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TheCid

Trump's Tax Cuts for the Wealthy & Corporations

233 posts in this topic

17 minutes ago, jamesjazzguitar said:

The American people knew this before and they still vote overwhelmingly GOP  (outside of CA and NY).

 

 

Ya think?  Maybe they forgot. The Americans I spoke to who voted for Trump were caught up in this change the system hysteria.

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21 minutes ago, jamesjazzguitar said:

The American people knew this before and they still vote overwhelmingly GOP  (outside of CA and NY).

 

 

Many genuinely believed Trump's rhetoric that most of the tax cuts would be for the poor.

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13 hours ago, Gershwin fan said:

Many genuinely believed Trump's rhetoric that most of the tax cuts would be for the poor.

Actually they didn't.  They believed his tax cuts would benefit the working and middle classes and small businesses. That is what Trump and the GOPers really emphasized.  The Trump voters didn't care about the poor and the poor don't vote.  The statement re: it helping the poor was a feel good thing to make them think they were helping out the "poor."  Sort of like dropping a dollar in a Salvation Army kettle once a year.

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17 hours ago, Bogie56 said:

Ya think?  Maybe they forgot. The Americans I spoke to who voted for Trump were caught up in this change the system hysteria.

I was talking about Congress.   But I guess many voters don't know that the President doesn't pass any legislation.   So if they voted for Trump expecting a different type of GOP stance on taxes (or gun control or multiple other issues),  they were fools.     This GOP tax plan is what the GOP has been trying to do for over a decade.  In addition when the GOP goes to cut entitlements no one should be surprised about that either.   This is another thing they have openly discussed doing for decades.  

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3 hours ago, TheCid said:

Actually they didn't.  They believed his tax cuts would benefit the working and middle classes and small businesses. That is what Trump and the GOPers really emphasized.  The Trump voters didn't care about the poor and the poor don't vote.  The statement re: it helping the poor was a feel good thing to make them think they were helping out the "poor."  Sort of like dropping a dollar in a Salvation Army kettle once a year.

By "poor" I meant the non-insanely rich who won't actually benefit like the small businesses and working class.

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5 hours ago, jamesjazzguitar said:

I was talking about Congress.   But I guess many voters don't know that the President doesn't pass any legislation.   So if they voted for Trump expecting a different type of GOP stance on taxes (or gun control or multiple other issues),  they were fools.     This GOP tax plan is what the GOP has been trying to do for over a decade.  In addition when the GOP goes to cut entitlements no one should be surprised about that either.   This is another thing they have openly discussed doing for decades.  

There is already talk among GOP that the projected deficits and debt justify massive cuts to entitlements.  The tax cut act was just step one in their program.  Sneak it through and then the rest falls into place.

I belong to a couple of military related organizations and both are big on expanding defense spending - more ships, more planes, more troops, more facilities and equipment, more senior officers and headquarters units, etc.  Then they turn around and complain about planned and projected cuts to retirement, family support, dependent care, medical coverage, etc.

They never realize that entitlements means them.  And when it comes down to cuts in benefits for veterans and military vs. cuts to education, Social Security, Medicare and many others, the ones with the largest voting groups will win.  

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SATIRE

New GOP Tax Plan Requires Welfare Recipients To Apply For Each Individual Piece Of Food

WASHINGTON—As part of their effort to rein in government spending through entitlement reform, GOP congressional leaders announced Friday that their new tax plan will require welfare recipients to apply for each individual piece of food they receive. “Mandating that all Americans on food stamps submit a separate application for every morsel they want to buy ensures that they get the nutrition they need without wasting taxpayer dollars,” said House Speaker Paul Ryan, explaining that the new bill would significantly reduce the costs of the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program by requiring low-income Americans to make a case for each piece of fruit, slice of bread, or grain of rice they plan to purchase. “Putting more onus on welfare recipients to justify why they need to buy something like a potato chip, a dollop of mayonnaise, or a pinch of salt with taxpayer money will help increase personal responsibility and reduce waste. In addition, parents will be required to fill out separate forms itemizing each mouthful taken by their children, which will enable them to be adequately nourished while not indulging in superfluous calories at government expense.” Ryan added that the bill also included work-requirement reform mandating that all food stamp recipients submit daily paperwork to their SNAP office with a valid explanation for each minute they weren’t working.

https://politics.theonion.com/new-gop-tax-plan-requires-welfare-recipients-to-apply-f-1821130408

:lol:

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2 hours ago, LawrenceA said:

SATIRE

New GOP Tax Plan Requires Welfare Recipients To Apply For Each Individual Piece Of Food

