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Zea

SO BAD IT'S GOOD

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If this topic has already been discussed, forgive me. Just point me toward its previous incarnation and I'll delete this one.

If not...then in light of the recent showings of so many Lana Turner schmaltzy movies, got to thinking about my all time favorite 'so bad it's good' films.

I KNOW there are others in my HokeyHitList, but first and foremost in my mind is:

"VALLEY OF THE DOLLS"

Patty Duke is as pricelessly over the top as Barbara Parkins is ba-a-a-d.  While my heart bled for the great Lee Grant having to be a part of all that hokem, I roared w/the thunderous approval of all the transvestite performer/impersonators out there for the great, 'wigged' Susan Hayward. 

A general, gigantic hoot all around, friends & I used to gather for annual "VOTD" parties and sync dialog & sing alongs w/Neely. Good times!:lol:

Zea

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6 hours ago, Zea said:

"VALLEY OF THE DOLLS"

Patty Duke is as pricelessly over the top as Barbara Parkins is ba-a-a-d.  While my heart bled for the great Lee Grant having to be a part of all that hokem, I roared w/the thunderous approval of all the transvestite performer/impersonators out there for the great, 'wigged' Susan Hayward. 

Yep, the core gay audience really, really, REALLY likes seeing Patty Duke climactically drunken, washed up, and cursing in the gutter, just like Lindsey Lohan on a bender.

...No personal issues there.   :rolleyes:

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DYK: Judy Garland was originally cast as Helen Lawson. Judy left due to personality conflicts. (AKA: Judy thought the role was crap & let everyone know it.  Consequently, she was treated shabbily by production staff, et.al. motivating her to quit.)

Just as well. Judy might have made Lawson more believable. Hayward hammed it up just enough to make it campy. Hayward did have a tendency to play every role in her later career as if it was "I Want To Live II".:P

Zea

 

                      

 

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I love Valley of the Dolls-- not because it's any sort of cinematic achievement, but because it was so over-the-top and campy.  I suppose it is one of those "so bad, it's good" movies, but I've seen many of these campy films that are just plain bad.  Patty Duke's character is the best character in the film.  Her decline is so dramatic and over-the-top which is hilarious in contrast to Barbara Parkins' boring character.  I was disappointed that Parkins only dabbled in "the dolls" for a few minutes in the film.  I was hoping for a complete collapse.  The best scene in the film is the bathroom brawl between Duke and Susan Hayward, culminating with Duke pulling off Hayward's wig.  

My other favorite "so bad, they're good" films:

Burnt Offerings (1976)

The Stepford Wives (1975)

UHF (1989)

Barbarella (1968)

Mommie Dearest (1981)

 

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1 hour ago, speedracer5 said:

I love Valley of the Dolls-- not because it's any sort of cinematic achievement, but because it was so over-the-top and campy.  I suppose it is one of those "so bad, it's good" movies, but I've seen many of these campy films that are just plain bad. 

Being openly heterosexual, I don't watch it for the same reason that the Valley audience gushes just as much over watching Faye Dunaway smear her makeup into a misogynist cartoon-character in "Mommie Dearest" or Meryl Streep in her 50's prance about singing Abba songs in "Mamma Mia".

But I do have an affectionate respect for what "major bestsellers" THOUGHT they had to be in the late 60's and early 70's to get a Hollywood deal, and throw every epic bit of soap opera into the pot whether it was romance, horror, war or disaster/thriller, until the top boiled over.  Movies and novel bestsellers started having irreconcilable differences in the early 90's, and "Soon to be a major motion picture" just doesn't have the same ring today with a Nicholas Sparks or James Patterson novel that it had with a Peter Benchley, Ira Levin or William Goldman novel in the 70's, let alone a Jacqueline Susann or Sidney Sheldon.

