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NipkowDisc

why the media is trying so hard to scuttle roy moore

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Interesting comments from 538. Because of his record in Alabama, although Moore was ahead, he was not doing that well even before the latest accusations. A Fox News poll shows the Democrat carrying independent voters even though Trump won them handily. (The current Opinion Savvy poll, surveying all voters, shows a tie.)

Where did the race stand before the Post story?

The five most recent public pollsters to survey the race — all before Thursday’s allegations — found, on average, Moore ahead of his Democratic opponent, Doug Jones, 48 percent to 42 percent. That sounds like a pretty decent lead until you realize that President Trump won Alabama by 28 points in 2016.

Why was Moore underperforming?

Alabama is a ruby-red state, but Moore has a had a long and controversialrecord there — which might explain why he’s not doing as well as you might expect for a Republican.

Polls differ a bit on why Moore has been struggling, but they all agree that he’s having trouble with voters who don’t identify as evangelical. (Moore has been doing fine among Alabama’s heavily evangelical Republican base.) Hillary Clinton won non-evangelical voters in Alabama by 12 percentage points in 2016, according to the Cooperative Congressional Election Study. But Moore is doing much worse than Trump did among that group. Jones was leading Moore among non-evangelical voters by around 40 points, according to a JMC Analytics and Polling survey and an Opinion Savvy poll.

Another weakness for Moore? Alabama’s independent voters. Both a Fox News poll and the Opinion Savvy poll have Jones winning independents even though Trump carried them in Alabama by 49 percentage points according to the CCES.

It’s possible that Moore has already lost the Alabama voters who would have been most likely to abandon him in light of the Post story. That said, the Fox News poll found that 42 percent of Moore’s supporters had reservations about him, so either they’ve made their peace voting for a candidate they see as flawed or they already have one foot out the door and the Post story could send them the rest of the way.

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So it looks like most people here,  on both sides,   believe Alabama voters should act like a juror;  closely examine the evidence,  review written testimony,   written supporting collaborations etc...  and render a judgement on if Moore commited the acts he is accused of.

Of course unlike a juror,  voters don't get to hear direct testimony and especially cross examination.   

These type of 'he said \ she said' charges,  made decades after the facts, are very difficult for an actual Jury to decide.    A jury has to use the 'reasonable doubt' standard but of course voters don't.

Isn't that asking too much of voters?   

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It's not he said/she said when you have contemporaneous evidence.  Testimony is evidence.  And apparently there is lots of it.

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Right wing Republicans are sure quick to go after Hollywood sex scandals but not when it comes to one of their own. They have no problem with people like homophobic/child molester Moore as long as that R is after the name on the ballot. 

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43 minutes ago, Bogie56 said:

It's not he said/she said when you have contemporaneous evidence.  Testimony is evidence.  And apparently there is lots of it.

 It is my understanding that this 'contemporaneous evidence' is just more 'she said';   E.g. an alleged victim telling friend \ coworker that XYZ occurred shortly after the alleged event.   To me NON 'she said' evidence is physical evidence (e.g. physical proof a minor had intercourse).    But OK,  lets say there is more evidence then just 'she said'.   

None of this evidence is provided to voters like it would be to a jury (with cross examination being a key to determining the truthfulness of testimony).     

Anyhow,  'it is what it is';  I.e. voters need to decide if they wish to take the time to review all of this evidence and render a guilty \ not guilty verdict or decide that doing so isn't possible and therefore NOT factor in these allegations as it relates to how they vote.

 

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42 minutes ago, jamesjazzguitar said:

 It is my understanding that this 'contemporaneous evidence' is just more 'she said';   E.g. an alleged victim telling friend \ coworker that XYZ occurred shortly after the alleged event.   To me NON 'she said' evidence is physical evidence (e.g. physical proof a minor had intercourse).    But OK,  lets say there is more evidence then just 'she said'.   

None of this evidence is provided to voters like it would be to a jury (with cross examination being a key to determining the truthfulness of testimony).     

Anyhow,  'it is what it is';  I.e. voters need to decide if they wish to take the time to review all of this evidence and render a guilty \ not guilty verdict or decide that doing so isn't possible and therefore NOT factor in these allegations as it relates to how they vote.

 

What a choice!!!  No wonder the U.S.A. is so messed up.

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America, I apologize for the South's hypocrisy

"As a native Southerner, I'd like to apologize to the rest of the country. My region repeatedly claims that we place God above all else, but our actions tell a different story, especially when we mix religion, politics and the mistreatment of women and girls. We have politicians who feel no compunction, even, misusing the story of a sacred virgin birth to ignore child molestation."

http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/10/opinions/i-apologize-for-the-souths-hypocrisy-bailey/index.html

 

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1 hour ago, MovieMadness said:

They should have all said they were fondled by Weinstein, they might be more believable.

You right wingers are always so gleefully ready to believe the worst of the moral behaviour of Hollywood "liberals." If you had tails they'd all be wagging whenever an accusation of impropriety is made about one of them.

But if a conservative politician is accused of the same thing it's always a "frame up" by lying girls or a "liberal" media "conspiracy." Or in Trump's case, "locker room talk."

