Mozart1791

BitterSWEET MYSTERY OF LIFE:

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what some casting directors saw in F Avalon, P Boone and R Nelson.

The obvious intention was to create ,,wholesome'' competition to Presley and JL Lewis; how well did those directors succeed?

Boone's voice was a failed imitation of NK Cole's; as to his acting, he was good only for testing whether camera lenses were indeed unbreakable.:huh:

FA and RN had really nice voices, sweet and caressing:); as actors, however, they were not the Pacino nor de Niro of their time:lol:.

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2 hours ago, Mozart1791 said:

what some casting directors saw in F Avalon, P Boone and R Nelson.

The obvious intention was to create ,,wholesome'' competition to Presley and JL Lewis; how well did those directors succeed?

Pretty well--About as well as boy-bands succeeded in the 90's, with pre-pubescent girls who didn't always WANT to rebel against their parents with bad-boy pelvis-twisters, and just wanted to open the door for their (sigh!) Mystery Date.

F Avalon and A Funicello were pretty much the High School Musical of their day, showing kids a teenage world where you could spend all your time at the beach without any overt hint of sex, and R Nelson was literally the Boy Next Door, if you happened to live next to O & H Nelson on your TV set.

...Anything else, or do we go into an analysis of the Partridge Family?  :lol:

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3 hours ago, Mozart1791 said:

what some casting directors saw in F Avalon, P Boone and R Nelson.

The obvious intention was to create ,,wholesome'' competition to Presley and JL Lewis; how well did those directors succeed?

Boone's voice was a failed imitation of NK Cole's; as to his acting, he was good only for testing whether camera lenses were indeed unbreakable.:huh:

FA and RN had really nice voices, sweet and caressing:); as actors, however, they were not the Pacino nor de Niro of their time:lol:.

REALLY?! Funny, but I would have never thought of, or for that matter ever before heard of anyone positing the thought that was any similarity in tone or phrasing between Boone and Cole?

Nope, if anything I've always felt Boone was sort of a "repackaged Bing Crosby for the Mid-Century set".

(...and I'd also say that between the three of those old '50's teen idol singers you've mentioned, Boone MIGHT have had the best voice among them...emphasis on the word "might" here, of course)

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1 hour ago, EricJ said:

Pretty well--About as well as boy-bands succeeded in the 90's, with pre-pubescent girls who didn't always WANT to rebel against their parents with bad-boy pelvis-twisters, and just wanted to open the door for their (sigh!) Mystery Date.

F Avalon and A Funicello were pretty much the High School Musical of their day, showing kids a teenage world where you could spend all your time at the beach without any overt hint of sex, and R Nelson was literally the Boy Next Door, if you happened to live next to O & H Nelson on your TV set.

...Anything else, or do we go into an analysis of the Partridge Family?  :lol:

:lol:

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28 minutes ago, Dargo said:

REALLY?! Funny, but I would have never thought of, or for that matter ever before heard of anyone positing the thought that was any similarity in tone or phrasing between Boone and Cole?

Nope, if anything I've always felt Boone was sort of a "repackaged Bing Crosby for the Mid-Century set".

(...and I'd also say that between the three of those old '50's teen idol singers you've mentioned, Boone MIGHT have had the best voice among them...emphasis on the word "might" here, of course)

I think gregory peck sounds a lot like charlton heston in moby dick.:D

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2 minutes ago, NipkowDisc said:

I think gregory peck sounds a lot like charlton heston in moby dick.:D

.....

.....

....

....

....That's nice.  :unsure:

 

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4 minutes ago, NipkowDisc said:

I think gregory peck sounds a lot like charlton heston in moby dick.:D

Actually Nip, if you think about it, Gregory Peck always sounded a bit like Royal Dano, and Chuck Heston always sounded a bit like Kirk Douglas.

;)

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9 hours ago, Mozart1791 said:

 

FA and RN had really nice voices, sweet and caressing:); as actors, however, they were not the Pacino nor de Niro of their time:lol:.

And Elvis was? I can't think of one movie he did that can really truly be called a classic.
 

Great singer that he was, I doubt anyone, even his biggest fans, can honestly say he's up there in the acting league with Tracy, Fonda, Cagney, March etc.

 

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20 minutes ago, Bethluvsfilms said:

And Elvis was? I can't think of one movie he did that can really truly be called a classic.
 

Great singer that he was, I doubt anyone, even his biggest fans, can honestly say he's up there in the acting league with Tracy, Fonda, Cagney, March etc.

 

Yea,  Elvis wasn't a very good actor.   Now he was in a few good movies,  like King Creole,  but in scenes with actors like Matthau,  Carolyn Jones,  and especially 'pops',  Dean Jagger,  he was clearly not at their level  (but he does hold his own in that one).

But hey,  even as a musician,  he was only good in those early years.   To me he is one of the most talented entertainers that instead of developing was at this best in the early years and went downhill from there (really hitting rock bottom near the end).

 

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3 minutes ago, Bethluvsfilms said:

And Elvis was? I can't think of one movie he did that can really truly be called a classic.
 

