Sign in to follow this  
Sam Mac

Please cut the politics

104 posts in this topic

I just heard your announcer (what's his name? Benyamin Munkenstein, or something like that) try to whitewash the communists who were "blacklisted" in Hollywood in the 1940s, in his introduction to a movie called "Tender Comrade."  Please cut the politics from TCM.  We do not need to hear Munkenstein's prejudiced opinion about a fellow tribal member.  We all know what these "blacklisted" Hollywood person were and we all know how tribal-controlled Hollywood, and their vast media machine, tried to make them look like victims, all wiithout having to hear this person's opinions. Please cut the politics and don't be involved in partisan opinions that will offend your audience. Thank you.

  • Haha 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I know you're just a damn troll, but I have some time to waste on you.  Try cutting your own politics.  And if you don't have the ability or desire to show Ben Mankiewicz the simple courtesy of writing his name correctly (and, yes, I pick up on your not-so-subtle anti-semitism), just refrain from posting.

  • Like 6
  • Thanks 6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

While I didn't see Ben Mankiewicz's introduction to Tender Comrade (though I have seen the film he was introducing), how can one discuss the Hollywood Blacklist without mentioning politics? It was these people's alleged political ties that started the Blacklist in the first place.  In this case, wouldn't mentioning politics be appropriate? 

And while some of these people were proven to have Communist ties, others were just accused with no solid proof and their careers suffered just as much as those who were actual Communists.

  • Like 6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, slaytonf said:

So what if they were Communists?  Like they were a threat.

Exactly.  What were they going to do? Write a screenplay to a film? Write a book? 

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Surely, in the case of Hollywood celebrities, their "belief" in communism was more idealistic than anything else.  They probably looked at it in the economic sense, communism being originally a system of economics and NOT a political or governing system, and went with it from there.  You know....the "share the wealth" thing.  Nothing in it's original conception has anything to do with totalitarianism or the eschewing of religion or any kind of subjugation.  Essentially, it's quite possible to have BOTH a democratic and free society, AND a communistic system of economics.  What was probably disliked about it by "bigwig" Washington types was the fact that would mean that the rich DON'T get richer, and the poor don't get poorer .  That the Russians fouled up what communism actually IS was what created the big brou-ha and "red scare" in this country.  And Hollywood types might have thought this angle might have made them look NOT so snobbish and then took to it with that in mind.

 

Sepiatone 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If the aim of the Newbie was to demonstrate how ignorant and bigoted a person can be in 100 words or less...HE/SHE SUCCEEDED!

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, slaytonf said:

I know you're just a damn troll, but I have some time to waste on you.  Try cutting your own politics.  And if you don't have the ability or desire to show Ben Mankiewicz the simple courtesy of writing his name correctly (and, yes, I pick up on your not-so-subtle anti-semitism), just refrain from posting.

Anyone who doesn't know Ben Mankiewicz's name from his granddaddy Herman writing "Citizen Kane", or his great-uncle Joe writing "Cleopatra", doesn't even deserve to be trolling a classic-movie board.

  • Like 4
  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you look at the troll's only other post, it was in one of the Robert Osborne memorial threads, in which this knucklehead made the same "Munkenstein" joke (?). I always wonder with these kinds of inflammatory trolls if the person is just a passing idiot or one of our (semi)regulars posting from a dummy account. It sounds a lot like one particular poster, one who most likely would be too cowardly to attempt such comments under their regular account.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, LawrenceA said:

If you look at the troll's only other post, it was in one of the Robert Osborne memorial threads, in which this knucklehead made the same "Munkenstein" joke (?). I always wonder with these kinds of inflammatory trolls if the person is just a passing idiot or one of our (semi)regulars posting from a dummy account. It sounds a lot like one particular poster, one who most likely would be too cowardly to attempt such comments under their regular account.

Generally, like the old vaudeville performer who could play "Old Kentucky Home" on a bicycle pump, most aspiring trolls start out with ONE easy-button shock-gag they thought up, and see where they could travel on the net to take it for a buck.  Pressed for an encore, they...just figure out ways to do the joke again, and try and keep it fresh for anyone who hasn't heard it yet.

