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mr6666

America's Gun Culture...

265 posts in this topic

‘There’s a story behind why we shoot’  

 

Two young Chicagoans talk about why they picked up a gun, and how it changed their lives....

 

“When people ask me, ‘Why do people ****?’ — it’s like, think about it like this: Police, school and basically society does not accept certain people. They choose who they want,” Jaime said.

 

“Gangs don’t do that. They accept anybody. Anybody. It don’t matter if you’re geeky or something. They’re gonna accept you.”....

 

".......Both Alex and Jaime said they joined gangs because they became friends with older gang members who offered a sense of community and acceptance. Soon their responsibilities in the gangs grew, and both said they were handed guns and told to shoot rivals.

 

Their stories illustrate why some kids join gangs and pick up guns......

 

http://interactive.wbez.org/everyotherhour/why-shoot/

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Some, yeah.  But not all.  And that's problematic because many look at those and wrongly figure ti's true for ALL of 'em and try a "one size fits all" solution to the  problem that's doomed to fail from the offset.  And any plan or idea that  might work would take a lot longer to show favorable results than many are wiling to wait and so get scrapped off the bat.

 

 

Sepiatone

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Mike RosenbergVerified account @ByRosenberg

 
 
 
 

Las Vegas is the 273rd mass shooting (4+ people shot) in America this year.

We're 273 days into the year http://www.gunviolencearchive.org/reports/mass-shooting 

 
12:37 AM - 2 Oct 2017
 
 
Michael Ian BlackVerified account @michaelianblack 6h6 hours ago
 
 

The NRA is a terrorist organization. There's no other way to say it.

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"Josh Abbot Band guitarist Caleb Keeter took to Twitter Monday to announce that he was no longer a guns right activist. His band performed at the Route 91 Harvest Festival on the Las Vegas strip Sunday night when the concerts were cut short by a gunmen. Latest reports indicate that 58 people were killed and 515 were hurt.

 

The experience apparently forced Keeter to flip his stance on the 2nd Amendment.

 

"I've been a proponent of the 2nd Amendment my entire life," he wrote in a statement posted on Twitter. "Until the events of last night. I cannot express how wrong I was. We actually have members of our crew with [license to carry], and legal firearms on the bus.

They were useless."...

 

"A small group (or one man) laid waste to a city with dedicated, fearless police officers desperately trying to help, because of access to an insane amount of fire power.

 

"Enough is enough," he added...

 

https://www.salon.com/2017/10/02/las-vegas-survivor-renounces-stance-on-guns-after-shooting/

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Myth vs. Fact: Violence and Mental Health -   A Q&A with an expert who studies the relationship between mental illness and violence.

 

 

".....We need to think of violence itself as a communicable disease. We have kids growing up exposed to terrible trauma. We did a study some years ago, looking at [violence risk] among people with serious mental illness.

The three risk factors we found were most important: first, a history of violent victimization early in life, second, substance abuse, and the third is exposure to violence in the environment around you. People who had none of those risk factors ― even with bipolar disorder and schizophrenia ― had very low rates of violent behavior.....

 

Most of our peer high-income countries can take a different approach. They can say, it's just too dangerous for someone to have a personal handgun for their own protection. They broadly limit legal access to guns. That's why they have lower homicide rates.

What we try to do is keep the guns out of the hands of dangerous people, and that's hard, because it's hard to predict, and we have almost more guns than people.....

 

.... if we were to build a monument to commemorate all the people who died as a result of a gunshot in the last 10 years, we would need a monument five times bigger than the Vietnam Memorial.....

 

https://www.propublica.org/article/myth-vs-fact-violence-and-mental-health?utm_campaign=sprout&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&utm_content=1506960229

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Internet pounds NRA’s silence after Las Vegas massacre: ‘They have to clean the blood off their hands first’.....

 

 

Andrea Cabral @criticalthawt

Worst mass shooting in US history. We are a global anomaly because our safety has been sold to the NRA and they make gun policy in America.

 

6:30 AM - Oct 2, 2017

 

Parth Dave @Parth_Dave

I can't wait for the GOP to start tweeting out thoughts and prayers while simultaneously tying to make gun purchases easier. #VegasShooting

 

John Hergt @natureofthings7

Another of the "Well regulate militia" and one of the NRA's former "Good Guys with a gun" falls out of line in Las Vegas

 

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Nevada has some of America’s loosest gun control laws -

 

"....Nevada state law does not require residents to obtain a purchasing permit, register or license for either handguns or rifles and shotguns, according to the National Rifle Association's website.