Most straight viewers who watch it get more historical/genre giggles out of the "Fashion-shoot" montage, than they get out of watching aging actresses validate personal resentment fantasies.  Whoever's just going to use classic old movies just as narcissistic social-revenge masturbatory-fodder, may need to have their old-movie-fan license revoked.

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Film critic bad.

"Armageddon" (1998)

"Casper's Haunted Christmas" (2000)

"Knowing" (2009)

"Last Starfighter" (1984)

"Son of The Mask" (2005)

"Drive Angry" (2011)

"Left Behind" (2014)

"After Earth" (2013)

"Outlander" (2008)

"Silent Night, Deadly Night" (1984)

"Star Trek V - The Final Frontier" (1989)

"Mars Attacks" (1996)

"Jupiter Ascending" (2015)

"Battle Beyond The Stars" (1980) aka "John-Boy in Outer Space":P

--------------------------------------------------------------

"Battlefield Earth" (2000)  stupid but entertaining, get a good laugh out of the plot holes and John Travolta's legs are so cumbersome, he can't disco.:lol:

 

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1 hour ago, speedracer5 said:

 

My other favorite "so bad, they're good" films:

Burnt Offerings (1976)

 

Mommie Dearest (1981)

 

I quite enjoyed BURNT OFFERINGS, and while it's certainly no THE HAUNTING (the 1963 version, just love it), I wouldn't put it in the 'so bad, it's good' category. It thoroughly scared me to death as a kid and still gives me the creeps even now as an adult.

MOMMIE DEAREST, on the other hand.....I have to admit it's quite over-the-top, but nevertheless I never missed it when it came on cable as a teen.

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Not to degrade the higher "quality" titles previously mentioned here, but I've always thought that the films of Ed Wood kinda fit this bill (or something like it).
Plan Nine From Outer Space (1956) and Glen or Glenda (1953) immediately come to mind.
Ed, who could easily have played a role in any of his own movies (and did later thru the incarnation of Johnny Depp) was a character with numerous clashing interests in his own right.
To call such camp "good" may be an exaggeration. But few would deny how "bad" they were.
When I was a kid and watched his hype they always made me laugh for the corniness.
On reflection, I feel kinda sorry about that as he may have been trying to be a "serious" writer, producer, director all along. Still he might be proud to know that his productions which were so lambasted at the time have garnered such a cult following in later years.

I remember in H.S. during the 60's that both the Susann book and the Valley of the Dolls (1967) movie were very popular in S. Calif (especially among the girls). But I think is was more because of the prevalent drug culture at the time and also the chance to see adorable little Patty and Cathy Lane portrayed as a tramp on the big screen.  
I found the unrelated Russ Meyer follow-up Beyond the Valley of the Dolls (1970) to be equally exploitative "bad" and "sleazy" and therefore also "good" in a campy sort of way.

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54 minutes ago, Stephan55 said:

I remember in H.S. during the 60's that both the Susann book and the Valley of the Dolls (1967) movie were very popular in S. Calif (especially among the girls). But I think is was more because of the prevalent drug culture at the time and also the chance to see adorable little Patty and Cathy Lane portrayed as a tramp on the big screen.  
I found the unrelated Russ Meyer follow-up Beyond the Valley of the Dolls (1970) to be equally exploitative "bad" and "sleazy" and therefore also "good" in a campy sort of way.

Now that they're, um, both on Criterion :huh: , check out the two vintage trailers for BVD:
They both had the exact same tagline--"Fox had two great ideas:  One, make a sequel to Valley of the Dolls, and two, get Russ Meyer to direct it!"
Except that the first trailer, made before the movie finished filming, sells the line as an Important Hollywood Picture, and the second, made after the movie finished, sells the same line word for word as a Hippie Freak-Out for those young kids and their rock 'n roll... Guess Fox didn't quite know what they'd get with Idea #2.

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Mae-West-Peter-Liapis-Sextette-1978.JPG

Sextette (1978) where 85 year-old Mae West plays the most beautiful and sought after girl in the world.  Her suitors include Timothy Dalton, Tony Curtis, Dom DeLuise, Ringo Starr, Alice Cooper, George Hamilton (who else), Regis Philbin, George Raft and Keith Moon for crying out loud.

