ken123

Overrated Noir

34 posts in this topic

Hey, ChiO -- I'm with you regarding Laura , but I'm going to go back to it soon for the fourth time and see if it's me or them.

 

*Laura* really runs hot and cold with noir fans. I've found that many guys tend to dismiss the film and that many women tend to like it a lot. *Laura* works on my being, mainly because I find myself turning into Mark McPherson (Dana Andrews). I'm longing for Laura (Gene Tierney). The scene where McPherson falls asleep in Laura's apartment works me over. I love the dark shadows and the mesmerizing rain. Straight noir.

 

If one does not let the sensuality of *Laura* enter their system, they will most likely find the film to be overrated. I also believe the presence of two rather effeminate men causes guys to reject the film. If Clifton Webb and Vincent Price were played by more masculine-types, I think some men would view the film differently.

 

*Laura* will always have a place in my heart because it's the film that introduced me to Gene Tierney. Just as Laura walked into Mark McPherson's life, Gene walked into mine. It's been a beautiful love affair since that day.

 

You like comedy? It has some very funny dialog. You like melodrama? Got it. Musicals? Very amusing song & dance. War movies? Got some of that. Political intrigue? Sure. Romance? Yep. Straight drama? Oh, yeah. Film noir? Absolutely. I cannot think of another movie that has aspects of so many types of film and holds them together seamlessly as Citizen Kane .

 

That was a very interesting take. I never thought of Kane that way.

 

Citizen Kane's supporters generally speak highly of the film's brilliant visuals and innovative camerawork. It's the aesthetics that capture the imagination of its loyal followers. If the atmosphere of the film does not reach a viewer, they will most likely walk away with the feeling of, "what the heck is the big deal?" I believe this to be the most popular refrain with Kane. Kane is a directorial masterpiece but audiences don't always pick up on this. They are used to focusing on story and performance more than anything.

 

So do I believe that those who hail *Citizen Kane* as the greatest film ever know more than the others? Heck no. It's all about preference. I'm in awe of Kane. Others are in awe of *The Wizard of Oz* or *Gone with the Wind*. Whatever boats your float. As I've said on this board a few times, I don't mind it when others do not like the films I like. If someone says Hitch is overrated... oh, well. If someone says *Citizen Kane* is overrated... no biggie. Heck, DSClassic has already filled some of my favorite noirs with bullets but I actually found that to be entertaining.

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I like Laura because it has so many sub-plots going on at the same time. I enjoy that. Such as when Dana Andrews thinks that Laura might be the guilty person, but he's not sure, but he starts to love her, but he's a cop so he wants to find out the truth, but he's not sure, etc. The plots are intricate enough so that the film always seems fresh and new to me.

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Hey, Dobbsy. Glad to see you in the noir forum.

 

Such as when Dana Andrews thinks that Laura might be the guilty person, but he's not sure, but he starts to love her, but he's a cop so he wants to find out the truth, but he's not sure, etc.

 

I like that description. When love (infatuation) mixes with duty, complications arise, especially when the woman in question is Gene Tierney.

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[FrankGrimes] -- <>

 

I can't disagree. As a college philosphy prof of mine (yes, it was post-Socrates) said: "There are very few Truths. Everything else is a trivial matter of taste...and there's no accounting for taste." Or, as Johnny Clay put it more succinctly, "Eh, what's the difference."

 

With so many films lost, and so many others unseen, "best" and "greatest" is a matter of taste, access, and the cultural prism we watch the movies through. That's why I try to stick to "favorite".

 

P.S. *Citizen Kane* is the greatest film ever made. So there.

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Excellent thread.  Here are my top most overrated film noirs:

 

1. The Maltese Falcon.  I STILL don't know what was going on in that script.   A bunch of cigarette smoking, drinking and super FAST dialogue.

2. The Big Sleep.  See above.  I read that even the actors didn't know what was going on.

3. Citizen Kane.  It was ok. I'm not a expert in filmmaking so I don't know anything about the camera angles that were used.

4. A Streetcar Named Desire.  "Stella!".  That just irritates me along with the rest of that screenplay., lol.

5. Chinatown. It ok but again, I found it kinda boring.  I like John Huston films though.

honorable mention:

The Third Man.  To me, Orson Welles and his films are overrated in general. I guess you have to know the ART of filmmaking to appreciate him. The only thing he did that I really liked is The Lady from Shanghai.  The Third Man is boring to me. Gorgeous to look at but boring plot. I know he didn't direct this but the film is famous partially because of him.

Casablanca.  It put me to sleep. I will watch it again one day to see if I missed something.

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Overrated in my opinion:

The Maltese Falcon

The Big Sleep

By the way, I'm not convinced that Citizen Kane and Casablanca count as noirs, but yes, I find both to be overrated.

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'In a Lonely Place'. Much to my nausea and regret, saw it on the big screen. My god. What listless, limp, reeking, offal. I wish I could rinse my brain out after viewing this putrid carcass. Utterly clownish unconvincing drivel and rot. Almost hilarious in the degree of how incompetent it was.

  • Haha 1

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I forget where I saw it, but some major list-making entity (like the UK Guardian, BFI, Sight-&-Sound, or some other organ like that where editors spend time making up lists) anyway I was both surprised and pleased to see this very recent modern-day list of greatest detective films from their site and 'Chinatown' not only topped the list; but the reviewers raved about it. Heaped paeans upon it. Called it 'far and away the best', called it the 'best of all time', etc. Really heart-warming. Will try to dig up the link and post it.

 

edit: ah yes here it is

https://tinyurl.com/ybtyfdly

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3 hours ago, Sgt_Markoff said:

I forget where I saw it, but some major list-making entity (like the UK Guardian, BFI, Sight-&-Sound, or some other organ like that where editors spend time making up lists) anyway I was both surprised and pleased to see this very recent modern-day list of greatest detective films from their site and 'Chinatown' not only topped the list; but the reviewers raved about it. Heaped paeans upon it. Called it 'far and away the best', called it the 'best of all time', etc. Really heart-warming. Will try to dig up the link and post it.

 

edit: ah yes here it is

https://tinyurl.com/ybtyfdly

It's more of a P.I. flick than a Noir

Comparatively to Classic Films Noir it was flooded with light with way, way too many day shots. First and foremost it's a Private Eye Film that is more of a Film Soleil those sun baked, filled with light, desert/tropical Noir/Neo Noirs. 

Fits in with Ace In The Hole, Bad Day At Black Rock, Inferno, Desert Fury, The Scarf, The Hitch-Hiker, Jeopardy, Rage, Delusion, Kill Me Again, Night Moves, To Live and Die in L.A., The Hot Spot, Fargo, Mulholland Falls, Siesta, Private Property, No Country for Old Men, Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Garcia, The Wrong Man (1993) even Detour if you think about it.

So I'd say it was a PI film first and foremost, its only nod to the dark side is with the revelation at the very end. On the flip side Farewell My Lovely (1975) is a far more Noir Private Eye film.

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