Princess of Tap

Jim Crow Confederate Monuments Go Down in America

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Yes, what you outline is what I have often experienced. When I married my Italian wife and her parents came to visit us here in the USA, for the first few days when they saw someone that was Asian they would say 'hey, there are one of your people'. While that didn't bug me I told them please don't say that to my 100% Japanese mom. She does not consider Chinese and especially Koreans (who she really hates), as 'her people'!

 

I really have no interest in learning about my ancestors expect if there would be a medical benefit but it could prove useful for some people that have bigoted views of others (like my mom). E.g. I would LOVE for my mom to find out she was 10% Korean.

James--

 

When I was working in South Korea I asked some colleagues about whether or not East Asians could tell each other apart in terms of nationality. They assured me that they couldn't, but at the same time they really hated Japanese people because of the history of their country.

 

Then foolishly, I asked them what they thought of Chinese people and they said they hated those people even more.

 

I got a lot of negativity from some teachers because I would visit Japan on a regular basis. They said that I should be more loyal to them and only vacation in Korean spas because I was working for the Koreans. LOL

 

Could be I got with a group of hateful people, but actually the school where I worked had an even mixture of Christian and Buddhist teachers. I actually worked directly with a Buddhist, a Catholic, and a Presbyterian. We all got along just fine and had a lot of fun.

 

Then when I was working in provencial France I came across a Japanese teacher who was married to a French man. And she did a Japanese cultural/ language course that I took.

 

There was a an Asian foreign girl in the course and the teacher made a big deal about the fact that the girl was Korean.

 

Again I asked the stupid question of what part of Korea she was from, at that point the Japanese teacher said that the girl was born in Japan, but she was still Korean and would never be Japanese.

 

So, I simply gave up and turn to the guy next to me who was a French national of Algerian Arab descent and a Muslim. He and I became friends and we had some good conversations.

 

As a result, I never learned much Japanese there because the teacher turned me off.

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Although I now have a pretty good understanding that biologically(adopted as an infant in Los Angeles CA here, remember folks) my "old world" ancestors immigrated to British Columbia Canada two to three generations ago and with my biological mother's family hailing from the southwestern region of England, and with my biological father's family hailing from the Tuscany region of Italy, I STILL prefer to think of myself as a good ol' 100% All-American MUTT!

 

(...or I suppose "mongrel" if you're inclined to use that term instead...I've never had a problem with people usin' that canine affiliation in any descriptive manner in this regard when it comes to me...probably because the older I get, the more I seem to like, appreciate and respect DOGS than I do PEOPLE!) 

 

;)

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James--

 

When I was working in South Korea I asked some colleagues about whether or not East Asians could tell each other apart in terms of nationality. They assured me that they couldn't, but at the same time they really hated Japanese people because of the history of their country.

 

Then foolishly, I asked them what they thought of Chinese people and they said they hated those people even more.

 

I got a lot of negativity from some teachers because I would visit Japan on a regular basis. They said that I should be more loyal to them and only vacation in Korean spas because I was working for the Koreans. LOL

 

Could be I got with a group of hateful people, but actually the school where I worked had an even mixture of Christian and Buddhist teachers. I actually worked directly with a Buddhist, a Catholic, and a Presbyterian. We all got along just fine and had a lot of fun.

 

Then when I was working in provencial France I came across a Japanese teacher who was married to a French man. And she did a Japanese cultural/ language course that I took.

 

There was a an Asian foreign girl in the course and the teacher made a big deal about the fact that the girl was Korean.

 

Again I asked the stupid question of what part of Korea she was from, at that point the Japanese teacher said that the girl was born in Japan, but she was still Korean and would never be Japanese.

 

So, I simply gave up and turn to the guy next to me who was a French national of Algerian Arab descent and a Muslim. He and I became friends and we had some good conversations.

 

As a result, I never learned much Japanese there because the teacher turned me off.

 

What I found interesting in all that PRINCESS was the parallel  to something my wife told me long ago.....

 

She's MEXICAN by national heritage, and she once said when growing up she noticed most the other Mexicans in her "'hood"  had a severe disdain for Puerto Ricans.   "We felt about THEM like a lot of white people felt about BLACK people." she said.   To be succinct----

 

We "Whettoes" have the "N-word" as a slur, while Mexicans had the "S-Word".  ;)

 

 

In another light----and I told this before-----

 

When my Grandmother was 14 or so, my Great Grandfather gave her a box of food staples to take to the new family that moved into the community at a farm down the road as a sort of "welcome".  Just some butter, eggs and stuff, and a small jar of his homemade horseradish.  When she got there, she discovered they were an Italian immigrant family, and they had the house already festooned with what SHE thought was typical Italian decor.  Flowers, sausages and other decorations on the walls, red checkered tablecloths and wine bottles with candles in the necks on the table and such.  Like she imagined a farmhouse in Italy would look like.