WASHINGTON—As part of their effort to rein in government spending through entitlement reform, GOP congressional leaders announced Friday that their new tax plan will require welfare recipients to apply for each individual piece of food they receive. “Mandating that all Americans on food stamps submit a separate application for every morsel they want to buy ensures that they get the nutrition they need without wasting taxpayer dollars,” said House Speaker Paul Ryan, explaining that the new bill would significantly reduce the costs of the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program by requiring low-income Americans to make a case for each piece of fruit, slice of bread, or grain of rice they plan to purchase. “Putting more onus on welfare recipients to justify why they need to buy something like a potato chip, a dollop of mayonnaise, or a pinch of salt with taxpayer money will help increase personal responsibility and reduce waste. In addition, parents will be required to fill out separate forms itemizing each mouthful taken by their children, which will enable them to be adequately nourished while not indulging in superfluous calories at government expense.” Ryan added that the bill also included work-requirement reform mandating that all food stamp recipients submit daily paperwork to their SNAP office with a valid explanation for each minute they weren’t working.

https://politics.theonion.com/new-gop-tax-plan-requires-welfare-recipients-to-apply-f-1821130408

:lol:

Sounds like this program will cost more to administer than it will save in taxpayer spending.    But I would like to see the use of food stamps limited to actual food;  E.g. NO soda,  no products with added sugar,   no use at fast food places,  etc...    In addition people on government assistance should have an abortion before having a child but the government should provide birth control for free.  

PS:  Oh I see this is satire.   I assume it was done to show that it is mean to reduce the food stamp allocation or to limit it to actual food.   Nonsense.   Since such a high percentage of food stamps are used on total junk,  this says to me the food stamp allocation is too high and that the program is more about corporate welfare (by giving dollars to corporations that sell junk) instead of ensure people get the nutrition they need.

 

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4 hours ago, Bogie56 said:

Surprised?  From the WP ...

As tax plan gained steam, GOP lost focus on the middle class
The final product is looking much different from what President Trump has been promising since the presidential campaign.
By Damian Paletta  •

That is simply because Trump has no understanding nor knowledge of how government and the economy actually function.  He has no understanding or knowledge of how the tax system is supposed to work in order to support a functioning democratic government.

Besides which he lies like heck and is stupid if he does not know that he is lying and the tax cut program will not benefit the workers, middle class or small businesses.  What is worse is that many working and middle class and business people voted for him because they believed his lies.

Believe that Democrats lie, but they know it and they know that you probably know it.  However, they know what the truth is and what realistically can be done to improve America and people's lives. 

 Whereas Republicans lie because they don't care what the truth is as long as the lie serves their interests.  Nor do they care how it harms America and the people.

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More on the impending disaster known as the Tax Cut Bill.  It will probably go down in history as the worst legislative action by Congress.  Not for what it does or does not do, but for it was passed into law.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/precision-sacrificed-for-speed-as-gop-rushes-ahead-on-taxes/2017/12/10/876ab274-dc62-11e7-b1a8-62589434a581_story.html?undefined=&utm_term=.3d01425bb6df&wpisrc=nl_most&wpmm=1

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Sen. Tim Scott (R) of SC has been appointed to the conference committee on the Tax Cut Bill.  FYI, he is the only elected African-American Republican senator.  He was appointed to the Senate originally by Gov. Nikki Haley a few years back.

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Tax Cut negotiators are considering lowering the bills already lowered 39.6% max tax to 37% due to complaints from super wealthy.  Also the 20% corporate tax may be raised to 21%, but the bills are full of exemptions and so forth for corporations and businesses.

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2 hours ago, TheCid said:

Tax Cut negotiators are considering lowering the bills already lowered 39.6% max tax to 37% due to complaints from super wealthy.  Also the 20% corporate tax may be raised to 21%, but the bills are full of exemptions and so forth for corporations and businesses.

No surprise to me here.    In fact I was more surprised that the initial proposal was so close to 40%.

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19 hours ago, mr6666 said:

Bernie SandersVerified account @SenSanders 5h5 hours ago

 
 

There has not been one public hearing, no opportunity to hear from economists, governors, mayors or ordinary Americans who will be impacted by this tax bill. This is a sham.

 

:mellow:-_-

While I think the bill is being pushed through with all kinds of deal making, erroneous information, incorrect data, etc., not so sure you could say no economists, governors or ordinary Americans haven't had an opportunity to express their opinions.  Just not in front of House or Senate committees.

Appears Rubio is pushing for a larger child credit or he promises to vote no.  Corker promised to vote no.  McCain may not vote at all.  If GOPers lose three votes, the bill is dead, assuming all Dems. vote against it.  I expect Rubio will come around regardless.

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4 minutes ago, TheCid said:

While I think the bill is being pushed through with all kinds of deal making, erroneous information, incorrect data, etc., not so sure you could say no economists, governors or ordinary Americans haven't an opportunity to express their opinions.  Just not in front of House or Senate committees.

Appears Rubio is pushing for a larger child credit or he promises to vote no.  Corker promised to vote no.  McCain may not vote at all.  If GOPers lose three votes, the bill is dead, assuming all Dems. vote against it.  I expect Rubio will come around regardless.

