spence

A POLL: Sinatra, Bing or Elvis???

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:D    Was thinking about this little TCM-ITE poll for a week & now that "The Chairman of the  Board: Francis Albert Sinatra" is currently on TCM again, it just reminded me of this again

 

 

1st only a few stats each

 

 

SINATRA was born Sicilian in Hoboken, NJ on December 12th, 1915 & barely lived-(hence to left ear) he was cold, until, his grandmother put him under cold watcher  They used forseps as well-(thought scar)

He made it to  5'8 & 1/2 & 4earlo on weight about 125lbs-(got up to 165yrs later) His favorite number "New York, New York"

Made (58 films) (l943-8l) & won the Best S. Actor Gold as Maggio in 1953's "From Here to Eternity" Won 13 Grammys  Sinatra snagged a 2nd & this time leading Oscar for 1955's "Man With the Golden Arm"-(his fav.)   Intererred Plm Sprins, Calif "Desert Memorial Park" Rumor has it that he was laid to rest with a pk of cigs, red scarf, bottle of jack daniels & a pocket full of change, in case he hits some slots!   & especially on massive temper, among a myriad of reasons he & Brando detested each other, mostly filming "Guys & Dolls" Frank always wanted to play Nathan Detroit instead & Brando would only call him "The Singer"

 

 

BING (LILLIS) CROSBY Tacoma Washington  (l903-l977)-(actually died of a heart attack on a madrid golf coast) (Made (not sure) films though  7 of which were with Bob Hope   5'8 inches tall  Song: "Wish Upon a Star" (film career: 1930-74)  (Won the Best Actor Oscar for 1944's "Going My

Way")   Not certain of Bing's Grammy victories though   Earned a 2nd nomination for '45's "The Bells of St. Mary's" & a final shot for '54's "The Country Girl" (Internment: "Holy Cross, cem" in Culver City, CALIF.) (TRIVIA: Frank's music hero was his idol-(musically) & then great pal Bogey really became his hero) I think his fav. film was also "The Country Girl"  (GIVEAWAY/TRIVIA: Both "The Chairman" & Bing wore a hair  pc.  & Frankie Boy was ULTRA senstive about his BIG-TIME   "The Duke" wore 1 fore decades-(calling it his flipper) but was no where as touchy about this

 

 

 

 

& ELVIS (Aaron) PRESLEY- 1935-77 Cherokee & altime top#2 biggest selling artist, only after The Beatles"  Went from 165to 255lbs    Favorite Song: "Can't Help Falling In Love" -(Which he ended every conce with, up to rt the minuite (Film Career: 1956-75)  Only won 3 Grammys though?   (Overall "The King" made 33 pix)   His favorite film: "King Creole"  (Laid to rest at the now legendary "Graceland Mansion" in Memphis) (TRIVIA: Elvis' idol was at one time actor Tony Curtis, hence the hair turning jet black)   Elvis though loved his gospel tunes most    (TRIVIA: I don't know how they keep a head count-(need your opinion) but there is this fact that more fans & non fans visit Graceland then any other grave on the planet??? & Elvis threw his $Dough$ around A LOT, he';d buy fancy cars for people he barely knew all-the  time

:huh:

 

THANK YOU & PL$EASE CHIME-IN

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    Almost 4-got, apologize to you Peter Allen fans out there

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   (continued: just a couple of the reasons Sinatra & Brando did not like each other, to say the least

 

Marlon only called him "The Singer" on set & Frank called him :"Mumbles"

 

Then of course the casting problem, it goes back about a year too, when FS desperately wanted to play Terry Malloy the most, because it was technically shot in his hometown of Hoboken

 

 

& much more

 

 

& I'm fairly positive on this, the all-time 2 giants never met, held hands or even spoke together again

 

They say once Frank was off of you, that was IT  Just look t poor P{eter Lawford!?

