Princess of Tap

Jim Crow Confederate Monuments Go Down in America

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Now, YOU'RE the one talking about two completely different things.

 

Fighting for independence from foreign rule and tyranny is different from  secession from you OWN GOVERNMENT.  And I never said anything about the British rejecting anything.  But then again, when we defeated the British, THEY didn't become part of OUR nation.  And also.....how many statues of  GENERAL CORNWALLIS do you see in any town squares in the U.S.?  How many places in this country is the UNION JACK flown over any state capitols or city halls?

 

Hell.  I don't think even anyone in GERMANY displays a NAZI flag!

 

 

Sepiatone

 

 

There ya go again with your "rich Judeo-Christian tradition" nonsense.  There never WAS a  Judeo-Christian "tradition" as many different faiths and religious doctrines were followed by the people who came here and helped make this nation great.  And WHICH so-called "Judeo-Christian" morality are you TALKING about that relates to the topic at hand?

 

Slavery?

 

The rememberance and REVERENCE of slavery?

 

Misogyny?

 

Look, as much as I agree that the civil war and it's major players are a part of this nation's history,it's what these people represented OUTSIDE the issue of slavery that I take issue with in regards to erecting statues of them or flying the "stars and bars".

 

The Confederacy went to war with what was basically the United States of America and it's constitution.

 

They selected their OWN president and formed their own legislature.

 

Formed their own military.

 

Printed their own sort of constituton and created their own currency.

 

And in thus declaring war on the Union, actually declared war on The United States and became this country's ENEMY.

 

Now, we DON'T go around hoisting NAZI flags with the tepid excuse of "it's part of our HISTORY", do we?

 

Or display statues of Yamamoto or Mussolini EITHER, right?

 

So, WHAT makes those old SOUTHERN traitors so special?

 

And so why NOT put up a statues of NIKITA KRUSHCHEV or JOSEPH STALIN as well?

 

 

Sepiatone

Read your first post of Apr 25 and then read your second one of Apr 27.

The actions the Southern states took are exactly the same as the ones the Americans took against Great Britain.  The 13 American Colonies were separate colonies and part of the British Empire, and therefore an integral part of Great Britain.

Your Apr 25 posts lists exactly the same things that the American Colonies did in 1776 and later.  Remember that in 1776, there was no United States of America; there were 13 colonies that banded together under the Articles of Confederation to essentially secede from Great Britain.

Your last four statements from Apr 25 are totally irrelevant as they are about foreign countries with whom the US has been at war or in conflict.

People tend to forget that the New England states threatened to secede from the Union well before the Civil War.  Secession was even being considered in the 1830's over tarrifs.

At the time, secession and nullification of federal laws were considered as legal rights of the states by many.  The states had voluntarily agreed to join the Union and therefore they could voluntarily leave the Union if they so desired, at least as far as the original 13 were concerned.

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Those remarks attributed to Wilson have an interesting history.

 

When the film played in Atlanta in 1916, The Atlanta Constitution (December 5, 1916) published a short notice which read:

 

“History written with lightning” was the phrase coined by a certain high executive at Washington after witnessing “The Birth of a Nation” at a private showing at his home. It was a matter of keen disappointment to Mr. Griffith’s associates when the producer, for ethical reasons, forbade the use of the executive’s name in any advertising.

 

If Wilson were the "high executive," this would seem to clinch that he made those remarks. Yet, it seems that 20-30 years passed before the remarks were commonly attributed to Wilson. I wonder what happened in the interim

SCSU--

 

After Wilson had the stroke, he spent a lot of time just watching movies in the White House. I can imagine while his wife was in the Oval Office, he was "occupied" watching Lillian Gish.

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Just one I can think of, Sepia.

 

The Hawaiian state flag here...

 

nunst016.gif

 

(...although unfortunately and contrary to some, Hawaii's official state song ISN'T "C'mon I wanna lay ya"...but wouldn't it be cool if it WAS?!) ;)

 

Hawaii doesn't count. Remember, Attorney General Jefferson Beauregard Sessions III said he was "amazed that a judge sitting on an island in the Pacific can issue an order that stops the president of the United States from what appears to be clearly his statutory and constitutional power."

 

I guess Obama wasn't a U.S. citizen after all.

 

Sessions_Voting_Fraud_01305.jpg-26867.jp

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A park in Newport Beach CA. was renamed yesterday to John Wayne Park  (it was called Ensign View Park after Horace Ensign).