 

When she got back home she told my great Grandfather all about it and asked him, "How come WE don't have anything around the house that lets people know we're Polish?" 

 

My Great Grandfather led her to the front door, pointed out to the road and said, "See the NAME on the mailbox?  KUROWSKI?  How much MORE Polish do you want to be?"  When she again described the new neighbor's house he told her, "If I wanted my house to look like a farmhouse in Poland, I'd have STAYED in Poland!"  and walked off shaking his head back and forth, throwing up his hands while shrugging his shoulders.

 

My family's had that attitude ever since.  ;)

 

 

Sepiatone

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What I found interesting in all that PRINCESS was the parallel  to something my wife told me long ago.....

 

She's MEXICAN by national heritage, and she once said when growing up she noticed most the other Mexicans in her "'hood"  had a severe disdain for Puerto Ricans.   "We felt about THEM like a lot of white people felt about BLACK people." she said.   To be succinct----

 

We "Whettoes" have the "N-word" as a slur, while Mexicans had the "S-Word".  ;)

 

 

In another light----and I told this before-----

 

When my Grandmother was 14 or so, my Great Grandfather gave her a box of food staples to take to the new family that moved into the community at a farm down the road as a sort of "welcome".  Just some butter, eggs and stuff, and a small jar of his homemade horseradish.  When she got there, she discovered they were an Italian immigrant family, and they had the house already festooned with what SHE thought was typical Italian decor.  Flowers, sausages and other decorations on the walls, red checkered tablecloths and wine bottles with candles in the necks on the table and such.  Like she imagined a farmhouse in Italy would look like.

 

When she got back home she told my great Grandfather all about it and asked him, "How come WE don't have anything around the house that lets people know we're Polish?" 

 

My Great Grandfather led her to the front door, pointed out to the road and said, "See the NAME on the mailbox?  KUROWSKI?  How much MORE Polish do you want to be?"  When she again described the new neighbor's house he told her, "If I wanted my house to look like a farmhouse in Poland, I'd have STAYED in Poland!"  and walked off shaking his head back and forth, throwing up his hands while shrugging his shoulders.

 

My family's had that attitude ever since.  ;)

 

 

Sepiatone

that Grandfather sounded like a pretty reasonable fellow. :)

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that Grandfather sounded like a pretty reasonable fellow. :)

 

I guess so, Nip.  He died the year before I was born, so I missed out.  But much of the stuff I post in here that I credit to my Grandmother is said to have come from HIM originally.  ;)

 

 

Sepiatone

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CNN is reporting on a lawsuit to prevent one of these monuments from being taken down.  The suit claims the monument is on private land and therefore the city has no legal right to remove it.

 

Looks like a stunt to me since the status of the property should be well established.   

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CNN is reporting on a lawsuit to prevent one of these monuments from being taken down.  The suit claims the monument is on private land and therefore the city has no legal right to remove it.

 

Looks like a stunt to me since the status of the property should be well established.   

As I read it, appears the Lt. Gov. and the others may have a legitimate claim.  The city does not own the park, the park association does.  Question is who "owns" the park associaition?  If not appointed by the mayor or city council, they are not under the city.  Even if they are, are they independent once appointed.  This is one of the many facets of government that most people have little knowledge about.

I served on a "county" commission appointed by the county's state legislative delegation, but the county tried to claim authority over us.  Didn't work.  Now serve on an independent water authority board created by the state, but with appointments by governor with recommendations of two town councils. Technically an independent state agency.

 

The other aspect is that this is a moument to an historic New Orleans person.  Very different from Lee or Jefferson.

While the cause for which he fought may have been wrong, he was a citizen of New Orleans and Louisiana who served the legitimate government of his city and state.  It is a very complicated issue.

Should we remove Lincoln's monuments because he approved of military actions against Native-Americans, to include mass executions or that he actually particpated in a war against Native-Americans?

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I can't believe we're still fighting the Civil War. I thought that was settled a long time ago.

 

Well, it was of course, Princess.

 

(...but you know how sore losers can be sometimes, doncha?!...yep, nothin' but a constant chorus of "Could'a, Should'a, Would'as comin' from 'em for years and years and years, sometimes!) ;)

 

LOL

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Don't be a moon calf, don't be a lily liver. Don't sit around

waiting for the government. Blow these babies up on your

own. :)

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I can't believe we're still fighting the Civil War. I thought that was settled a long time ago.

I understand what you are saying, but a different context is that the monuments and memorials have been there for over 100 years in most cases.  Now, there are some people who want them removed.  So are they responsible for unsettling the situation?

12 US presidents have owned slaves, including Grant.  Washington and Jefferson owned hundreds.  Should we remove their monuments and memorials.

Not exactly the same as the Civil War, but a controversial issue.