 

 

Although Barbara Walters-(l929-) had a little spat way back & after one interview he would always rush by & ingnore Barbara & for decades too. She is still kinda puzzled. Then one night & out pof the Blue he started taling with her!  He told her he got burned in the press by other lady journalists & they stayed pal

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Bing was, by far, the biggest movie star of the three.  He is the only one to be Number 1 Box Office star, multiple years.  In movies, I enjoy all three.

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Frank Sinatra

 

Unreal jazz skills.  I'm not old enough to have seen Sinatra in concert, but in his prime I would have loved it.  He was the real deal, for my taste the best ever in jazz.  Bing Crosby?  Pleasant voice, pleasant music, cut some nice sides early on and I like some of his duets in his prime years.  BUT... to me he was all over the place, he lacked a certain "style" that was a sound.  He made a lot of records, did very well though.  

 

 

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Bing was, by far, the biggest movie star of the three.  He is the only one to be Number 1 Box Office star, multiple years.  In movies, I enjoy all three.

But you must admit Francis Albert was the superior actor of the 3

 

Don't know of know Bing's output career wise, but The Chairman sold over 2,000 records & over 1,800 albums over 6 decades!

 

 

(TRIVIA: Despite his enormous output & decades of music, the  official all-time highest selling artists to date are

 

1.  The Beatles-(by far!)

2. Elvis

3. Michael Jackson

4. Madonna & 5th place is Elton John

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Though Elvis was fine in"King Creole" (l958) (***) his fav. role by the way

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In his earliest years as "The Voice"-(not a fan of that period myself) Bing was his idol, but many yrs later he's quoted as saying Tonny Bennett-(l926-) was the finest singer alive

 

 

As for Elvis & many know wthis-(P.S. he lived literally in a shack for yrs in Missippi) it's true he'd go over to the blacks play jazz & other kinds of music

 

 

Little Ricard-(l935-) has been throwing a tantrum for deacdes now, because he believes he's the righly "King"

 

 

Presley-(pre Army) was also pretty good in '57's "Jailhouse Rock" (***) By the 2yrs later he came out & things had already chanced musically?

 

Again, don't know eough about Bing to elaborate I'm positive that critics & such found her work in "C. Girl" a lot stronger then his 1944 "Going My Way"

 

But, he didn't stand a SHOT that year to win a2nd Oscar, because of>

 

Brando, "Waterfront"-(BLOW-OUT!)

Bogey, "Caine Mutiny"

Dan 0'Herliy, "Robinson Crusoe"-(P.S. A performance that had no business nudging out Sinatra in '54's "Suddenly?)

James Mason, "A Star is Born"

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You're talking three different styles of three different singers often in three different GENRES.  There's no INTELLIGENT way or reason to MAKE a choice.

 

If you're talking acting in movies,  I'd have to say, given the material they were, all three did as well as could be expected.  But somehow, Frank got some MEATIER roles than did the others, and therefore I'd have to go with HIM. 

 

Bing I thought, was "top-notch" in THE COUNTRY GIRL, but Frank stepped by him with his work in THE MAN WITH THE GOLSEN ARM and FROM HERE TO ETERNITY.

 

I thought Elvis was DANDY in KING CREOLE and WILD IN THE COUNTRY, but neither role required the range and depth that "Golden Arm" did, so he misses out.  But I've always felt that Elvis, given the right roles, would too have been an Oscar contender at some point.  I thought he certainly showed the potential.

 

 

Sepiatone

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You're talking three different styles of three different singers often in three different GENRES.  There's no INTELLIGENT way or reason to MAKE a choice.

 

If you're talking acting in movies,  I'd have to say, given the material they were, all three did as well as could be expected.  But somehow, Frank got some MEATIER roles than did the others, and therefore I'd have to go with HIM. 

 

Bing I thought, was "top-notch" in THE COUNTRY GIRL, but Frank stepped by him with his work in THE MAN WITH THE GOLSEN ARM and FROM HERE TO ETERNITY.