 

Opponents cited statements made by Wayne in a 1971 Playboy magazine,  including: "I believe in white supremacy, until the blacks are educated to a point of responsibility.  I don't believe in giving authority and positions of leadership and judgment to irresponsible people".

 

 

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A park in Newport Beach CA. was renamed yesterday to John Wayne Park  (it was called Ensign View Park after Horace Ensign).

 

Opponents cited statements made by Wayne in a 1971 Playboy magazine,  including: "I believe in white supremacy, until the blacks are educated to a point of responsibility.  I don't believe in giving authority and positions of leadership and judgment to irresponsible people".

 

And who is the airport in Orange County named for?

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A park in Newport Beach CA. was renamed yesterday to John Wayne Park  (it was called Ensign View Park after Horace Ensign).

 

Opponents cited statements made by Wayne in a 1971 Playboy magazine,  including: "I believe in white supremacy, until the blacks are educated to a point of responsibility.  I don't believe in giving authority and positions of leadership and judgment to irresponsible people".

Wayne was responding to a question about leftist professor Angela Davis. But I don't excuse what he said.

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Wayne was responding to a question about leftist professor Angela Davis. But I don't excuse what he said.

 

As I can recall, Angela Davis is assuredly better educated than the average white person in the United States. What was that all about?

 

And if whether he was talking about one person or not - - no one person is representing the white race, so why should any one person be representing the black race.

 

That's called stereotyping and I just don't agree with that.

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And who is the airport in Orange County named for?

 

Just for future reference here jakeem, the following are the three things I always refuse to say or call something:

 

I STILL call the airport with the three letter IATA designation code of SNA..."Orange County Airport".

 

I STILL call the airport with the three letter IATA designation code of DCA..."National Airport".

 

(...AND, being the good agnostic that I am, whenever I recite our country's Pledge of Allegiance, I NEVER say that dumb part those presumptuous freakin' idiots added to it in 1954..."under God"!!!) ;)

 

LOL

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(...AND, being the good agnostic that I am, whenever I say our country's Pledge of Allegiance, I NEVER say that dumb part those freakin' idiots added to it in 1954..."under God"!!!) 

 

LOL

 

You still say the Pledge of Allegiance? Where? Or rather, why? I didn't say the Pledge even when I was a kid in school. But I was/am an anti-authoritarian punk.  B)

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You still say the Pledge of Allegiance? Where? Or rather, why? I didn't say the Pledge even when I was kid in school. But I was/am an anti-authoritarian punk.  B)

 

Hmmmm...ya know Lawrence, come to THINK of it, it HAS been the proverbial month o' Sundays since I've recited that baby, but I DO recall doin' this SOMEWHERE awhile back anyway.

 

Saaaay, maybe it was before that Trump rally I attended last September??? ;)

 

(...while of course in search of intelligent life there...as you would expect, there was little of that to be found there, btw)

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You still say the Pledge of Allegiance? Where? Or rather, why? I didn't say the Pledge even when I was a kid in school. But I was/am an anti-authoritarian punk.  B)

Most civic groups in the South and almost all governmental entities such as school boards, city councils, county councils, etc. begin meetings with the Pledge if a flag is in the room.  They ALL begin the meetings with a prayer, generally a Christian one.

Yes, it is technically illegal to say a Christian prayer, but they do it anyway.

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As I can recall, Angela Davis is assuredly better educated than the average white person in the United States. What was that all about?

 

And if whether he was talking about one person or not - - no one person is representing the white race, so why should any one person be representing the black race.

 

That's called stereotyping and I just don't agree with that.

Martin Luther King Day

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Martin Luther King Day

 

Yes, but Harriet Tubman and Frederick Douglass are getting their due. Tubman will replace Andrew Jackson on the front of the $20 bill and may be remembered with a statue in the U.S. Capitol. Plus, monuments in her honor are popping up in various cities.

 

As for Douglass, even the president has noticed that he has "done an amazing job and is getting recognized more and more..."

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like most normal white american children of the 1960s, we recited the pledge of allegiance at the beginning of our elementary school day.

 

to my child's mind, it was just a long series of syllables, but that's how we learned it. :D

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like most normal white american children of the 1960s, we recited the pledge of allegiance at the beginning of our elementary school day.

 

to my child's mind, it was just a long series of syllables, but that's how we learned it. :D

 

So ND. Then at what age do you think you actually began to understand the meanings of things you originally learned only by rote?

 

Wait. Never mind.