They don't exactly win their second-week comebacks on "America's Got Talented Trolls".  :rolleyes:

14 hours ago, speedracer5 said:

Exactly.  What were they going to do? Write a screenplay to a film? Write a book? 

And now the educational portion of the thread, for actual board readers:

If you've seen the 1996 documentary Red Hollywood, about the Hollywood 10 and their contribution to 30's-50's movies (and the first person to say "No, but I saw Hail Caesar!" gets hit :P ), the "Leftwing Communist screenwriter community" that rose out of the 30's "Capitalism has failed and people need jobs!" Depression was...by no means a threat.  In fact, if they were noticed at all back then, they only get quaint giggles today.  As Billy Wilder was quoted, "Of the Ten, two were talented, the rest were just unfriendly".

In clips, you can see the Ten trying to educate the Masses with "The unconquerable spirit of the Average Working Man!", "Equality for women!"  "Fighting fascism around the world!", "That crazy corporate-office rat-race to get a promotion!" and "Rich people are corrupt, decadent and crazy!"  Unfortunately, it was the Depression and WWII, and everybody else happened to be writing that too....Ooo, the bold political shock!!  Not to mention, putting Katherine Hepburn in an "emancipated" role like her Tracy/Hepburn comedies wasn't exactly soapboxing.  We do see one Hollywood wartime pro-Stalin "Everything's up-to-date in Moscow City" film, but now it just seems cute and old-movie outdated, considering how it later turned out everything wasn't.  As one put it years later, "Maybe we were just too naive."

  • Thanks 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Gotta say while Marx's thoughts on Economics would surely prove to be a dead end philosophy, I STILL say that whole "religion...is the opium of the people" thing of his is sure proving to be quite insightful. ;)

(...betcha "Benyamin Munkenstein" will never have the balls to say THIS on one of his intro or out-tros, huh!)

LOL

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Dargo said:

Gotta say while Marx's thoughts on Economics would surely prove to be a dead end philosophy, I STILL say that whole "religion...is the opium of the people" thing of his is sure proving to be quite insightful. ;)

Yeah, until Bill Maher made a pig's-breakfast out of that one and ruined that too...  :lol:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, EricJ said:

Yeah, until Bill Maher made a pig's-breakfast out of that one and spoiled that too...  :lol:

Ya know Eric, this Agnostic here STILL hasn't ever gotten around to watching Maher's RELIGUOUS.

(...probably because I've always felt he would be, if you'll pardon the expression here, "preaching to the choir" in my case)

;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, slaytonf said:

So what if they were Communists?  Like they were a threat.

Leni Riefenstahl shouldn't have been blacklisted either.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How can you cut politics from what was a political situation in the first place???

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, EricJ said:

... As Billy Wilder was quoted, "Of the Ten, two were talented, the rest were just unfriendly". ...

I've always wondered which two of the Ten that Wilder was referring to in his very witty remark.  (In case anyone doesn't know, the joke comes from the alternative name for the Hollywood Ten: the "Unfriendly Ten.")  According to Wikipedia, the Ten were:

  • Alvah Bessie, screenwriter (Objective, Burma!)
  • Herbert Biberman, screenwriter and director (Meet Nero Wolfe, New Orleans)
  • Lester Cole, screenwriter (Objective, Burma!, The Romance of Rosy Ridge)
  • Edward Dmytryk, director (Murder My Sweet, Crossfire, The Caine Mutiny)
  • Ring Lardner Jr., screenwriter (Woman of the Year, The Cincinnati Kid, M*A*S*H)
  • John Howard Lawson, screenwriter (Algiers, Action in the North Atlantic)
  • Albert Maltz, screenwriter (This Gun for Hire, The House I Live In, The Naked City)
  • Samuel Ornitz, screenwriter (One Man's Journey)
  • Adrian Scott, producer and screenwriter (Murder My Sweet, Crossfire)
  • Dalton Trumbo, screenwriter (Kitty Foyle, Bill of Divorcement, Roman Holiday, Spartacus, Exodus)

I've never heard a definitive answer from Wilder himself.  I'd guess he meant that the more talented ones were Dalton Trumbo and Ring Lardner Jr., based on their credits.  But Edward Dmytryk, who ended up testifying before HUAC after he served prison time for contempt of Congress with the other members of the Ten, also had a pretty good set of credits.