If you thought Pierce Brosnan's singing in Mamma Mia was something else wait until you hear Timothy Dalton croon "Love Will Keep Us Together" to Mae."  You will never forget it.  Rumour has it that the camera department ran out of gauze and gel after the first day of shooting!

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I'm sure we've all got our favorites, so nobody's old-movie-fan license needs to be revoked. There are all sorts of reasons to love movies collectively and individually.

The Oscar was a great choice. Truly dreadful "hipster" dialogue and some scarily over the top performances. And the supposed "validation" of having one of the major faces of Hollywood, Hedda Hopper.

Some others from that era you might like, Zea: Harlow with Carroll Baker, Angela Lansbury, Red Buttons, Raf Vallone and Martin Balsam. Not a bad cast but the air of unreality and improbability which hangs over the movie and the palpable 60's vibe to a film supposedly set during the Great Depression make it an ironist's delight. It's super glossy and littered with all the fan magazine clichés about Hollywood. Most tellingly, not once does it credibly resurrect Jean Harlow, one of the iconic screen actresses of all time. Her story is merely a jumping off point and jump off this movie does, into a dizzying blend of the semi-factual and the ridiculously over-wrought. It caught a bad case of movie fever and succumbs before our eyes, but what a treat to watch.

Another would be Sylvia, another Carroll Baker gem. (This film, Harlow, and The Carpetbaggers could be considered a trifecta of sorts for Carroll.) The big attraction is the inspired cameo casting of former stars and B-listers: Peter Lawford, Ann Sothern, Viveca Lindfors, Edmund O'Brien, Aldo Ray and Joanne Dru. Carroll costars with George Maharis, an essentially boilerplate actor who actually manages to rise above this sublimely quirky mess. Lawford hires private eye Maharis to look into the background of his fiancé, Baker, with nothing to go on but a slim volume of her poems. He's led to a Pittsburg library where librarian Lindfors gets him up to speed with the tale of how young Baker was "interfered with" by stepfather Ray and subsequently left town with an itinerant preacher, who may have had something similar in mind. They drift down to Mexico where Baker dumps the preacher and hooks up with a vendor of ladies dresses (O'Brien), while simultaneously impressing a local priest of her "goodness"....???? She dogs O'Brien on his trip back to the States, dumps him and goes to work in an arcade under the tutelage of Sothern, who directs her attention to all the free-spenders looking for a good time. She learns fast and goes to "work" with new friend Dru who wants to branch out on her own. Dru is suddenly hospitalized and, to pay the bills, Baker goes to work for a transvestite clubowner whose business is a front for an escort service. Baker "escorts" a guy whose predilections are so scandalous he can only point to pictures in a book and, when the encounter goes south, she uses the hush money to rehabilitate herself into a poetess and grower of prize roses. Got that? Looney Tunes all the way, but what a ride.

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On ‎12‎/‎27‎/‎2017 at 5:08 PM, Zea said:

If this topic has already been discussed, forgive me. Just point me toward its previous incarnation and I'll delete this one.

If not...then in light of the recent showings of so many Lana Turner schmaltzy movies, got to thinking about my all time favorite 'so bad it's good' films.

I KNOW there are others in my HokeyHitList, but first and foremost in my mind is:

"VALLEY OF THE DOLLS"

Patty Duke is as pricelessly over the top as Barbara Parkins is ba-a-a-d.  While my heart bled for the great Lee Grant having to be a part of all that hokem, I roared w/the thunderous approval of all the transvestite performer/impersonators out there for the great, 'wigged' Susan Hayward. 