 

(...I've seemed to have forgotten who I'm talking to here)

 

LOL

 

;)

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Most civic groups in the South and almost all governmental entities such as school boards, city councils, county councils, etc. begin meetings with the Pledge if a flag is in the room.  They ALL begin the meetings with a prayer, generally a Christian one.

Yes, it is technically illegal to say a Christian prayer, but they do it anyway.

 

I was born, raised, and continue to live in the South, and at the few school board and county commission meetings I've attended, we neither recited the pledge nor held prayer. That's not to say that doesn't occur elsewhere, just not everywhere in the South. And we're not exactly a bastion of leftist progressives. Quite the militant opposite. 

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Up here in "De NAWTH" I've only attended a couple or so school board meetings, and we didn't do any of that either.  I only know of the pledge being said in elementary school.  By Jr. high and high school we only had to stand for the Anthem.  Which, as I  recall WASN'T "Dixie".  ;)

 

 

Now, I'm not an overly( or even a mildly) zealous religious person, you could say I'm "stubbornly agnostic", but I've never had any objection to the words "Under God" being added to the orignal pledge.  It's no big deal.  Not to me, anyway.

 

But I DO have some reservations about how in schools, it's MANDATORY to have kids stand up for the National Anthem in what's supposed to be the land of the FREE.

 

But my speaking out about it is mostly facetious.  ;)

 

 

Sepiatone

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You still say the Pledge of Allegiance? Where? Or rather, why? I didn't say the Pledge even when I was a kid in school. But I was/am an anti-authoritarian punk.  B)

 

Same here.   After I learned more about slavery and racism I refused because of the 'justice for all' part and of course the added crap of 'under God'.    Taken to the Principle office.   My dad was called and he chewed them out big time.   When I got home he just laughed and said 'you're a trouble maker,  but if that if how you feel,  I'll support you'.    This was the best father \ son bonding moment we ever had.

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Same here. After I learned more about slavery and racism I refused because of the 'justice for all' part and of course the added crap of 'under God'. Taken to the Principle office. My dad was called and he chewed them out big time. When I got home he just laughed and said 'you're a trouble maker, but if that if how you feel, I'll support you'. This was the best father \ son bonding moment we ever had.

 

James--

 

Senator Bob Dole used to come for assemblies during the Vietnam war. We had to say the Pledge of Allegiance with him and I would always get to that certain part and I would say:

 

"and liberty and justice for some of us"--people would look around at me and frown and stare. There were so many people, I was never called out, but I used to get a good feeling just saying it that way. LOL

 

BTW--In elementary public school we always said the Pledge of Allegiance and the Lord's Prayer. After Mrs. Murray's lawsuit we stopped saying the Lord's Prayer, but it had gone on for years. Only one student had problems with both and so she didn't say either because she was a Jehovah's Witness.

 

I remember her so well because she couldn't join our Girl Scout Troop either because we were a little "paramilitary" organization that wore uniforms, saluted the flag before every meeting and cookie sale and performed taps at the end of the meeting. Those were the days.

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Martin Luther King Day

 

Cid--

 

 

Martin Luther King picked Gandhi to emulate because even though Gandhi was leading the Indian people to Freedom, Gandhi was an example of a humanitarian leader for the world.

 

 

Martin Luther King didn't just represent black people in America--Martin Luther King represented all people because he was fighting for all humans to have dignity and respect and freedom not just in America but in the world.

 

Martin Luther King is a great humanitarian because so many other people have been able to take his message and get freedom and dignity for others-- for example in the United States it would be the Women's Liberation Movement as well as the Gay Rights movement.

 

But the people that Martin Luther King was really fighting for were the white people in the United States because they truly needed to have their heads freed.

 

I believe had it not been for Martin Luther King we would have had a serious second Civil War and in that way he really did lead all Americans into something more positive. What I'm trying to say is he was leading all Americans to a more realistic agreement with the Constitution.

 

Martin Luther King's fight was not just for black people--it was for Justice for all Americans.

 

I can remember when he came out against the Vietnam War. There were so many white commentators like Mike Wallace on CBS saying he had no right to talk about the Vietnam War because he was just a black man, leading black people in the Civil Rights Movement.

 

That's when he explained, to those who would listen, that he was fighting for Humanity and in my opinion it was primarily the Humanity of white institutional racisim of America at that time.

 

When Martin Luther King was assassinated he was on his way to the Poor People's March--not the poor black people's March, or the poor Native American peoples March, or the poor white people's March - - but the Poor People's March.