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12 US presidents have owned slaves, including Grant.  Washington and Jefferson owned hundreds.  Should we remove their monuments and memorials.

 

We could always go back to putting Miss Liberty, Native Americans and buffaloes on our coins.

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Some people conveniently forget that Abraham Lincoln was a Republican.

And some people conveniently forget that Strom Thurmond was originally a Democrat until he became Republican.

 

And then only after he was dead we found out that this staunch white supremacist, "segregation forever" Dixiecrat had a mulatto daughter whom he had supported and hidden for years.

 

This former governor of South Carolina had also been a senator of South Carolina for 48 years.

 

So sometimes you can be a lot of other things besides a Republican. Even if you are a Republican, when you die.

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Some people also forget that the Democrat's had a U.S. Senator from West Virginia who was a former K K K member for many years and his party never blinked an eye. He even recruited 150 new K K K members himself.

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Some people also forget that the Democrat's had a U.S. Senator from West Virginia who was a former K K K member for many years and his party never blinked an eye. He even recruited 150 new K K K members himself.

 

Wonder if they knew the onetime Klan member who was a U.S. senator from Alabama (also a Democrat) in the 1930s. He ended up on the U.S. Supreme Court for 34 years and turned out to be one of the great justices.

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And some people conveniently forget that Strom Thurmond was originally a Democrat until he became Republican.

 

And then only after he was dead we found out that this staunch white supremacist, "segregation forever" Dixiecrat had a mulatto daughter whom he had supported and hidden for years.

 

This former governor of South Carolina had also been a senator of South Carolina for 48 years.

 

So sometimes you can be a lot of other things besides a Republican. Even if you are a Republican, when you die.

An interesting thing about Thurmond is that he is only gov. of S.C. elected on a write-in.  The official party wouldn't put him on the ballot, so he ran as a write-in.  Supposedly he distributed pencils with his name on them so people would know what to write down.  At that time, he was still known as James Strom Thurmond.  He was a judge before he became governor.

 

Most people do not remember that up until 1964 there was essentially only one party in the South - Democratic.  Far, far more one party than the current one party Republican system in most of South.

The basic membership of the Republican Party in the South after 1964 came from the extreme conservative, racist, discriminatory elements of the Democratic Party.  They eventually pushed aside the old-line moderate, fiscal conservative, pro-business Republicans of the past.

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Some people also forget that the Democrat's had a U.S. Senator from West Virginia who was a former K K K member for many years and his party never blinked an eye. He even recruited 150 new K K K members himself.

 

I tell you what I do remember very well watching CBS News live coverage - -

it was June 11th 1963.

 

I watched the Democratic governor of Alabama , George Wallace stand, in the doorway of the University of Alabama trying to prevent two black students from enrolling in a State University.

 

I remember very well seeing a Democratic Presidential Administration desegregate a State University in the Deep South.

 

Deputy Attorney General Nicholas Katzenbach under Atty. General Robert F Kennedy, who was directed and sanctioned by President John F Kennedy --all Democrats --demanded that this man get out of the way so that these young black citizens could attend a State University.

 

I also remember reading later how Kennedy had simply told the Attorney General to give Wallace an opportunity to get out of the way because he was a Democrat, before they had to knock him out of the way.

 

So when Nicholas Katzenbach made his demand, the white supremist segregationist governor read some BS about states rights and then he immediately got the **** out of the way.

 

It's hard to lie about history to a person who actually saw it happen.

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I tell you what I do remember very well watching CBS News live coverage - -

it was June 11th 1963.

 

I watched the Democratic governor of Alabama , George Wallace stand, in the doorway of the University of Alabama trying to prevent two black students from enrolling in a State University.

 

I remember very well seeing a Democratic Presidential Administration desegregate a State University in the Deep South.

 

Deputy Attorney General Nicholas Katzenbach under Atty. General Robert F Kennedy, who was directed and sanctioned by President John F Kennedy --all Democrats --demanded that this man get out of the way so that these young black citizens could attend a State University.

 

I also remember reading later how Kennedy had simply told the Attorney General to give Wallace an opportunity to get out of the way because he was a Democrat, before they had to knock him out of the way.

 

So when Nicholas Katzenbach made his demand, the white supremist segregationist governor read some BS about states rights and then he immediately got the **** out of the way.

 

It's hard to lie about history to a person who actually saw it happen.

Of course in reality, it was all a political PR stunt by Wallace.  He knew he was not actually going to prevent the enrollment of the students.  He was going to give his speech and then move out of the way.  He was playing to his base and got a lot of free publicity in the bargain.  Similar to many of the things Trump does.

Wallace lost his first race for political office because he did not come out as a strong segregationist or attack Blacks.  He had an expression for it that is not that bad, but would be censored here.  He said he would "never be out-n****** again.""

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