 

I thought Elvis was DANDY in KING CREOLE and WILD IN THE COUNTRY, but neither role required the range and depth that "Golden Arm" did, so he misses out.  But I've always felt that Elvis, given the right roles, would too have been an Oscar contender at some point.  I thought he certainly showed the potential.

 

 

Sepiatone

 

Your making the simple overly complicated:  Which of the 3 do you listen too the most often?     For me it was Frank.

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It's really NOT all that "simple" James.  I'd say I give them all equal time, which really means I don't listen to either of them all that much.  Just whenever anything by any of them happens to be playing wherever I might happen to be at any given time.

 

My hearing or listening to them is more ambient  than active.

 

 

Sepiatone

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Despite my screen name, I'd rank Frank ahead of Bing, and both ahead of Elvis, in my list of favorite singers.  

 

I love Bing, who was an outstanding singer and did a great job in many genres of music (jazz, pop, big band, Hawaiian, country-western, novelty).  He was also a very talented and very popular actor who was very good in both comedy and drama, although he tended to favor lighter roles.  And he was one of the top broadcasting personalities of his day.  Finally, in his later years, he was a top concert draw.

 

But Frank was simply more of an artist with his singing, and that's why I prefer him a bit over Bing.  He dug into the lyrics and brought out every bit of feeling in them, although he sometimes sang songs that didn't have a lot of feeling in them to bring out.  He was a very good actor, but I'd argue that his talent was mostly for drama; he has trouble really inhabiting a comic character without winking at the audience, so his comedies are mostly forgettable.  And he limited his accomplishments in acting by refusing to rehearse or do more than one take, as well as often being very difficult to work with.  He was also a top concert artist, for many more years than Bing.

 

Elvis had probably the best voice of the three.  And I've always thought of him as Bing's musical grandson: Bing was admired by Dean Martin, who was admired by Elvis.  While I love many of Elvis's records, I've never connected with him in the same way as Frank or Bing.  And Elvis's movies are almost all forgettable, with a few exceptions (e.g., JAILHOUSE ROCK, KING CREOLE, VIVA LAS VEGAS).

 

I would argue, however, that Bing was by far the most successful overall show biz figure of the three.  He was tops in recording, broadcasting, and movies, a combination that neither Frank nor Elvis achieved.  And while others may have sold more total records, Bing had far more chart hits than any other artist in history, including Frank, Elvis, and the Beatles (my favorite musical artists).  Here are some interesting and impressive Bing statistics from the web site of the International Club Crosby:

 

As put together by Gary Giddins, in his marvellous book, Bing Crosby: A Pocketful of Dreams – the Early Years 1903-1940, published by Little, Brown in 2001.

 

·         Bing was the first full-time vocalist ever signed to an orchestra.

·         He made more studio recordings than any other singer in history.

·         He made the most popular record ever, “White Christmas,” the only single to make American pop charts twenty times, every year but one between 1942 and 1952.  In 1998, after a long absence, his 1947 version hit the charts in Britain.

·         Between 1927 and 1962 he scored 368 charted records under his own name, plus twenty-eight as a vocalist with various bandleaders, for a total of 396.  No one else has come close: compare Paul Whiteman (220), Frank Sinatra (209), Elvis Presley (149), Glenn Miller (129), Nat “King” Cole (118), Louis Armstrong (85), the Beatles (68).

·         He scored the most number one hits ever, 38, compared with 24 by the Beatles and 18 by Presley.

·         In 1960 he received a platinum record as First Citizen of the Record Industry for having sold 200 million discs, a number that doubled by 1980.

·         Between 1915 and 1980 he was the only motion-picture star to rank as the number one box-office attraction five times (1944-48).  Between 1934 and 1954 he scored in the top ten fifteen times.

·         “Going My Way” was the highest-grossing film in the history of Paramount Pictures until 1947; “The Bells of St. Mary’s” was the highest-grossing film in the history of RKO Pictures until 1947.

