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Sam Mac

Please cut the politics

104 posts in this topic

It gets to be sort of a paradox with this issue.  At the GM plant in which I worked, many of the "good ol' boys" there hated the guys who'd be outside the plant trying to sell communist publications, feeling those guys were "Pinko commie rats", while at the same time being rabidly pro union, not fully realizing that labor unions were originally a communist conception.  

Which is to say, if not for communism, there wouldn't be any "labor unions". ;)

A friend of mine however, decided to have some fun with it all, telling one of the vendors, "If you worked in a factory, you wouldn't have to sell newspapers for a living." :D  And another thing.....

Their papers were all about how "racist" GM was, and our plant included, totally ignoring that the plant had a payroll of 70+% black employees.  In fact, THREE of the first four  foremen I worked for were black.  Plus two black superintendents (position above foreman).

Sepiatone

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The big difference between Nazism and Communism is that nobody says "real Nazism" has never been tried.

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1 hour ago, Sepiatone said:

It gets to be sort of a paradox with this issue.  At the GM plant in which I worked, many of the "good ol' boys" there hated the guys who'd be outside the plant trying to sell communist publications, feeling those guys were "Pinko commie rats", while at the same time being rabidly pro union, not fully realizing that labor unions were originally a communist conception.  

Which is to say, if not for communism, there wouldn't be any "labor unions". ;)

A friend of mine however, decided to have some fun with it all, telling one of the vendors, "If you worked in a factory, you wouldn't have to sell newspapers for a living." :D  And another thing.....

Their papers were all about how "racist" GM was, and our plant included, totally ignoring that the plant had a payroll of 70+% black employees.  In fact, THREE of the first four  foremen I worked for were black.  Plus two black superintendents (position above foreman).

Sepiatone

Actually the creation of labor unions goes back to the 18th century and the rise of the Industrial Revolution in Europe. There were unions in US at time of the Revolution and earlier. The communists merely saw appealing to unions as one method of gaining power. 

The unions were created to protect workers and had absolutely nothing to do with communism.  In fact, many sources state the fall of the American middle class (not to mention working class) can be linked to the fall of union membership.

I am not now nor have I ever been a member of or associated with any union.

As for your "70+% black employees," I find that hard to believe, even in just one GM plant.  Closest reference I could find in a quick search was 14% of total automotive force in 2008 was black.  Where was the plant, what did it produce and how many total employees.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/30/business/30detroit.html

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3 hours ago, TheCid said:

...I am not now nor have I ever been a member of or associated with any union...

 

I was when I worked in the airline industry, and the only time in my life I would go against that personal little rule of mine...that whole thing about "never joining any group which would accept me as a member".

;)

(...well, unless ya wanna also include my "membership" around here anyway, and then I suppose this would be the second time I'd go against that rule)

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I meant to write something about this the other night, but I've had issues with the new board software I'm just now resolving.  To OP, I think the point is, the age of HUAC just had Americans becoming what they claim they hated while they fought "the enemy" of the time, Communism.  Blacklists, people being told they shouldn't be seen in public with folks who had become "unpersons" due to the blacklists because they might be considered guilty by association, etc seemed to all be stunts out of the Soviet playbook. Everyone at the time seemed to conveniently forget that all during WWII the Russians were being played up to be friendly. After my grandmother passed away in 1982, I was going through her old books and found something that had been printed during WWII talking about what a great guy Stalin was. The  book talks about the sudden tragic death of Stalin's first wife, when common knowledge is that he probably poisoned her. Also see the film "The North Star", made during WWII, in which the Soviet youth are happy healthy comrades living in a workers' paradise until Hitler comes along. The truth is if the Nazis had just patted the Russians on the head and said that from now on Hitler was the new czar, the Russians would have eagerly turned on Stalin and he would have died ala Mussolini. Plus the Great Depression caused many to attend some Communist meetings in the 30s, because when 25% of the American people were out of work, savings were lost through uninsured banks,  and there was zero social safety net, you can't exactly say that capitalism was working as advertised.  Just my two cents.

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22 hours ago, TheCid said:

 

As for your "70+% black employees," I find that hard to believe, even in just one GM plant.  Closest reference I could find in a quick search was 14% of total automotive force in 2008 was black.  Where was the plant, what did it produce and how many total employees.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/30/business/30detroit.html

It was the old Cadillac "main" plant that used to be located on Clark street in Detroit.  I hired in on Nov. 11, 1971 (46 years ago yesterday, matter of fact) And the 70+% was mainly a "guesstemate" based on personal observation.  I noticed FAR less white faces when looking around over the years.  And I never knew how many total employees worked there.  I was too busy earning a living. ;)

 

21 hours ago, slaytonf said:

Is a hippie a kind of communist?

