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TomJH

When Was "Gay" First Used As A Term In Films?

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1 hour ago, Sepiatone said:

The three letter shortened word also means "to work hard" or a reference to hard labor. I've also, in some older British films, heard some guys say, "I'm all fagged out." after a hard day's work. ;)

Interesting - I don't recall coming across that expression, but it sounds feasible. I've more often come across expressions along the lines of "I'm absolutely pooped, what with all the words I've been looking up", or "I'm knackered from googling for the first time some piece of slang was first used in the movies"... :P

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3 hours ago, limey said:

Interesting - I don't recall coming across that expression, but it sounds feasible. I've more often come across expressions along the lines of "I'm absolutely pooped, what with all the words I've been looking up", or "I'm knackered from googling for the first time some piece of slang was first used in the movies"... :P

The term "I'm all fagged out" is used in the Bette Davis \ Humphrey Bogart film,  Marked Women.

The film is set in NYC and the screenplay written by American Robert Rossen,  so I assume the term was used in the USA as well.

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Then there's three "The Gay Caballero's".  A 1932 film, another in 1940, and a 1959 episode of "The Adventures Of Zorro" TV show released under Disney productions, so apparently, the same sex connotation wasn't considered by those producers back then, if the connotation existed at the time or not.

Sepiatone

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52 minutes ago, Sepiatone said:

Then there's three "The Gay Caballero's".  A 1932 film, another in 1940, and a 1959 episode of "The Adventures Of Zorro" TV show released under Disney productions, so apparently, the same sex connotation wasn't considered by those producers back then, if the connotation existed at the time or not.

Sepiatone

Ah yes, BUT don't forget here Sepia that by 1981 you'd have that George Hamilton movie, Zorro, The Gay Blade, and in which there is NO doubt about the updated meaning of the word contained within that movie's title.

(...it's actually a pretty funny parody of the earlier Zorro films and TV program, ya know)

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I believe the term "gay" first entered mainstream awareness in a cover story from either Look or Life in the early 1960s called "The Sad Gay Life." Previously, "gay" had been a code or slang term within gay subculture.

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On 12/4/2017 at 6:40 PM, Sepiatone said:

Then there's three "The Gay Caballero's".  A 1932 film, another in 1940, and a 1959 episode of "The Adventures Of Zorro" TV show released under Disney productions, so apparently, the same sex connotation wasn't considered by those producers back then, if the connotation existed at the time or not.

Not to mention, Donald Duck, Jose' and Panchito sang about themselves as "three gay caballeros", and we know Donald still has a healthy relationship with Daisy.

Although Walt Disney did want to take the, er, Tyrone Power and Douglas Fairbanks out of Zorro's Don-Diego persona for the 50's TV series, and have Guy Williams play him more as just an irresponsible rich-kid out of college, for the family audience.  A vast improvement on the previous two, IMO.

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35 minutes ago, EricJ said:

Not to mention, Donald Duck, Jose' and Panchito sang about themselves as "three gay caballeros", and we know Donald still has a healthy relationship with Daisy.

Although Walt Disney did want to take the, er, Tyrone Power and Douglas Fairbanks out of Zorro's Don-Diego persona for the 50's TV series, and have Guy Williams play him more as just an irresponsible rich-kid out of college, for the family audience.  A vast improvement on the previous two, IMO.

Wait a sec here, Eric.

So, would you also say something such as, "The thing that lessens the overall quality of The Scarlet Pimpernel(and which of course the story of Zorro is just a Mexican version of) is that Leslie Howard plays his alternate ego as an effete and effeminate fop, and it would have been better if instead he had played it as more the spoiled rich kid" ?

Well, it sounds here as if you might say such a thing, anyway. And, if I'm right, then I'm going to have to disagree with you about this too.

And btw, while I was a big fan of the old Guy Williams-starring Disney TV series of the late-'50s as a kid myself(yep, even had the hat, the mask, the cape, the plastic sword and whip that came as a set for the youngins back then) I consider the Tyrone Power version to be the definitive and best filmed version of the Zorro story, and of course Power played Don-Diego AS that effeminate fop, AND to very good effect.

(...thought your Donald Duck line up there was pretty funny, though)

 

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8 minutes ago, Dargo said:

Wait a sec here, Eric.

So, would you also say something such as, "The thing that lessens the overall quality of The Scarlet Pimpernel(and which of course the story of Zorro is just a Mexican version of) is that Leslie Howard's alternate ego is an effete and effeminate fop, and it would have been better if he had played it as more the spoiled rich kid" ?

Well, it sounds here as if you might say such a thing, anyway. And, if I'm right, then I'm going to have to disagree with you about this too.