·         He was nominated for an Academy Award for best actor three times and won for “Going My Way”.

·         He was a major radio star longer than any other performer, from 1931 until 1954 on network, 1954 until 1962 in syndication.

·         He appeared on approximately 4,000 radio broadcasts, nearly 3,400 of them his own programs, and single-handedly changed radio from a live-performance to a canned or recorded medium by presenting, in 1946, the first transcribed network show on ABC – thereby making that also-ran network a major force.

·         He financed and popularized the development of tape, revolutionizing the recording industry.

·         He created the first and longest-running celebrity pro-am golf championship, playing host for thirty-five years, raising millions in charity, and was the central figure in the development of the Del Mar racetrack in California.

·         He made the largest number of V-discs and army broadcasts of any American entertainer and raised $14.5 million in war bonds (a “Yank” magazine poll declared him the individual who had done more for GI morale during World War II).

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But you must admit Francis Albert was the superior actor of the 3

 

Don't know of know Bing's output career wise, but The Chairman sold over 2,000 records & over 1,800 albums over 6 decades!

 

 

(TRIVIA: Despite his enormous output & decades of music, the  official all-time highest selling artists to date are

 

1.  The Beatles-(by far!)

2. Elvis

3. Michael Jackson

4. Madonna & 5th place is Elton John

I'm pretty sure those "records" are only by more recent standards, rock era-onward.  Bing is the biggest star, of all media, ever.  He has had more chart hits than anyone, by far, in recorded history.  As a movie star, only Clark Gable and John Wayne have sold more movie tickets.  Not only that, you are going by the rock-era American charts.  Elvis tops the UK charts, not The Beatles.

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I know it was unintentional, but it tickled me that SPENCE reported that Sinatra's singles and albums sold in the THOUSANDS!  :P

 

 

Sepiatone

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I know it was unintentional, but it tickled me that SPENCE reported that Sinatra's singles and albums sold in the THOUSANDS!  :P

 

 

Sepiatone

We saw him on his last tour. I think he had a backing tape behind him which he would sing to just like Elvis had for those high notes he couldn't hit anymore. As Ava Gardner once said "Sing, Frank, don't talk."

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None of them, DINO !!!!

 

Many do feel that Dino had the best voice.    I can accept that,  but he wasn't a better singer than Frank or Bing.

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Many do feel that Dino had the best voice.    I can accept that,  but he wasn't a better singer than Frank or Bing.

The thing that bothers me in these kind of discussions is that NONE of THEM ever thought that way.  I don't think Bing Crosby went around thinking, "Well, Im a MUCH bu-bu-bu-better singer than Sinatra!"  ;)

 

 

Or that Frank and Dino cared one way or another.  They all had their boatloads of fans and also had mutual respect for each other.  I'd only go so far as to think that with his sense of humor, DINO would be the one of them to say something like, "That BING fellow with the EARS sings pretty GOOD for a guy who isn't ITALIAN!"  :D

 

 

Sepiatone

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The thing that bothers me in these kind of discussions is that NONE of THEM ever thought that way. I don't think Bing Crosby went around thinking, "Well, Im a MUCH bu-bu-bu-better singer than Sinatra!" ;)

 

 

Or that Frank and Dino cared one way or another. They all had their boatloads of fans and also had mutual respect for each other. I'd only go so far as to think that with his sense of humor, DINO would be the one of them to say something like, "That BING fellow with the EARS sings pretty GOOD for a guy who isn't ITALIAN!" :D

 

 

Sepiatone

 

I have to disagree with you here. I think Bing probably was exactly the kind of person who thought he was the best singer of all time.

 

I get the biggest kick out of looking at the three of them Bing, Frank and Dino in Robin and the Seven Hoods doing that great number, you either got or you haven't got "Style".