The NRA website also says that you don't need a permit in order to carry rifles and shotguns, although one is required in order to carry a handgun.

Nevada also does not impose a mandatory waiting period before allowing residents to purchase a firearm, and the BBC reports that there is no magazine capacity limit for assault rifles....

 

https://www.salon.com/2017/10/02/nevada-has-some-of-americas-loosest-gun-control-laws/

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Internet pounds NRA’s silence after Las Vegas massacre: ‘They have to clean the blood off their hands first’.....

 

 

Andrea Cabral @criticalthawt

Worst mass shooting in US history. We are a global anomaly because our safety has been sold to the NRA and they make gun policy in America.

 

6:30 AM - Oct 2, 2017

 

Parth Dave @Parth_Dave

I can't wait for the GOP to start tweeting out thoughts and prayers while simultaneously tying to make gun purchases easier. #VegasShooting

 

John Hergt @natureofthings7

Another of the "Well regulate militia" and one of the NRA's former "Good Guys with a gun" falls out of line in Las Vegas

 

well, the problem is more traditional minded americans who believe in the 2nd amendment feel that liberals are out to invalidate the 2nd amendment totally. you either recognize that the framers wanted no infringement of access to guns or you don't. alotta americans for decades now sense significant ambiguity from liberals on that point.

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well, the problem is more traditional minded americans who believe in the 2nd amendment feel that liberals are out to invalidate the 2nd amendment totally. you either recognize that the framers wanted no infringement of access to guns or you don't. alotta americans for decades now sense significant ambiguity from liberals on that point.

 

Aaah, "ambiguity" you say, do ya Nip ol' boy?!

 

Isn't that what you hardliner Righties pretty much always call anything that can't be framed in simpleminded little black and white terms?

 

(...like, say, in the case JUST like this...the idea that any gun control measures could at all be based on and within thoughtful and reasonable perimeters, and which would NOT include that oh so black and white mentality such as "that "bad ol' gov'ment is gonna take all our guns aways from us if'n and once they get their foot in the door") 

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This carnage is not what the Founders intended-

 

"The Las Vegas shooter, the Sandy Hook shooter, and one after another on the whole bloody list of shooters possessed weapons never intended for casual ownership.

 

They were not part of a National Guard, today’s well-regulated militia, which was what the Founding Fathers had in mind in 18th-century America when they created Amendment II with clear and plain language:

“A well-regulated Militia, being necessary to the defense of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed.”

 

That’s how it was written, that’s how it should be read..........

 

https://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/letters/2017/10/02/this-carnage-not-what-founders-intended/PKTun2p3Br7ni09WmR08VM/story.html

 

 

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This carnage is not what the Founders intended-

 

"The Las Vegas shooter, the Sandy Hook shooter, and one after another on the whole bloody list of shooters possessed weapons never intended for casual ownership.

 

They were not part of a National Guard, today’s well-regulated militia, which was what the Founding Fathers had in mind in 18th-century America when they created Amendment II with clear and plain language:

“A well-regulated Militia, being necessary to the defense of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed.”

 

That’s how it was written, that’s how it should be read..........

 

 

 

Wow,  the bodies aren't even cool and you folks (on both sides)  just have to make your political points.

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Wow,  the bodies aren't even cool and you folks (on both sides)  just have to make your political points.

 

Yep, that's RIGHT!!!!!!

 

BUT, and in my defense, I didn't KNOW there is now evidently some kind of "established and recognized national grieving period and/or protocol" after these ONGOING and seemingly NEVER ENDING sorts of carnage have taken place in our country and before people are then "allowed" to offer up their collective exasperation with said ONGOING and seemingly NEVER ENDING carnage and then begin offering up their opinion as to the ROOT CAUSES of them.

 

And so tell me. When exactly WILL the "bodies be cold enough" to begin the next part of this ONGOING and seemingly NEVER ENDING process?

 

(...in your opinion, of course...or maybe as prescribed according to this new and evidently unknown to me "established and recognized national grieving period and/or protocol")

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Yep, that's RIGHT!!!!!!

 

BUT, and in my defense, I didn't KNOW there is now evidently some kind of "established and recognized national grieving period and/or protocol" after these ONGOING and seemingly NEVER ENDING sorts of carnage have taken place in our country and before people are then "allowed" to offer up their collective exasperation with said ONGOING and seemingly NEVER ENDING carnage and then begin offering up their opinion as to the ROOT CAUSES of them.

 

And so tell me. When exactly WILL the "bodies be cold enough" to begin the next part of this ONGOING and seemingly NEVER ENDING process?