 

Critics and naysayers have always tried to limit Dr. King's role in American history by stereotyping him as just another black leader--

 

but this man has had such an impact on the world and Humanity that I would never just put him in a box and say he only represented a small segment of people--even though those were the people that he loved very much and he put his life on the line for year after year --until he eventually lost it in a sniper lynching.

 

So the only thing I could end up saying is that Martin Luther King is a great American hero and a great American.

 

I can't do bold like you can, but if I could, I would just bold one word to describe Dr. King-- not the word black, but the word--

 

AMERICAN.

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Cid--

 

 

Martin Luther King picked Gandhi to emulate because even though Gandhi was leading the Indian people to Freedom, Gandhi was an example of a humanitarian leader for the world.

 

 

Martin Luther King didn't just represent black people in America--Martin Luther King represented all people because he was fighting for all humans to have dignity and respect and freedom not just in America but in the world.

 

Martin Luther King is a great humanitarian because so many other people have been able to take his message and get freedom and dignity for others-- for example in the United States it would be the Women's Liberation Movement as well as the Gay Rights movement.

 

But the people that Martin Luther King was really fighting for were the white people in the United States because they truly needed to have their heads freed.

 

I believe had it not been for Martin Luther King we would have had a serious second Civil War and in that way he really did lead all Americans into something more positive. What I'm trying to say is he was leading all Americans to a more realistic agreement with the Constitution.

 

Martin Luther King's fight was not just for black people--it was for Justice for all Americans.

 

I can remember when he came out against the Vietnam War. There were so many white commentators like Mike Wallace on CBS saying he had no right to talk about the Vietnam War because he was just a black man, leading black people in the Civil Rights Movement.

 

That's when he explained, to those who would listen, that he was fighting for Humanity and in my opinion it was primarily the Humanity of white institutional racisim of America at that time.

 

When Martin Luther King was assassinated he was on his way to the Poor People's March--not the poor black people's March, or the poor Native American peoples March, or the poor white people's March - - but the Poor People's March.

 

Critics and naysayers have always tried to limit Dr. King's role in American history by stereotyping him as just another black leader--

 

but this man has had such an impact on the world and Humanity that I would never just put him in a box and say he only represented a small segment of people--even though those were the people that he loved very much and he put his life on the line for year after year --until he eventually lost it in a sniper lynching.

 

So the only thing I could end up saying is that Martin Luther King is a great American hero and a great American.

 

I can't do bold like you can, but if I could, I would just bold one word to describe Dr. King-- not the word black, but the word--

 

AMERICAN.

You misunderstood my reply, which is why I bolded the pertinent section of your comment.  See below where I copied it.  No problem with Martin Luther King nor am I disparaging his contributions to making America a better place.

But, you implied that no person should be selected to represent all people of a certain group.  However, that is exactly what we did when Martin Luther King Day was created.  There is no other national holiday in the US for a single individual, with the exception of Christ.  Columbus Day is a federal holiday, but not observed by many cities, schools and states.  Then again a single individual was put forth to represent all Italians-or at least that is what it appears to have become.

 

Princess Said:  "And if whether he was talking about one person or not - - no one person is representing the white race, so why should any one person be representing the black race."

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You misunderstood my reply, which is why I bolded the pertinent section of your comment.  See below where I copied it.  No problem with Martin Luther King nor am I disparaging his contributions to making America a better place.

But, you implied that no person should be selected to represent all people of a certain group.  However, that is exactly what we did when Martin Luther King Day was created.  There is no other national holiday in the US for a single individual, with the exception of Christ.  Columbus Day is a federal holiday, but not observed by many cities, schools and states.  Then again a single individual was put forth to represent all Italians-or at least that is what it appears to have become.

 

Princess Said:  "And if whether he was talking about one person or not - - no one person is representing the white race, so why should any one person be representing the black race."

 

The real point should be that there is no such thing as the white race or the black race.   These are just made-up social constructs.   E.g. If King was replaced by a black person whose parents were from India,  I don't think decedents of slaves in the USA would say that his person represented their 'race'.

 

I was hiking yesterday and two women (who looked Latino) passed me;  they were talking about each others boyfriends.   They were very specific by saying 'his parents are from El Salvador'  and 'oh,  my boyfriend's mom is Mexican'.   "what about his father',  'oh,  he is white'.

 

I found it funny that they used such a generic term as 'white' instead of something like German, Italian, etc...   If this common in these communities?

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I found it funny that they used such a generic term as 'white' instead of something like German, Italian, etc...   If this common in these communities?