Bernie must not watch the news or read a newspaper.   E.g.  CNN has had economists comment on the impact of the bill,  their website has had multiple articles about the impact to ordinary Americans (e.g. there is one where you enter your state and tax bracket and it tell you the short and long term impact),  and my local paper had a few stories that outlined the impact of both the House and Senate versions on California residents (also by tax bracket), that were very detailed.   

I assume most GOP members in Congress have viewed this type of 'feedback'.   So it isn't that they are clueless but instead that they just don't care.   The bottom line being the bill is designed to benefit their major donors.    No one should be surprised by that.    

 

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“We’re going to have to get back next year at entitlement reform, which is how you tackle the debt and the deficit,” the Death Ferret said while being interviewed on a radio talk show. Medicare and Medicaid “are the big drivers of the debt” Speaker Paul Ryan explained. “That’s where the problem lies, fiscally speaking.”

Do you see the genius at work here? I mean, just look at them! First they pass a so-called “tax cut” that actually raises taxes on tens of millions of lower and middle class Americans while cutting taxes on millionaires and billionaires and adding trillions to the deficit. Then they use the increase in the deficit to justify cutting the two federal programs that actually work to aid the people whose taxes they just raised........

https://www.salon.com/2017/12/13/american-taliban/?page=2

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20 hours ago, mr6666 said:

 

“We’re going to have to get back next year at entitlement reform, which is how you tackle the debt and the deficit,” the Death Ferret said while being interviewed on a radio talk show. Medicare and Medicaid “are the big drivers of the debt” Speaker Paul Ryan explained. “That’s where the problem lies, fiscally speaking.”

Do you see the genius at work here? I mean, just look at them! First they pass a so-called “tax cut” that actually raises taxes on tens of millions of lower and middle class Americans while cutting taxes on millionaires and billionaires and adding trillions to the deficit. Then they use the increase in the deficit to justify cutting the two federal programs that actually work to aid the people whose taxes they just raised........

 

Yes, it is genius at work here:  anyone that didn't know that the GOP had such a plan and would execute it if given the power (majority in both the House, Senate and a GOP President),  hasn't been paying attention.      E.g. it was clear that the GOP wasn't going to cut defense spending.   In fact they were clear they wanted to increase it.    Therefore the only logical place to make cuts are Medicare and Medicaid,  as well as Social Security.

PS:  by 'logical' I meant given the GOP's stance with regards to where dollars should be spent. 

 

 

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The defense spending they are raising is primarily to benefit the MIPC (military-industrial-political-complex) as the bulk of the money goes toward defense contractors.  Meanwhile DOD continues to create plans to actually reduce spending on personnel, dependents and retirees.

Other news is that the GOPers caved in to Rubio and his so called child tax credit increase to "benefit" working class.  That will give them the 50 plus Pence they need for passage.

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Sen. Corker and Rubio are going to vote for the Tax Cut Bill.  Flake and Collins are reportedly undecided, but they will vote for it in the end.  So, it's a done deal.

Below is a summary of what is in the bill.  Also a link to the 505 page document if you wish to read it.  Doubt many of the people voting for it read it. The deficit will be $1.46 Trillion.  Which will be the excuse to cut Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, VA benefits, health and retirement benefits for the military, ad infinitum.

One TV commentator noted that it goes into effect 10 days after it has been passed.  No regulations, guidelines or other information has been prepared by IRS or any other Federal agencies.  I am sure the tax lawyers, accountants and their organizations are busily setting up conferences to determine how to finagle the new laws.

Will be interesting to see how many "errors" are discovered which allow the super wealthy and corporations to pay even less in taxes.  

Also, the tax cuts for the working and middle classes expire in  10 years, whereas the ones for corporations are permanent.  Why not just make all of them permanent?

www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/12/15/the-final-gop-tax-bill-is-complete-heres-what-is-in-it/?undefined=&utm_term=.bb993e872369&wpisrc=nl_headlines&wpmm=1

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They are only permanent comparatively until the Dems get back in control and sheet can the whole works. 

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6 minutes ago, cigarjoe said:

They are only permanent comparatively until the Dems get back in control and sheet can the whole works. 

If the economy keeps on being strong; unemployment < 5%,  wage increases (even slight ones),   growth rate around 3% if not more,  etc...    it will be very hard for Dems to win elections in Red States.   Even in purple states it will be difficult.      The GOP used the 2010 census to create districts that ensure they retain about 40% of the House regardless of how poorly they are doing.   

The Dems are at their lowest level of power (at all levels of government) in over 50 years.   Yea, they will make gains,  maybe even major ones in 2018 and 2020,  but if the economy is strong I just don't see voters that voted GOP in 2014, and 2016,  (except outside of the coast)  deciding to make a switch and vote Dem.    

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