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TheCid

Impeachment AND Conviction, 25th Amendment or Censure

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Trump has brought in racist homophobic indivduals and given them power. Case in point: Jeff Sessions. It is laughable to thin k he heads the "Justice" Dept. But Trump has allowed him to try to gut safeguards for minorities and the LGBT community. It doesn't matter if Trump is personally in favor of these rights, if he has to appease his alt right supporters on these issues. Many people chose to believe the pied piper, and voted against their self interests.

 

How does any of that related to Cruz?????     Members of the GOP vote in the GOP primary.    When it got down to Cruz verses Trump Cruz was, and is, the more extreme person.    So voting for Trump over Cruz is logical and reasonable (again IF one is a member of the GOP).

 

As for the general election;  of course you wanted GOP members to hold their nose and vote for Clinton but that is an unreasonable POV.   Hey,  if many Sanders supporters and those that voted for Obama in prior elections decided to NOT vote at all since they couldn't stand Clinton,  one can't expect GOP members to vote for Clinton.    Face it Clinton was a poor candidate that wasn't popular in those battleground states that decided the election.     

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How does any of that related to Cruz?????     Members of the GOP vote in the GOP primary.    When it got down to Cruz verses Trump Cruz was, and is, the more extreme person.    So voting for Trump over Cruz is logical and reasonable (again IF one is a member of the GOP).

 

As for the general election;  of course you wanted GOP members to hold their nose and vote for Clinton but that is an unreasonable POV.   Hey,  if many Sanders supporters and those that voted for Obama in prior elections decided to NOT vote at all since they couldn't stand Clinton,  one can't expect GOP members to vote for Clinton.    Face it Clinton was a poor candidate that wasn't popular in those battleground states that decided the election.

 

I was responding to ham radio, who thought Trump was not racist or homophobic....but he has empowered someone who is and who is gutting protections to these communities. So in the end, it probably would have been no worse under Cruz.

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I was responding to ham radio, who thought Trump was not racist or homophobic....but he has empowered someone who is and who is gutting protections to these communities. So in the end, it probably would have been no worse under Cruz.

 

1 vote gives me God like powers??  Will me NOT voting made a difference?  People wonder why there is voter apathy.

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I was responding to ham radio, who thought Trump was not racist or homophobic....but he has empowered someone who is and who is gutting protections to these communities. So in the end, it probably would have been no worse under Cruz.

 

Again, Ham was comparing Trump to Cruz.       Anyhow,  I disagree that 'in the end,,, no worse under Cruz'.     I believe things would be a lot worst under Cruz.   E.g.  Cruz wouldn't be disorganized, bat-s-crazy and there would be no Russiagate, therefore he and a GOP Congress would much more able to implement a very conservative GOP agenda.     So instead of just mostly executive orders actual BS legislation would likely have been passed.

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Again, Ham was comparing Trump to Cruz.       Anyhow,  I disagree that 'in the end,,, no worse under Cruz'.     I believe things would be a lot worst under Cruz.   E.g.  Cruz wouldn't be disorganized, bat-s-crazy and there would be no Russiagate, therefore he and a GOP Congress would much more able to implement a very conservative GOP agenda.     So instead of just mostly executive orders actual BS legislation would likely have been passed.

 

I actually agree with this. Cruz would have been worse since he's a long-time politician that knows how to get the gears moving more quickly. If Trump is like a drunken baboon smashing around into everything, Cruz is like a snake slithering directly for his target. I think a lot more stuff that I wouldn't like would have passed by now with Cruz in the White House.

 

Not much praise for Trump when I'm saying he's too much of a jackass to be successfully evil.

 

I didn't care for any of the primary candidates, even for Kasich who some people seem to think has his stuff together. I've known of Kasich for a long time thanks to his radio and TV hosting gigs, and he was a tool back then. I also haven't heard good things about his stint as Ohio governor. Maybe he was the least distasteful, but that's a sad state of affairs.