And btw, while I was a big fan of the old Guy Williams-starring Disney TV series of the late-'50s as a kid myself(yep, even had the hat, the mask, the cape, the plastic sword and whip that came as a set for the youngins back then) I consider the Tyrone Power version to be the definitive and best filmed version of the Zorro story, and of course Power played Don-Diego AS that effeminate fop, AND to very good effect.

(...thought your Donald Duck line up there was pretty funny, though)

 

Ha, Ha!
My mom has a picture of me proudly standing in the driveway wearing my Zorro outfit! (which was no doubt an exact replica of yours!)
Another of an even younger me in the back yard wearing my Davey Crockett 'C  o  o  n  Skin hat with tail!
I bet we could have had a swell time in those days if we'd lived just a little closer. :)
 

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13 minutes ago, Stephan55 said:

Ha, Ha!
My mom has a picture of me proudly standing in the driveway wearing my Zorro outfit! (which was no doubt an exact replica of yours!)
Another of an even younger me in the back yard wearing my Davey Crockett '**** Skin hat with tail!
I bet we could have had a swell time in those days if we'd lived just a little closer. :)
 

LOL

Yeah, and even though, and as I recall, we DID live within just a couple of miles from each other back then.

Of course when you're 7 or 8, just a couple of miles and whole different school district would seem a world away, huh.

(...and yeah, Uncle Walt sure had the pulse of us little Boomer consumers back then, didn't he)

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15 minutes ago, Dargo said:

LOL

Yeah, and even though, and as I recall, we DID live within just a couple of miles from each other back then.

Of course when you're 7 or 8, just a couple of miles and whole different school district would seem a world away, huh.

(...and yeah, Uncle Walt sure had the pulse of us little Boomer consumers back then, didn't he)

Absolutely!
I remember when I was four or five and getting lost just walking around the block for the first time.
I think I was crying and just kept walking and turning corners, and some how managed to be on my own familiar street again! Whew, what a learning experience that was!

You bet, he sure did. He and Mattel (which had a toy factory on Rosecrans Blvd back then).
I remember when GI Joe came out and made it a boy thing to play with dolls.

My mom had a friend that worked at Mattel when Chatty Cathy was all the rage.
She brought a very special model to share with her friends and Chatty Cathy uttered all kinds of expletives when her string was pulled. Of course I wasn't supposed to hear any of it, but I walked in on a bunch of adults drinking beer and giggling and laughing like little school girls taking turns pulling this dolls string and then roaring with laughter and doing it again, and again!
They were oblivious to my presence until someone finally noticed me and quickly ushered me out of the room.

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1 hour ago, Dargo said:

So, would you also say something such as, "The thing that lessens the overall quality of The Scarlet Pimpernel(and which of course the story of Zorro is just a Mexican version of) is that Leslie Howard plays his alternate ego as an effete and effeminate fop, and it would have been better if instead he had played it as more the spoiled rich kid" ?

 I consider the Tyrone Power version to be the definitive and best filmed version of the Zorro story, and of course Power played Don-Diego AS that effeminate fop, AND to very good effect.

Still, have to admit, when Power as Don Diego keeps rhapsodizing about "the perfumes of Spain"...it's not whatcha-call subtle.  They're rubbing our face in it, to as much as the Code would allow back then.

It sort of harms the ability for Diego/Zorro to be the leading-man with the female he's supposed to be, by the end of the story.

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2 minutes ago, EricJ said:

Still, have to admit, when Power as Don Diego keeps rhapsodizing about "the perfumes of Spain"...it's not whatcha-call subtle.  They're rubbing our face in it, to as much as the Code would allow back then.

It sort of harms the ability for Diego/Zorro to be the leading-man with the female he's supposed to be, by the end of the story.

Evidently you're forgetting that part of the suspense of the story is set up by the thought of when Linda Darnell will discover that his foppish act is just that.

(...and so nope, I don't think it harms the plausibility of them ultimately connecting at all) 

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Well, you guys certainly(in MY 'hood at least) would have fit the "Guy Williams as rich kid/zorro" version to a TEE with all your "store bought" Zorro regalia.  In MY 'hood, we had to settle for "Jerry-rigged" outfits, those "store bought" ensembles being too much of an extravagance back then.

Ah, but we had just as much fun regardless.  -_-

As for Donald Duck, well, certainly not "light in the loafers", but would fit with some of today's politicians and celebrities taking "selfies" due to you know, him not wearing any PANTS and all..... :P  He'd be hitting the bricks with LAUER right now. ;) 

Sepiatone

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On 12/3/2017 at 10:28 PM, limey said:

As for a cigarettes, the entomology of it's slang equivalent ...

Unless you're smoking something with six legs, I think you mean etymology...

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14 minutes ago, karlofffan said:

Unless you're smoking something with six legs, I think you mean etymology...