Great singer that he was, I doubt anyone, even his biggest fans, can honestly say he's up there in the acting league with Tracy, Fonda, Cagney, March etc.

 

Obviously you've never seen King Creole.  it was directed by Michael Curtiz, who also directed Casablanca. Two of Elvis' co-stars,  Walter Matthau and Dean Jagger were Oscar winners as well. My two favorite supporting roles in this movie are by Vic Morrow and Carolyn Jones,  two marvelous performers who I thought never got all the recognition they deserved.

Naturally Elvis sings Some great Dixieland type Rock, as the movie is set in New Orleans.

If Elvis had been able to continue with this kind of film, he probably would have ended up quite a famous actor, but his life went in a different direction.

Anyway, King Creole is a good movie and can stand on its own merits.

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1 hour ago, Princess of Tap said:

Obviously you've never seen King Creole.  it was directed by Michael Curtiz, who also directed Casablanca. Two of Elvis' co-stars,  Walter Matthau and Dean Jagger were Oscar winners as well. My two favorite supporting roles in this movie are by Vic Morrow and Carolyn Jones,  two marvelous performers who I thought never got all the recognition they deserved.

Naturally Elvis sings Some great Dixieland type Rock, as the movie is set in New Orleans.

If Elvis had been able to continue with this kind of film, he probably would have ended up quite a famous actor, but his life went in a different direction.

Anyway, King Creole is a good movie and can stand on its own merits.

As a matter of fact I have seen King Creole. And it does not change my opinion one iota of Elvis' acting ability. So it was directed by Michael Curtiz (who has directed many great classics), and yes it did have Matthau and Dean Jagger (great actors), Vic Morrow and Carolyn Jones (both whom I would agree were always very much underrated)... it still doesn't make the movie itself anything I would call a classic.

 

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Elvis Aron was a magnetic presence: that is undeniable.

Sinatra was a great actor when playing in good dramas such as ETERNITY and CANDIDATE; trifles such as THE TENDER TRAP were unworthy of him, and he should have flat turned them down.

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17 hours ago, Mozart1791 said:

what some casting directors saw in F Avalon, P Boone and R Nelson.

The obvious intention was to create ,,wholesome'' competition to Presley and JL Lewis; how well did those directors succeed?

Boone's voice was a failed imitation of NK Cole's; as to his acting, he was good only for testing whether camera lenses were indeed unbreakable.:huh:

FA and RN had really nice voices, sweet and caressing:); as actors, however, they were not the Pacino nor de Niro of their time:lol:.

The three guys you mentioned plus Fabian were in the movies because they sold a lot of Records and the people who bought a lot of those records would come to see them in the movies.

When Elvis was drafted, there was somewhat of a void and a number of these singers even did a lot better on the Top 40 at that point.

For the life of me, I can't see how you can compare Pat Boone to a singer like Nat King Cole?????

However, Pat Boone had a good, above-average voice and accredited himself very well with American pop music standards.

Frankie Avalon had a nice limited voice too and some Talent ability with the trumpet.

 

*Ricky Nelson managed to get past the limitations of his voice due to the intimate and charismatic quality of not just his voice, but also his personality and his looks. Ricky was so different from the others that we had mentioned because he had been a star on radio and TV as a child. He had unbelievable name recognition and push and pull in the Showbiz community.*

 

And then there's poor Fabian. Very good looking but recruited into show business at a rough time when his dad had just died and his family needed the money. No voice here, but good looking and a hard worker.

I don't think anybody was looking for any of these guys to be the next James Dean. They were just trying to capitalize off their success on the Top 40 and name recognition.

However, one pop singer, Bobby Darin became a very good actor and was nominated for the Academy Award.

 So, it just goes to show that you can't  stereotype and put everyone in the same category all the time.

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38 minutes ago, Mozart1791 said:

Elvis Aron was a magnetic presence: that is undeniable.

Sinatra was a great actor when playing in good dramas such as ETERNITY and CANDIDATE; trifles such as THE TENDER TRAP were unworthy of him, and he should have flat turned them down.

 Sinatra loved working in movies like The Tender Trap and High Society, directed by MGM musical Legend Charles Walters.

Least we forget, that Sinatra was primarily, after all, a singer.

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As for Elvis, I've often read before AND after his death, accounts by those who worked with him in films( either directing or acting) claim he did have both the desire AND latent talent to become a VERY capable actor.  But both the money minded Colonel and producers did their best to make sure Elvis kept bringing in the music $$$ and filling the theaters with the girlies and THEIR $$$.

And R.Nelson?  Just saw him in RIO BRAVO(again) and I thought he pulled off his character(Colorado) well enough.  He only did have 5 movies under his belt, and making movies wasn't that primary a concern or interest to him.  He mostly struggled to overcome his "teen idol" image and when he turned 21 insisted his recording labels cited him as "Rick" and NOT "Ricky".  And also tried to be known for "meatier" musical efforts.  Personally, I thought he did a pretty good job with BOB DYLAN's "She Belongs To Me".  