Has anyone heard who the Talented Two were, according to Billy Wilder?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, BingFan said:

I've always wondered which two of the Ten that Wilder was referring to in his very witty remark.  (In case anyone doesn't know, the joke comes from the alternative name for the Hollywood Ten: the "Unfriendly Ten.")  According to Wikipedia, the Ten were:

  • Alvah Bessie, screenwriter (Objective, Burma!)
  • Herbert Biberman, screenwriter and director (Meet Nero Wolfe, New Orleans)
  • Lester Cole, screenwriter (Objective, Burma!, The Romance of Rosy Ridge)
  • Edward Dmytryk, director (Murder My Sweet, Crossfire, The Caine Mutiny)
  • Ring Lardner Jr., screenwriter (Woman of the Year, The Cincinnati Kid, M*A*S*H)
  • John Howard Lawson, screenwriter (Algiers, Action in the North Atlantic)
  • Albert Maltz, screenwriter (This Gun for Hire, The House I Live In, The Naked City)
  • Samuel Ornitz, screenwriter (One Man's Journey)
  • Adrian Scott, producer and screenwriter (Murder My Sweet, Crossfire)
  • Dalton Trumbo, screenwriter (Kitty Foyle, Bill of Divorcement, Roman Holiday, Spartacus, Exodus)

I've never heard a definitive answer from Wilder himself.  I'd guess he meant that the more talented ones were Dalton Trumbo and Ring Lardner Jr., based on their credits.  But Edward Dmytryk, who ended up testifying before HUAC after he served prison time for contempt of Congress with the other members of the Ten, also had a pretty good set of credits.

Has anyone heard who the Talented Two were, according to Billy Wilder?

While I too have heard that famous line of Wilder's, I've wondered about this myself, BF.

Those two you mentioned would've been my guess also.

(...and for the very reason you gave)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Hibi said:

I doubt it was meant literally , but you've provided 2 good guesses!

Now that you mention it, you may be right -- Wilder's remark sounds like a joke that was too good to pass up, even if he didn't mean it literally.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
54 minutes ago, Hibi said:

Yeah, but she had a hard time finding work.

Well, maybe that's the price one plays after making a "documentary" like TRIUMPH OF THE WILL, and where all aspects of a political movement aren't thoroughly presented or examined.

YOU know, like how she "so conveniently" left out the part about her subject's many many victims during his climb to power.

Uh-huh, maybe people began to realize she wasn't as good a "clear-eyed documentary" filmmaker as they first thought.

(...and even though she DID seem to have a way with a camera, huh) 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, I know. I saw that docu TCM ran on her some years ago in her later years. It was interesting. She was doing documentaries on sealife. I feel conflicted about her. In some ways she got off easy, but at the same time she did pay a price for her glorification of Hitler...........

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Hibi said:

Yeah, I know. I saw that docu TCM ran on her some years ago in her later years. It was interesting. She was doing documentaries on sealife. I feel conflicted about her. In some ways she got off easy, but at the same time she did pay a price for her glorification of Hitler...........

The Wonderful, Horrible Life of Leni Riefenstahl (1993), for those who want to look it up on disk--

And yes, most artists knew that with the state hiring artists for their own purposes, it was either a once-in-a-lifetime job opportunity if you went with the party line, or a quick midnight plane out of the country if you didn't.

Not like the naive Hollywood screenwriters, which was the reverse, where they thought they could slip a few private soapboxes into their paid contract jobs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

New Members:

Register Here

Learn more about the new message boards:

FAQ

Having problems?

Contact Us