A general, gigantic hoot all around, friends & I used to gather for annual "VOTD" parties and sync dialog & sing alongs w/Neely. Good times!:lol:

Zea

YEP, inthe immortal words of both *Gary Cooper & *Clint Eastwood. It is a sloppy film & the also already gone Roger Ebert-l942-2014)  cool guy, but always actually bragged about writing the screenp0lay for "Beyond the Valley of the Dolls?"

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  I split a wee-bit with you on 1966's "The Oscar" though & think it's a fair picture (**1/2) but by no means a great one   Plus, any moivie that features *"THE CHAIRMAN OF THE BOARD: FRANCIS (ALBERT) SINATRA AT IT'S FINALE CAN'T BE ALL BAD

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Of course you can't leave out the works of Edward D. Wood Jr.-(l923-1978) & anybody reading this must see 1994's marvelous "Ed Wood" (****-stars!) & only grossed $6m.  *Martin Landau delivered one of thee greatest performances in recent years as Bela Lugosi

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1 hour ago, Bogie56 said:

Mae-West-Peter-Liapis-Sextette-1978.JPG

Sextette (1978) where 85 year-old Mae West plays the most beautiful and sought after girl in the world.  Her suitors include Timothy Dalton, Tony Curtis, Dom DeLuise, Ringo Starr, Alice Cooper, George Hamilton (who else), Regis Philbin, George Raft and Keith Moon for crying out loud.

If you thought Pierce Brosnan's singing in Mamma Mia was something else wait until you hear Timothy Dalton croon "Love Will Keep Us Together" to Mae."  You will never forget it.  Rumour has it that the camera department ran out of gauze and gel after the first day of shooting!

If you think this Mae West-(l893-l980) movie was lousy, you all must check out 19709's stunningly awful-(& not even fun, just annoyingly awful!) I easily rate

it among the top 3 worst flix ever produced (TRIVIA: On all 3 vacations to Tinsel-Town & I';vbe touched on thgis many times, I was lucky enough to stay at exact same motel located at 777 N. Vine. you could even see the Paramount water Tower from there. Anyhow, I just felt that a massive bldgh/apartments seemed fam,iliar to me, so I looked it up & it was/is "THE RAVENSWOOD APTS" at the end of Vine. West lived there 48yrs & passed away inside as well.  It's ultra red lights are so bright you can easily see them all the way up at the "Griffith 0bservatory"

She oviously didn't have far to go top work at Paramount, huh    Though she chose NYC to be laid to rest

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On ‎12‎/‎27‎/‎2017 at 11:19 PM, NipkowDisc said:

what about the oscar?...

:D

 

& a rare appearance in it by Tony Bennett-(l926-)

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On ‎12‎/‎27‎/‎2017 at 5:08 PM, Zea said:

If this topic has already been discussed, forgive me. Just point me toward its previous incarnation and I'll delete this one.

If not...then in light of the recent showings of so many Lana Turner schmaltzy movies, got to thinking about my all time favorite 'so bad it's good' films.

I KNOW there are others in my HokeyHitList, but first and foremost in my mind is:

"VALLEY OF THE DOLLS"

Patty Duke is as pricelessly over the top as Barbara Parkins is ba-a-a-d.  While my heart bled for the great Lee Grant having to be a part of all that hokem, I roared w/the thunderous approval of all the transvestite performer/impersonators out there for the great, 'wigged' Susan Hayward. 

A general, gigantic hoot all around, friends & I used to gather for annual "VOTD" parties and sync dialog & sing alongs w/Neely. Good times!:lol:

Zea

Originally they desperatelywanted & even somewhat planned for the legendary Judy Garland to be in the role *Susan Hayward took instead

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On 12/27/2017 at 5:08 PM, Zea said:

A general, gigantic hoot all around, friends & I used to gather for annual "VOTD" parties and sync dialog & sing alongs w/Neely. Good times!:lol:

Yeah, thanks for taking over all our "Singalong" Fathom screenings-- :angry:

I remember when they started out as just a Paramount Grease sing-along, now they're all Frozen and Mamma Mia.  

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