 

Frank Sinatra is giving it his professional panache; Dean Martin is performing like Dean Martin-- no sweat-- but take a good look and you see that Bing Crosby is absolutely giving it 500%.

 

This was very important to him that he not only keep up with these younger guys, but that he surpass them. He's the only one really taking this stuff, and himself, seriously.

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The thing that bothers me in these kind of discussions is that NONE of THEM ever thought that way.  I don't think Bing Crosby went around thinking, "Well, Im a MUCH bu-bu-bu-better singer than Sinatra!"  ;)

 

 

Or that Frank and Dino cared one way or another.  They all had their boatloads of fans and also had mutual respect for each other.  I'd only go so far as to think that with his sense of humor, DINO would be the one of them to say something like, "That BING fellow with the EARS sings pretty GOOD for a guy who isn't ITALIAN!"  :D

 

 

Sepiatone

 

We really don't know what they really though,  but yea,   I don't recall them publically comparing each other or one saying they were better (that would be tacky).     BUT that doesn't mean that they didn't think about that.    I know as a musician I compare myself to others (typically I know I'm NOT better!).     I look at what others are doing and compare it with what I'm doing and try to incorporate the things they do better into my playing.     In a few cases after a decade or so I have gotten better than some in our circle;   I.e. practice and dedications has improved me while having kids and a non-supporting wife have held back a few of my friends (ok,  that crack about wife-and-kids is somewhat of a joke but there is a lot truth there as well).

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We really don't know what they really though,  but yea,   I don't recall them publically comparing each other or one saying they were better (that would be tacky).     BUT that doesn't mean that they didn't think about that.    I know as a musician I compare myself to others (typically I know I'm NOT better!).     I look at what others are doing and compare it with what I'm doing and try to incorporate the things they do better into my playing.     In a few cases after a decade or so I have gotten better than some in our circle;   I.e. practice and dedications has improved me while having kids and a non-supporting wife have held back a few of my friends (ok,  that crack about wife-and-kids is somewhat of a joke but there is a lot truth there as well).

But, I do recall in a Barbara Walters interview Bing, when Baba asked him if other newcomers grabbing the spotlight ever bothered him.  He claimed it never did, especially if the newcomer was good, and mentioned Sinatra as an example.  "There was no denying that kid was marvelous, and I LIKED most of what he was doing.  STILL do."

 

He also went on to say he reached a point where he quit worrying what his contemporaries were doing as it began to cause him to spend less time thinking about what HE was supposed to be doing and also cause him to not be true to who HE was.

 

BOB DYLAN is an excellent example of that attitude being put to the proof.

 

 

Sepiatone

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But, I do recall in a Barbara Walters interview Bing, when Baba asked him if other newcomers grabbing the spotlight ever bothered him.  He claimed it never did, especially if the newcomer was good, and mentioned Sinatra as an example.  "There was no denying that kid was marvelous, and I LIKED most of what he was doing.  STILL do."

 

He also went on to say he reached a point where he quit worrying what his contemporaries were doing as it began to cause him to spend less time thinking about what HE was supposed to be doing and also cause him to not be true to who HE was.

 

BOB DYLAN is an excellent example of that attitude being put to the proof.

 

 

Natalie wood's fav. musician was Dylan.

 

 

Sepiatone

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I have to disagree with you here. I think Bing probably was exactly the kind of person who thought he was the best singer of all time.

 

I get the biggest kick out of looking at the three of them Bing, Frank and Dino in Robin and the Seven Hoods doing that great number, you either got or you haven't got "Style".

 

Frank Sinatra is giving it his professional panache; Dean Martin is performing like Dean Martin-- no sweat-- but take a good look and you see that Bing Crosby is absolutely giving it 500%.

 

This was very important to him that he not only keep up with these younger guys, but that he surpass them. He's the only one really taking this stuff, and himself, seriously.

 

Frank's fav. comedian-(somewhat0 was Dino. most all say he got more laughs from Martin then anyone else, even Rickles

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