You don't even acknowledge the possibility that your politician could be a deviate in private situations (in Trump's case, he bragged about it!!!). Political partisanship tops all other concerns with you. Forget any moral considerations of the possibility, with the Moore case, of an older man taking sexual advantage of a young girl.

You damn well know there are men who have committed perversions of this kind yet you immediately shoot down the possibility that it could apply to a conservative politician.

Don't your double standards ever cause you to gag just a little?

 

 

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" Those who have run against Moore, however, are pessimistic his voters will leave him over the molestation scandal. “Unless there is some sort of definitive proof that this is true, Roy Moore voters will be invigorated,” said Angi Stalnaker, a prominent strategist who has run multiple campaigns against Moore. .....

https://theintercept.com/2017/11/10/roy-moores-republican-opponents-chased-rumors-about-women-issues-for-years-but-could-never-nail-them-down/

-_-

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A daycare center employee raped a 12-year old child in Alabama

Every single judge on the AL Supreme Court found him guilty… but ONE—Roy Moore

Reason?

“No evidence in this case of an implied threat of serious physical injury.”

:o

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I doubt these allegations against Moore will cause him to lose the Senate race.

Just like Donny could shoot someone on Fifth Avenue, Moore could do just about

anything and it won't make a difference. It is fun to watch him follow the Clarence

Thomas strategy--How dare you say this about such a wonderful guy like me.

 

Not to get too creepy about this, but technically Moore is not a pedophile. The women

who accused him of these actions were too old to be considered young children. So

he was a creepy younger guy who liked to date teenagers and possibly molested one.

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3 hours ago, Bogie56 said:

What a choice!!!  No wonder the U.S.A. is so messed up.

I assume most GOP voters in Alabama will still vote for Moore since they don't wish for their Senator to be a Dem.   (so as you pointed out they will chose party over character).

A write-in vote for Strange (the GOP primary loser) is another option for these GOP members  (verses NOT voting at all or voting for the Dem) but that would risk splinting the GOP vote making it even more likely the Dem would win.     So this option is only viable if Moore drops out and even if he does his name will remain on the ballot thus still making a write campaign for Strange less likely too succeed.     

Couldn't happen to a more deserving bunch of suckers. 

 

 

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3 hours ago, Swithin said:

America, I apologize for the South's hypocrisy

"As a native Southerner, I'd like to apologize to the rest of the country. My region repeatedly claims that we place God above all else, but our actions tell a different story, especially when we mix religion, politics and the mistreatment of women and girls. We have politicians who feel no compunction, even, misusing the story of a sacred virgin birth to ignore child molestation."

http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/10/opinions/i-apologize-for-the-souths-hypocrisy-bailey/index.html

 

Hypocrisy, racism, bigotry, promotion of state-sponsored domestic terrorism against black people -- this all falls in line with the Alabama that I knew under George Wallace.

Does anybody want to get into the Robert Bentley affair? The only reason they have a female governor now is because Robert Bentley had to resign.

He was involved in a sex  scandal, covering it up with State funds. He was also accused of campaign Finance abuses. His resignation came just last April because the state government's investigation had reached the point where they were going to commence  impeachment proceedings against him. So he resigned. And the female lieutenant governor became governor

 This state has always been publicly seen as wrapped up in the Ten Commandments and in the Bible,

but from the actions of its leaders, yesterday and today , and so many of its citizens during the Civil Rights Movement --i

it's Far Far From Any thing you would expect to see coming from people claiming to be Christians.

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Alabama law does not permit the primary loser to have write-in votes for the general election, so Strange is out.  Unless Jesus himself visits Birmingham during rush hour with scores of witnesses and Moore murders him, he will probably get elected.

 

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6 hours ago, JakeHolman said:

BREAKING: Roy Moore Accuser Called for Trump’s ImpeachmentDzla6LZt?format=jpg&name=600x314https://twitter.com/TruthFeedNews/status/929354538888204290

Sounds like she's got good sense.

A lot of Republicans feel the same way.

Quite a few famous ones have even admitted they didn't even vote for trump.

This pathetic route of trying to smear someone who has been sexually assaulted is so old and hackneyed that no one is falling for it anymore. 

Friends, family, relatives, neighbors --everybody knew that the guy was dating underage girls and that, that, was his thing.

There was a time that in the South where they could just hide these crimes-- I'm not just talking about sex crimes-- I'm talking about like murdering people.

Murdering black people like Medgar Evers, Emmett Till, and others. People just stayed quiet because they were intimidated or they just didn't give a damn. But those murderers eventually were exposed and this situation will eventually be exposed.

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Yes, it's blame the victim.  Moore met one of these young girls when he gave a presentation at her high school civics class and he was in his thirties.  The 14 year old he felt up (and who he tried to get to feel him up) he met at the courthouse.  What a guy!

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7 minutes ago, ChristineHoard said:

Yes, it's blame the victim.  Moore met one of these young girls when he gave a presentation at her high school civics class and he was in his thirties.  The 14 year old he felt up (and who he tried to get to feel him up) he met at the courthouse.  What a guy!

Apparently more people are coming forward.  One quote I heard was that it was common knowledge that he liked to date teenagers (when in his thirties) and that he used to troll the high schools.

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