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"Anderson ... do you think I'm stoooouuped?"

- John Kasich

A man who is proud to have destroyed many unions in his state.  A true man of the people, not.

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I don't have time to worry about the butterfly effect, what a person may or may not do. Sorry, no functionial crystal ball is available.

Well the whole country, the whole world, has to worry about the butterfly effect of those voters holding their noses and voting for the worst contender ever for president, who has no idea what he is doing, who is erratic and irrational, given to fits of petulance, anger and vindictiveness.....AND has the nuclear codes.

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1 vote gives me God like powers??  Will me NOT voting made a difference?  People wonder why there is voter apathy.

TRUMP has empowered Sessions.....

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Again, Ham was comparing Trump to Cruz. Anyhow, I disagree that 'in the end,,, no worse under Cruz'. I believe things would be a lot worst under Cruz. E.g. Cruz wouldn't be disorganized, bat-s-crazy and there would be no Russiagate, therefore he and a GOP Congress would much more able to implement a very conservative GOP agenda. So instead of just mostly executive orders actual BS legislation would likely have been passed.

The thing is Cruz Earned the title of the Most Hated Man in the Senate. He was only popular with Freedom Caucus members in the House of Representatives. He was anathema to moderate Republicans, and has none of the (apparently reputed) personal charm of Trump, nor his (apparently reputed) dealing-making abilities. And Cruz was a barn burner himself. He wouldnt have wanted to cut deals or compromise.I don't think he would've gotten much accomplished.

 

But you're right. If power giddy spineless Republicans would've gone along with President Cruz, he Could cause serious long term damage.

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Well the whole country, the whole world, has to worry about the butterfly effect of those voters holding their noses and voting for the worst contender ever for president, who has no idea what he is doing, who is erratic and irrational, given to fits of petulance, anger and vindictiveness.....AND has the nuclear codes.

 

In another thread Bogie just placed a post that said Trump didn't win because middle-class voters decided to vote for Trump (instead Trump got mostly well off GOP leaning voters).   So don't fault Ham,   instead blame all those that didn't vote at all,  especially Sanders supporters and those that voted for Obama in prior elections.    These left-of-center voters so disliked Clinton they couldn't even vote for her as the lesser evil.

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In another thread Bogie just placed a post that said Trump didn't win because middle-class voters decided to vote for Trump (instead Trump got mostly well off GOP leaning voters).   So don't fault Ham,   instead blame all those that didn't vote at all,  especially Sanders supporters and those that voted for Obama in prior elections.    These left-of-center voters so disliked Clinton they couldn't even vote for her as the lesser evil.

 

Working Class voters to be precise.  Which is surprising.  Though the article does say that while the Trump voters were well heeled that did not necessarily mean that they were well educated.  I'm surprised that more have not deserted him.  Some may have voted for him because Clinton was not a good alternative but why remain a supporter when he is proving to be an utter disaaaaaster?  If you have a brain, that is.

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Working Class voters to be precise.  Which is surprising.  Though the article does say that while the Trump voters were well heeled that did not necessarily mean that they were well educated.  I'm surprised that more have not deserted him.  Some may have voted for him because Clinton was not a good alternative but why remain a supporter when he is proving to be an utter disaaaaaster?  If you have a brain, that is.

 

My guess is that most remain a supporter because they generally support the overall GOP agenda of less regulation,  lower taxes,  cutting funds to what they perceive as left leaning fed agencies,  etc....    (what they view as the agenda, which is mostly hot-air).  

 

Also,  what does remaining a supporter or NOT, really accomplish?  I.e.  What practical gain is there at this time.    I don't see where low approval ratings are going to get Trump to change (he already has said polling results are fake news when they don't go his way).      

 

Low polling results will assist the Dems in taking over the House but they have to be low in June 2018,  not June 2017.

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My guess is that most remain a supporter because they generally support the overall GOP agenda of less regulation,  lower taxes,  cutting funds to what they perceive as left leaning fed agencies,  etc....    (what they view as the agenda, which is mostly hot-air).  