I think someone was having a bit of "word play" with the idea that many( but not all) hippies lived in "communes", and therefore this made them "communists".  That plus their involvement in anti-war activities that many people saw as "un-American" and therefore HAD to be communist behavior too.  :rolleyes:

Sepiatone

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On 11/11/2017 at 7:01 AM, Sepiatone said:

It gets to be sort of a paradox with this issue.  At the GM plant in which I worked, many of the "good ol' boys" there hated the guys who'd be outside the plant trying to sell communist publications, feeling those guys were "Pinko commie rats", while at the same time being rabidly pro union, not fully realizing that labor unions were originally a communist conception.  

Which is to say, if not for communism, there wouldn't be any "labor unions". ;)

A friend of mine however, decided to have some fun with it all, telling one of the vendors, "If you worked in a factory, you wouldn't have to sell newspapers for a living." :D  And another thing.....

Their papers were all about how "racist" GM was, and our plant included, totally ignoring that the plant had a payroll of 70+% black employees.  In fact, THREE of the first four  foremen I worked for were black.  Plus two black superintendents (position above foreman).

Sepiatone

Vladimir Lenin actually hated labor unions because he thought they weren't radical enough for the revolution. He thought that their being content with just getting more hours and higher wages wasn't enough.

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Lenin was more Bolshevik than an actual communist, his concern being more for the eradication of Czarism  than any real concern for the conditions of the populace or laborers.  Turned out the Russians weren't any better off under Lenin than they were with the Romanovs. 

Sepiatone

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10 hours ago, Sepiatone said:

I think someone was having a bit of "word play" with the idea that many( but not all) hippies lived in "communes", and therefore this made them "communists".  That plus their involvement in anti-war activities that many people saw as "un-American" and therefore HAD to be communist behavior too.  :rolleyes:

Sepiatone

Maybe I was playing, too.

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10 hours ago, Sepiatone said:

Lenin was more Bolshevik than an actual communist, his concern being more for the eradication of Czarism  than any real concern for the conditions of the populace or laborers.  Turned out the Russians weren't any better off under Lenin than they were with the Romanovs. 

Sepiatone

It wasn't the Communists we fought in the Cold War, it was the Russians.  Just the latest chapter in the old East vs. West conflict that goes back, as Herodotus tells us, to the Trojan War.

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Well, remember....

Back in "the day" we thought of ALL Russians as being "communists", even though it wasn't true.  It would be comparable to saying because if all the members of congress and our PRESIDENT are republicans, then ALL Americans are republicans.   ;)

Sepiatone

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I was very young in the 50s but as a fan of both movies and history I've always been interested in reading about McCarthyism and the Hollywood Ten that were blacklisted. It was totally about politics. We always walk a fine line between capitalism and socialism in this country. The key is to understand socialists are not always communists.The fear that existed back in those days was understandable in that the Soviet Union was very aggressive. However, the idea that a group of left leaning writers, directors, producers, and actors would (or even could) overthrow the government was far fetched. Still one has to remember that the political climate at that time was ripe for that type of thinking.

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3 minutes ago, Hoganman1 said:

I was very young in the 50s but as a fan of both movies and history I've always been interested in reading about McCarthyism and the Hollywood Ten that were blacklisted. It was totally about politics. We always walk a fine line between capitalism and socialism in this country. The key is to understand socialists are not always communists.The fear that existed back in those days was understandable in that the Soviet Union was very aggressive. However, the idea that a group of left leaning writers, directors, producers, and actors would (or even could) overthrow the government was far fetched. Still one has to remember that the political climate at that time was ripe for that type of thinking.

Well tell that to Mrs. Iselin!     ;)

 

  (but yea, well said).

 

 

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2 minutes ago, MovieMadness said:

It looks like we are going to get another dose of this tonight, I am sure Ben is going to do a real fine job of it.

I agree that Ben should be more balanced in his approach to this topic.   Ben should mention how the Tea Party is like those commies back in the 50s, in that they also wish to overthrow the US Government if they can't gain power by legal means.     

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Ah; Mrs. Iselin. Did Angela Lansbury win an award for that roll? I cannot remember, but what a performance. It's hard to believe our beloved Jessica Fletcher could be that evil.