And you gotta admit.  He WAS one good lookin' dude.  Even back in the "day" most guys somehow didn't feel shame in admitting they thought so too. ;)

Sepiatone

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Seems I've stepped on some toes as far as Elvis' acting ability goes. We'll have to agree to disagree.

No one can deny that he is a music icon and anyone who says otherwise doesn't know what they're talking about. So I'll leave it at that.

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20 minutes ago, Bethluvsfilms said:

Seems I've stepped on some toes as far as Elvis' acting ability goes.

No one can deny that he is a music icon and anyone who says otherwise doesn't know what they're talking about. So I'll leave it at that.

Beth-- I think you're right that Elvis did not become a great actor. I just felt he had the potential of becoming a great actor and that it never quite developed for him. And I could really see that potential in  Loving You and King Creole. Another movie that gave him a little opportunity to improve was Flaming Star.

Sometimes it takes years. Just look at all those awful movies that Bette Davis made before she really started to hit her stride. And other great actors like Humphrey Bogart, Spencer Tracy and Katharine Hepburn were on Broadway  learning their craft before they ever had to appear in a Hollywood film

Elvis' story is all about what might have been.

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1 minute ago, Princess of Tap said:

Beth-- I think you're right that Elvis did not become a great actor. I just felt he had the potential of becoming a great actor and that it never quite developed for him. And I could really see that potential in  Loving You and King Creole. Another movie that gave him a little opportunity to improve was Flaming Star.

Sometimes it takes years. Just look at all those awful movies that Bette Davis made before she really started to hit her stride. And other great actors like Humphrey Bogart, Spencer Tracy and Katharine Hepburn were on Broadway  learning their craft before they ever had to appear in a Hollywood film

Elvis' story is all about what might have been.

You may be right, maybe with the right vehicle he could have made the transformation from great singer to great actor, but it seems to me he just never quite found that breakthrough film, and then he died all of a sudden.

 

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3 hours ago, Princess of Tap said:

Elvis' story is all about what might have been.

That is so true.     This is why I said above that Elvis was the most talented individuals musically that didn't develop.     I have to think that he just didn't take development of his talent, seriously.    This occurs sometimes with individuals that start out with so much 'god given' talent. 

 

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11 hours ago, Princess of Tap said:

 Sinatra loved working in movies like The Tender Trap and High Society, directed by MGM musical Legend Charles Walters.

Up to what point is it sensible or prudent to allow filmmakers to keep freely making the photoplays that they love?

Remember the monstrosity upon which M Cimino wasted all that moolah that he received in order to repeat the success of his THE DEER HUNTER?:huh:

 

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3 hours ago, Mozart1791 said:

 

To: Amadeus

Artists think its prudent to make vehicles that they love especially when they're making a lot of money doing it and they're enjoying themselves at the same time, entertaining millions of people all over the world.

Frank Sinatra's Robin and the 7 Hoods was a labor of love for him and all of the fans of the Rat Pack, fans of the old time gangster movies and anybody else who just loves to see great singers- performers -entertainers working together in harmony.

It's a movie for posterity - - where else are you going to see three of the greatest singers of the latter part of the twentieth century--

Frank Sinatra, Bing Crosby and Dean Martin --

all trying to outdo each other in a number like "Style".

And where else are you going to see the greatest entertainer of the latter part of the twentieth century - -

Sammy Davis jr. --

Doing everything that he knows how to do in approximately under 5 minutes in a number like "Bang Bang".

In the post-war era, along with the advent of television, was a Golden Age for Show Business, entertainment and popular art.

Thanks to movies like that one, succeeding Generations will be able to enjoy those artists and understand why they were considered to be so great.

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On 1/13/2018 at 10:35 AM, Mozart1791 said:

what some casting directors saw in F Avalon, P Boone and R Nelson.

We still have to work on tightening those "hook" thread titles, though--
Those of us who weren't picturing an Eddy/McDonald thread, you KNOW we were picturing Madeline Kahn...

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43 minutes ago, EricJ said:

We still have to work on tightening those "hook" thread titles, though--
Those of us who weren't picturing an Eddy/McDonald thread, you KNOW we were picturing Madeline Kahn...

You must not be so literal. A LITTLE NIGHT MUSIC is not inevitably destined to be a reference to the Sondheim musical.

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2 hours ago, EricJ said:

We still have to work on tightening those "hook" thread titles, though--
Those of us who weren't picturing an Eddy/McDonald thread, you KNOW we were picturing Madeline Kahn...

You can only speak for yourself--and in speaking for myself I was picturing a Jeanette MacDonald & Nelson Eddy operetta  by Noël Coward. And I'll lay you odds that Madeline Kahn was thinking of Jeanette MacDonald & Nelson Eddy too.

After all, when I think of A Star is Born I think of Judy Garland. LOL But I own a DVD of Janet Gaynor's movie, so it always pays to be a little ahead of the Curve.

FYI-- Ah, Sweet Mystery of Life is not from Bittersweet it's from Jeanette MacDonald and Nelson Eddy's first movie, Naughty Marietta.

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