage."  In fact, he was dead by the time the statues went up and the Jim Crow laws were passed, not to mention the lynchings.

And what the hell is "paraphernalia of Robert E. Lee and others?"

sherman must've killed a whole lot of americans in Georgia.

:lol:

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