 

(...in your opinion, of course...or maybe as prescribed according to this new and evidently unknown to me "established and recognized national grieving period and/or protocol")

 

I have always recommended waiting until after the funerals for political discussions related to a mass shooting to take place.

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I have always recommended waiting until after the funerals for political discussions related to a mass shooting to take place.

 

And by that time the issue is conveniently forgotten or ignored.  What's with automatic weapons being offered to the general public?  It's insane.

And all this guff about we need weapons in case we need to rise up against our own government.  What was the D.C. baseball shooter doing but rising up against the government.  And everyone - everyone has conceded that was insane.  So forget about that stupid argument about protecting yourself from your own government. This isn't 1776!  And they have bigger weapons now anyway.

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And by that time the issue is conveniently forgotten or ignored.  What's with automatic weapons being offered to the general public?  It's insane.

And all this guff about we need weapons in case we need to rise up against our own government.  What was the D.C. baseball shooter doing but rising up against the government.  And everyone - everyone has conceded that was insane.  So forget about that stupid argument about protecting yourself from your own government. This isn't 1776!  And they have bigger weapons now anyway.

 

Additional gun control laws will be forgotten or ignored,  period.   

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Additional gun control laws will be forgotten or ignored,  period.   

 

That's a sad statement, but one that I agree with. In fact, despite this being the biggest such shooting massacre yet, I wouldn't be surprised if the conversation disappeared even faster than usual. With Big Donnie in the White House, Mitch the Turtle in the Senate, and Paul "Eddie Munster" Ryan in the House, any meaningful gun legislation is a non-starter. I expect the silencer bill to pass as well.

 

Bill O'Reilly has been vilified for saying that this shooting was the "price of freedom". I'm sure he's coming at this from a different direction than I am, but I wholeheartedly agree with the statement, in that as long as Americans want their holy Second Amendment untouched in any way, shape or form, these shootings will continue to happen, and probably get worse, too. As far as we know, this man purchased guns legally, and was under no psych treatment, and had no record. As long as the gun laws stay the same, his kind of spree killer will continue unabated. 

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And by that time the issue is conveniently forgotten or ignored.  What's with automatic weapons being offered to the general public?  It's insane.

And all this guff about we need weapons in case we need to rise up against our own government.  What was the D.C. baseball shooter doing but rising up against the government.  And everyone - everyone has conceded that was insane.  So forget about that stupid argument about protecting yourself from your own government. This isn't 1776!  And they have bigger weapons now anyway.

 

Well, first of all Bogie, with you being a Canadian, you might have forgotten that this country was born via the musket and a "well regulated militia". And so with that in mind, you probably can't see how Americans have historically been conditioned to believe that their freedoms ultimately all come courtesy from the barrel of a gun. ;)

 

And secondly, and as Lawrence has just so masterfully conveyed to James, unless and until the majority of my country's citizenry begin to do the unthinkable and actually being questioning the logic of one of the very precepts that our "oh so infallible" framers placed within our Bill of Rights, these sorts of horrific episodes will most likely continue unabated for years and years and years to come.

 

But then again, and since the NRA has become such a political force in this country the last few decades and have so successfully fought tooth and nail against any and all rational gun control measures, and in the interim a much higher proliferation of firearms have been acquired by this country's citizenry, this of course would almost make ANY future rational gun control measures a case of "closing the barn door after the horse has bolted". 

 

(...and so, and as I mentioned in that "Vegas Massacre" thread, what's going to be YOUR guess as to when the next American lone mass shooter "tops" this Vegas shooter's "new record" in that little pool I've started over there?...you can't take June 12, 2018...I've already taken that one, ol' buddy)

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Sad.  There is such a fervour to guard against terrorism from abroad at the moment but no will to stop mass murder within your own country.  Of course money is at the heart of it.  But shoudn't there be an effort to stop supporting politicians who take money from the NRA?

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Sad.  There is such a fervour to guard against terrorism from abroad at the moment but no will to stop mass murder within your own country.  Of course money is at the heart of it.  But shoudn't there be an effort to stop supporting politicians who take money from the NRA?

 

OH NO, Bogie!

 

Ya see, THEY'RE the ONLY politicos who "love this country", don't you know?!

 

Yep, just ask some of our more conservative-minded friends around here. THEY'LL tell ya THAT!

 

(...heck, in fact, I recall our friend MovieMadness saying this very sort'a thing just the other day in one of these threads around here, dude!) 

 

LOL

 

;)

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