 

It seems that within racial groups, people differentiate between ethnic backgrounds. That's very prevalent among Spanish-speakers, I've found, with Mexicans, Cubans, Puerto Ricans, and the various Central and South American groups very vocal about differences. White groups often differentiated between Italian, German, Polish, Irish, etc., as well as religious affiliation. Black groups do as well, but since many black Americans don't know their ancestral origins, they categorize by skin tone.

 

You also have the opposite, where members of a racial group will refer to another in a specific, often incorrect way, like calling all East Asians "Chinese people", or calling all Latinos "Mexicans", which is a favorite around here. 

 

I received one of those Ancestry DNA kits for Christmas last year, and I was hoping for some interesting results. Instead, I just learned that I was 6 kinds of Whitey. The Native American blood that my family touted in the past actually makes up less than 1% of my DNA. I'm primarily Irish (58%), followed by Iberian peninsula (most likely "Black Irish", from survivors of the Spanish Armada), and then other Western European (primarily France), and small amounts of Scandinavian (probably from some Viking raiders).

 

I think it would be interesting for more people to get this done, and maybe learn some eye-opening facts about their make-up that they don't know. 

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It seems that within racial groups, people differentiate between ethnic backgrounds. That's very prevalent among Spanish-speakers, I've found, with Mexicans, Cubans, Puerto Ricans, and the various Central and South American groups very vocal about differences. White groups often differentiated between Italian, German, Polish, Irish, etc., as well as religious affiliation. Black groups do as well, but since many black Americans don't know their ancestral origins, they categorize by skin tone.

 

You also have the opposite, where members of a racial group will refer to another in a specific, often incorrect way, like calling all East Asians "Chinese people", or calling all Latinos "Mexicans", which is a favorite around here. 

 

I received one of those Ancestry DNA kits for Christmas last year, and I was hoping for some interesting results. Instead, I just learned that I was 6 kinds of Whitey. The Native American blood that my family touted in the past actually makes up less than 1% of my DNA. I'm primarily Irish (58%), followed by Iberian peninsula (most likely "Black Irish", from survivors of the Spanish Armada), and then other Western European (primarily France), and small amounts of Scandinavian (probably from some Viking raiders).

 

I think it would be interesting for more people to get this done, and maybe learn some eye-opening facts about their make-up that they don't know. 

I just find it hard to believe that DNA testing of a person in US today with several generations here could be tested to see if DNA matches a certain country or ethnic group, such as British, Spanish, Irish, Native American, etc.

Especially considering you would need to compare your DNA to the DNA of your ancestors before they came to America.  For me, that is before the Revolutionary War.  So, where would they get 1700's English DNA to compare to mine?  Do the current English have same DNA as 1700 English?  Do current Native Americans have same DNA as 1700's Native Americans.

Too confusing and for me, too meaningless.

I did Google it and the results are often very suspicious for accuracy.  Inside Edition did some testing on triplets and quadruplets and different companies.

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It seems that within racial groups, people differentiate between ethnic backgrounds. That's very prevalent among Spanish-speakers, I've found, with Mexicans, Cubans, Puerto Ricans, and the various Central and South American groups very vocal about differences. White groups often differentiated between Italian, German, Polish, Irish, etc., as well as religious affiliation. Black groups do as well, but since many black Americans don't know their ancestral origins, they categorize by skin tone.

 

You also have the opposite, where members of a racial group will refer to another in a specific, often incorrect way, like calling all East Asians "Chinese people", or calling all Latinos "Mexicans", which is a favorite around here. 

 

I received one of those Ancestry DNA kits for Christmas last year, and I was hoping for some interesting results. Instead, I just learned that I was 6 kinds of Whitey. The Native American blood that my family touted in the past actually makes up less than 1% of my DNA. I'm primarily Irish (58%), followed by Iberian peninsula (most likely "Black Irish", from survivors of the Spanish Armada), and then other Western European (primarily France), and small amounts of Scandinavian (probably from some Viking raiders).

 

I think it would be interesting for more people to get this done, and maybe learn some eye-opening facts about their make-up that they don't know. 

 

Yes,  what you outline is what I have often experienced.   When I married my Italian wife and her parents came to visit us here in the USA,  for the first few days when they saw someone that was Asian they would say 'hey, there are some of your people'.    While that didn't bug me I told them please don't say that to my 100% Japanese mom.    She does not consider Chinese and especially Koreans (who she really hates), as 'her people'!

 

I really have no interest in learning about my ancestors expect if there would be a medical benefit but it could prove useful for some people that have bigoted views of others (like my mom).    E.g. I would LOVE for my mom to find out she was 10% Korean.  

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