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6 minutes ago, Hoganman1 said:

Ah; Mrs. Iselin. Did Angela Lansbury win an award for that roll? I cannot remember, but what a performance. It's hard to believe our beloved Jessica Fletcher could be that evil.

Funny you should ask since I just found this on Wiki: Lansbury was nominated for an Academy Award as Best Supporting Actress, and Ferris Webster was nominated for Best Film Editing. In addition Lansbury was named Best Supporting Actress by the National Board of Review and won the Golden Globe for Best Supporting Actress.

(oh and she was only 3 years older than 'son' Lawrence Harvey). 

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Well the nomination was well deserved. I'm a big fan of Denzel Washington, but I was sorry they re-made this movie. It was and still is a classic. I haven't seen the re-make out of respect for the original.

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4 minutes ago, Hoganman1 said:

Well the nomination was well deserved. I'm a big fan of Denzel Washington, but I was sorry they re-made this movie. It was and still is a classic. I haven't seen the re-make out of respect for the original.

Oh no, and we were getting along so well (ha ha):   I disagree with that remake POV;  In fact to me few films are remakes.   Instead they are 'new' adaptations based on source material (book, play, original story) that was previously made into a film.   Hey, generally I like the first (studio-era),  adaptation,  but there are exceptions; The Huston \ Bogie,  The Maltese Falcon being the classic example.

In addition these new adaptions bring attention to previous ones. E.g. I  know a few people that after seeing the Denzel film,  discovered there was the Sinatra film, and saw that also.   I.e. the Denzel film made people aware of the previous film.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Hoganman1 said:

Ah; Mrs. Iselin. Did Angela Lansbury win an award for that roll? I cannot remember, but what a performance. It's hard to believe our beloved Jessica Fletcher could be that evil.

 

Sadly, no. She lost the Oscar to Patty Duke. You didnt miss much by skipping the remake.......

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On 11/11/2017 at 2:00 PM, calvinnme said:

Everyone at the time seemed to conveniently forget that all during WWII the Russians were being played up to be friendly. After my grandmother passed away in 1982, I was going through her old books and found something that had been printed during WWII talking about what a great guy Stalin was. The  book talks about the sudden tragic death of Stalin's first wife, when common knowledge is that he probably poisoned her. Also see the film "The North Star", made during WWII, in which the Soviet youth are happy healthy comrades living in a workers' paradise until Hitler comes along. The truth is if the Nazis had just patted the Russians on the head and said that from now on Hitler was the new czar, the Russians would have eagerly turned on Stalin and he would have died ala Mussolini. 

If you've ever read or seen Dr. Seuss's "Horton Hears a Who" (preferably the classic Chuck Jones version that tried to get it, not the more recent CGI mutation that didn't), when the Doc wrote it, the US was so determined to keep Stalin as a postwar ally that not only did the country turn a deaf ear to complaints about life under repressive Stalinist rule, any leftwing talk that we should do more to help Russia was considered "subversive" and trying to promote that nasty 30's-Communist hidden-agenda.

Which explains, if you ever wondered, why the Kangaroo not only thinks Horton is crazy for hearing little people who "everyone knows don't exist", but is a "subversive danger to our society" as well--Seuss believed, all it would take for the truth to come out is just someone in a corner to say something, since a person is a person, no matter how small.

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1 hour ago, jamesjazzguitar said:

Oh no, and we were getting along so well (ha ha):   I disagree with that remake POV;  In fact to me few films are remakes.   Instead they are 'new' adaptations based on source material (book, play, original story) that was previously made into a film.   Hey, generally I like the first (studio-era),  adaptation,  but there are exceptions; The Huston \ Bogie,  The Maltese Falcon being the classic example.

In addition these new adaptions bring attention to previous ones. E.g. I  know a few people that after seeing the Denzel film,  discovered there was the Sinatra film, and saw that also.   I.e. the Denzel film made people aware of the previous film.

 

 

I guess you're right about new adaptations bringing more people to the original. Also, as a fan of Denzel  I should give the new one a chance. I also agree there are some films that should not be re-made like the Maltese Falcon. Here's my short list: Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid, Casablanca, Citizen Kane, The Usual Suspects, Tombstone, and Laura. I'm sure there are others as well. Of course there have been some "remakes' that were  disguised as original material.  Farewell My Lovely and Murder My Sweet come to mind.

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