 

Also,  what does remaining a supporter or NOT, really accomplish?  I.e.  What practical gain is there at this time.    I don't see where low approval ratings are going to get Trump to change (he already has said polling results are fake news when they don't go his way).      

 

Low polling results will assist the Dems in taking over the House but they have to be low in June 2018,  not June 2017.

What article?

Searched other threads, but couldn't find Bogie's post to which you refer.

However, there were many factors but one was that many middle-class, working class, lower income that did vote for Trump were enough to push it over in the three states that changed the results. These people were likely to vote Democratic normally.

So, to me it goes back to Clinton Campaign and DNC's failure to recognize the issues.  As Bill said, "It's the economy stupid."

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What article?

 

Bogie posted this in another Trump thread.   There are so many of those I don't recall which one but it was posted a few hours ago.

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My guess is that most remain a supporter because they generally support the overall GOP agenda of less regulation,  lower taxes,  cutting funds to what they perceive as left leaning fed agencies,  etc....    (what they view as the agenda, which is mostly hot-air).  

 

Also,  what does remaining a supporter or NOT, really accomplish?  I.e.  What practical gain is there at this time.    I don't see where low approval ratings are going to get Trump to change (he already has said polling results are fake news when they don't go his way).      

 

Low polling results will assist the Dems in taking over the House but they have to be low in June 2018,  not June 2017.

 

From what I hear on the tube if his numbers get very very low his congressional support will disappear.  They will head for them thar hills.

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From what I hear on the tube if his numbers get very very low his congressional support will disappear.  They will head for them thar hills.

 

He barely has Congressional support now.   E.g.  the repeal and replace of the ACA just passed the House and I don't think it will be approved by the Senate.   His tax plan is DOA as well as his call for a trillion spending on Infrastructure (since their isn't the money for this because of his bogus tax plan).   

 

Anyhow,  you kind of answered your own question here;   A member of the GOP that favors much of the GOP agenda only hurt their own cause IF they tell a pollster they disapprove of Trump.   Therefore the selfish thing to do is to lie to the pollster.  

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Thanks,

Read it.  I think the article really means that we need to change how we pigeon hole people.  Being in the Deep South, I saw this same thing. I'm sure it is also nationwide to some extent.

There are lots of people who make over $50,000 per year and couples earning over $100,000 that consider themselves "working class."  Because they are.  I know lots of non-college graduates who earned far more than I did as a college graduate and not talking about the Bill Gates of the world.

We probably also need a new definition of working class as far as politics is concerned.

 

On the other hand, there was also that group of yellow dog Republican voters who would vote for any Republican.  Add in the extremists, evangelicals (mostly working class), etc.  It was a coalition with the "working class" whites being the tipping point.

 

This election was an aberration of all accepted knowledge.  That is why all the polls failed.

While Trump may not have gotten that many more "working class" voters, he got enough to swing the election in the states that normally would have gone to Clinton.  He probably got enough that would not have normally voted at all.

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From what I hear on the tube if his numbers get very very low his congressional support will disappear.  They will head for them thar hills.

Possible, but not about numbers.  For most Republicans in House and Senate it is about the next election.  It is particularly about the next primary, where they fear someone more extreme than them running against them.

Most House districts are safely Republican so their fear is someone running to their right.  

It is not about national polling data (which was wrong in the election), but rather about the people who show up to vote in the Republican primary.

We recently had a state senate election.  No Democrats at all, but six in GOP primary.  Run-off between a moderate who came in first, well respected Republican and an extremist Republican who came in 2nd.  The extremist won the run-off and is now a state senator.

 

For many Republicans in elective office, they have to support Trump because the people who vote in their elections expect them to support the Republican president.

Doesn't mean they won't be making back room deals, negotiating, etc., but the appearance will be they support Trump.