Darn spell checker crawled the wrong way with that one. I thought it looked odd at the time, but let it fly. Here's your internet cookie award for being the first to spot that...

cimg07152.jpg

 

And since we now appear to be listing early titles that fit the thread theme - here's the earliest such title that I've actually watched on TCM: 1930's Let us be Gay, with Norma Shearer.

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3 hours ago, Sepiatone said:

Well, you guys certainly(in MY 'hood at least) would have fit the "Guy Williams as rich kid/zorro" version to a TEE with all your "store bought" Zorro regalia.  In MY 'hood, we had to settle for "Jerry-rigged" outfits, those "store bought" ensembles being too much of an extravagance back then.

Ah, but we had just as much fun regardless.  -_-

As for Donald Duck, well, certainly not "light in the loafers", but would fit with some of today's politicians and celebrities taking "selfies" due to you know, him not wearing any PANTS and all..... :P  He'd be hitting the bricks with LAUER right now. ;) 

Sepiatone

Wait a sec here, Sepia!

You set-up your last line here by referencing a "bird", "disgraced politicians/celebrities", "selfies" AND "not wearing any pants", and YET you finish your thought by use of Matt Lauer's name?!

Dude, shouldn't you have finished your thought by mentioning Anthony Weiner instead?

'Cause, not ONLY does every OTHER description you used lead up to HIM, but the guy has one hell of a "beak" on that face of his TOO ya know...

Anthony-Weiner.jpg

LOL

(...oh and btw...I wouldn't necessarily say Stephan and I growing up there in warm and sunny Southern California and just a stone's throw from where we'd often spend our formative years next to the Manhattan Beach pier gazing upon all the bikini clad California girls as they strolled by, that that made us "rich"...nooooo, I'd say that that just made us LUCKY, that's all!) ;)

 

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10 hours ago, Dargo said:

Evidently you're forgetting that part of the suspense of the story is set up by the thought of when Linda Darnell will discover that his foppish act is just that.

(...and so nope, I don't think it harms the plausibility of them ultimately connecting at all) 

I agree that 'his foppish act' as a deception adds suspense.   As for Howard and the Pimpernel:   Note that in this film his actions are done in front of many people that appear to have known him for a while (verses Zorro, where he only acts this way to a small circle of people that don't know him).   Therefore I assume the Pimpernel was always into fashion and foppish to a degree otherwise the sudden change would be a give away.    So one can be a hero risking his life for others and still know that color clashing your wardrobe is a no-no!  

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19 hours ago, Dargo said:

And btw, while I was a big fan of the old Guy Williams-starring Disney TV series of the late-'50s as a kid myself(yep, even had the hat, the mask, the cape, the plastic sword and whip that came as a set for the youngins back then) I consider the Tyrone Power version to be the definitive and best filmed version of the Zorro story, and of course Power played Don-Diego AS that effeminate fop, AND to very good effect.

 

 

Si, double si AND triple si in agreement!

The Tyrone Power version of Zorro is a marvel, one of the great film swashbucklers. One of the great satisfactions of this classic is the final duel in which the swaggeringly macho Basil Rathbone, who had sneered in contempt at the "effete" Don Diego throughout the film, finds the "poof" to be more than his match.

And I'm a guy who grew up with the Disney Zorro, spending mucho bucks (or, should I say, my parents did) on plenty of merchandising from the series. Say, whatever happened to my Zorro hat and mask? But even as a kid, I preferred the Ty Power version.

The-Mark-of-Zorro-1940-2.jpg

"Call me a poppinjay, will ya', Macho Man?"

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Well, Darg, I mention Lauer only in relation to the fired celebrity thing. ;) I never considered Weiner a celebrity. No matter HOW hard he tried living up to his name.  B)

Sepiatone

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On 12/6/2017 at 10:32 AM, Dargo said:

Wait a sec here, Sepia!

You set-up your last line here by referencing a "bird", "disgraced politicians/celebrities", "selfies" AND "not wearing any pants", and YET you finish your thought by use of Matt Lauer's name?!

Dude, shouldn't you have finished your thought by mentioning Anthony Weiner instead?

'Cause, not ONLY does every OTHER description you used lead up to HIM, but the guy has one hell of a "beak" on that face of his TOO ya know...

Anthony-Weiner.jpg

LOL

(...oh and btw...I wouldn't necessarily say Stephan and I growing up there in warm and sunny Southern California and just a stone's throw from where we'd often spend our formative years next to the Manhattan Beach pier gazing upon all the bikini clad California girls as they strolled by, that that made us "rich"...nooooo, I'd say that that just made us LUCKY, that's all!) ;)

 

This guy put me off having a Coney Dog for dinner forever!

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If anyone wants to read a book with early usage of the word "gay" here's one from the 1630's, that is fun reading.

Nice cover too with art by Botticelli!

9781409206811-us.jpg

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