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Possible, but not about numbers.  For most Republicans in House and Senate it is about the next election.  It is particularly about the next primary, where they fear someone more extreme than them running against them.

Most House districts are safely Republican so their fear is someone running to their right.  

It is not about national polling data (which was wrong in the election), but rather about the people who show up to vote in the Republican primary.

We recently had a state senate election.  No Democrats at all, but six in GOP primary.  Run-off between a moderate who came in first, well respected Republican and an extremist Republican who came in 2nd.  The extremist won the run-off and is now a state senator.

 

For many Republicans in elective office, they have to support Trump because the people who vote in their elections expect them to support the Republican president.

Doesn't mean they won't be making back room deals, negotiating, etc., but the appearance will be they support Trump.

 

You're right about the primary;   A GOP member that knows that Trump is a loon (come on,  how could most not),   has to strike a fine balance.   Not dish on Trump to ensure they wins the GOP primary (even in a purple state),  but then not look like a full on Trump supporter \ enabler in the General election.     Wow that is some tight rope walking.    I'm hoping most fall down!  

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You're right about the primary;   A GOP member that knows that Trump is a loon (come on,  how could most not),   has to strike a fine balance.   Not dish on Trump to ensure they wins the GOP primary (even in a purple state),  but then not look like a full on Trump supporter \ enabler in the General election.     Wow that is some tight rope walking.    I'm hoping most fall down!  

I'm a pessimist probably because of where I live, but I see most of the problem as being the gerrymandered Congressional districts where once they get past the GOP primary, they are in.

Of course Senate races are different, but even then a lot of states are tending to be very Republican in voting.

Best hope is that the people who came out for Trump will just not be interested in the people running for other offices.  With all his many faults, Trump is a showman and rabble rouser extraordinaire.

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I'm a pessimist probably because of where I live, but I see most of the problem as being the gerrymandered Congressional districts where once they get past the GOP primary, they are in.

Of course Senate races are different, but even then a lot of states are tending to be very Republican in voting.

Best hope is that the people who came out for Trump will just not be interested in the people running for other offices.  With all his many faults, Trump is a showman and rabble rouser extraordinaire.

 

I really don't agree with 'the people who came out for Trump' POV which implies these people like Trump.   I guess that is the main point I have been trying to make today.   These people voted for Trump,  but they are NOT Trump supporters.  Most see Trump's many warts.   Therefore the fact that Trump is a complete failure and clueless will NOT impact how GOP members and independents vote in the mid-term.   They have higher voter turnout than Dems and progressives in mid-term elections and if they continue to do so the Dems will NOT unseat a sitting GOP House member in 2018. 

 

Instead the Dems need to use Trump to make major increases in their mid-term voter turnout.    Here in So Cal there are 4 GOP House seats that the Dems are targeting and based on polling data one seat is listed as toss up,  two as just leaning GOP and the other solid for the GOP.     That is progress for the Dems in these districts (which based on voter registration have a GOP majority).  

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The very liberal Dianne Feinstein admitted they haven't found squat. 

Actually, the venerable Ms. Feinstein is not very liberal. She's ranked #37. She veers toward being a more moderate Democrat. (Her new colleague in the Senate, Ms. Harris, is ranked #1).

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Actually, the venerable Ms. Feinstein is not very liberal. She's ranked #37. She veers toward being a more moderate Democrat. (Her new colleague in the Senate, Ms. Harris, is ranked #1).

 

Wow.   Living in CA I knew Harris was very liberal but not that she would be ranked #1 in the entire Senate.    Some Dem leaders are saying she is the future of the party.     I guess Harris can take the place of Sanders.

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Wow.   Living in CA I knew Harris was very liberal but not that she would be ranked #1 in the entire Senate.    Some Dem leaders are saying she is the future of the party.     I guess Harris can take the place of Sanders.

 

I think maybe Harris has less of a record, being so new, so perhaps time will change her status, after she has more of a body of work.

 

http://progressivepunch.org/scores.htm?house=senate

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