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Sepiatone

Name changes(TV/movie characters....)

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HEY, and speaking of "the boy wonder" here...

It appears that the character's name of Robin's "true identity" has been changed a number of times over the years. From, Dick Grayson to Jason Todd to Tim Drake to Stephanie Brown(guess SHE was a "girl wonder") to Damian Wayne.

Just found this out after doing a google search about the "Robin" character.

(...and 'cause no, I never got into the whole comic book collection thing like Nip did)

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13 hours ago, jamesjazzguitar said:

A name is old fashion for a new generation because few of those under, say,  40,  seeing the film grew up with others with that name and instead it is a name they associate with their grandparents. 

Fred to me a good example of this.    

As for 'be OK';  say what????   Of course it is OK to make whatever changes those making the film wish to make.     E.g. when the actors are come from a different ethic group.   Romeo and Juliet could become Juan and Carmen.  

You site familiar stories:     maybe to YOU,  but not to a new generation of movie goers. 

 

 

 

 

I guess that makes as little sense as anything else I mentioned as far as name changes go.  

First, I wouldn't presume to think it's "OK" to make major changes to source material just because I might think it might appeal to some "new generation" of movie goers, but to "borrow" the premise and make changes to the names of the major characters, or fit the scene and situation to more contemporary themes, like what was done with "Romeo And Juliet" in the case of WEST SIDE STORY suits me just fine.  

But too, it'd make no sense to me if someone made a movie called "The Grapes Of Wrath", and claimed it was based on the book by John Steinbeck, or a remake of the 1940 movie and change TOM JOAD'S name to CHASE because maybe their grandpa was named Tom.  :rolleyes:  and maybe "Chase" might appeal to a "new generation" of movie goers.   And also....the kid two doors down from me, age 9, is named Fred.  Nice kid. ;)

Sepiatone

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8 hours ago, Sepiatone said:

I guess that makes as little sense as anything else I mentioned as far as name changes go.  

First, I wouldn't presume to think it's "OK" to make major changes to source material just because I might think it might appeal to some "new generation" of movie goers, but to "borrow" the premise and make changes to the names of the major characters, or fit the scene and situation to more contemporary themes, like what was done with "Romeo And Juliet" in the case of WEST SIDE STORY suits me just fine.  

But too, it'd make no sense to me if someone made a movie called "The Grapes Of Wrath", and claimed it was based on the book by John Steinbeck, or a remake of the 1940 movie and change TOM JOAD'S name to CHASE because maybe their grandpa was named Tom.   and maybe "Chase" might appeal to a "new generation" of movie goers.   And also....the kid two doors down from me, age 9, is named Fred.  Nice kid. 

Sepiatone

Changing Tom Joad's name to Chase would be less objectionable than changing the story to where the Joads are now filthy rich. Some alterations are easier to accept than others.

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On 3/25/2018 at 3:36 AM, Sepiatone said:

1. In the stage play and movie THE ODD COUPLE, the character FELIX UNGER's soon to be ex wife is named FRANCIS.  Yet, when the play and movie was adapted to a TV show, the woman's name became GLORIA.   Why?

 

Sepiatone

I've seen many episodes of the TV series, and there is no explanation why her name was changed to Gloria. (Perhaps maybe Frances sounded too close to Florence, Tony Randall's wife at the time.) Felix's last name was also changed from UNGAR to UNGER for the TV series as well.

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On Roseanne, Johnny Galecki's character was introduced as Kevin Healy. His name was later changed to David, and it stuck for the rest of the original series and the revivial.

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9 hours ago, Dargo said:

HEY, and speaking of "the boy wonder" here...

It appears that the character's name of Robin's "true identity" has been changed a number of times over the years. From, Dick Grayson to Jason Todd to Tim Drake to Stephanie Brown(guess SHE was a "girl wonder") to Damian Wayne.

Just found this out after doing a google search about the "Robin" character.

(...and 'cause no, I never got into the whole comic book collection thing like Nip did)

The character's name didn't change, the character did. Those were all different characters using the costume and name of Robin. Dick Grayson was the original, and he eventually grew older, went out on his own, and changed his costume and name to Nightwing. Jason Todd was the second Robin, a different orphan kid that Bruce Wayne adopted. Todd/Robin was later killed by the Joker in a controversial publicity stunt wherein the Joker had Todd held captive, and readers were urged to vote in a poll whether to have him die, and the votes were overwhelming for "YES". I think they later changed it so that Todd wasn't really dead after all and became some other character, but that's after my time. Drake, Brown, and Bruce Wayne's own son Damian all came along later.

So this doesn't really qualify as a name change, since these were each different characters.

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13 hours ago, NipkowDisc said:

I never felt that way. what about bruce wayne or bruce lee?

Yeah, true. Besides the last name was Banner, not Bannon. I was just groping for a reason why his first name was changed. And, as usual, am likely wide of the mark.

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34 minutes ago, Thenryb said:

Yeah, true. Besides the last name was Banner, not Bannon. I was just groping for a reason why his first name was changed. And, as usual, am likely wide of the mark.

If you look at the earliest posts in the thread, you'll see that both EricJ and I also stated that the Hulk name change was due to the "gay implication" of Bruce, at least according to one CBS executive.

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6 hours ago, Sepiatone said:

I guess that makes as little sense as anything else I mentioned as far as name changes go.  

First, I wouldn't presume to think it's "OK" to make major changes to source material just because I might think it might appeal to some "new generation" of movie goers, but to "borrow" the premise and make changes to the names of the major characters, or fit the scene and situation to more contemporary themes, like what was done with "Romeo And Juliet" in the case of WEST SIDE STORY suits me just fine.  

But too, it'd make no sense to me if someone made a movie called "The Grapes Of Wrath", and claimed it was based on the book by John Steinbeck, or a remake of the 1940 movie and change TOM JOAD'S name to CHASE because maybe their grandpa was named Tom.  :rolleyes:  and maybe "Chase" might appeal to a "new generation" of movie goers.   And also....the kid two doors down from me, age 9, is named Fred.  Nice kid. ;)

Sepiatone

You always trip over yourself.     You asked WHY and others explained WHY.    I didn't expect you to feel these "WHYs" made sense of not.    Changing a name to be more familiar to a young audience or because that name might be viewed by a younger audience as an 'old persons' name,   could be a reason WHY names are changed. 

Movies are about making money and not about being true to the source.     

Clearly producers don't care what you think is OK or not,  but instead how much money the film makes. 

 

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I'm sorry.  The whole "old fashioned name" bit doesn't work for me.  And I doubt has ANY validity.  I sincerely think that the number of people that wouldn't find some movie appealing because of the NAMES used for some of the characters would be so minimal as to not make that big of a difference to the overall revenue a movie would rake in had those same people LIKED the movie because of the "modern" names used in it. :rolleyes:  

And based on an "unofficial" poll among most Millennials in the family, most didn't even KNOW or NOTICE the change in the names I brought up, and otherwise didn't really care about it, but too, wondered why.  In other words, it made NO difference to THEM that Fred Gailey was changed to Bryan Bedford, or that Bruce Banner became David Banner for the '70's "Hulk" TV show, but they did notice it was corrected for the more recent movie versions.(and all laughed at the "old fashioned" name idea, saying that they never desired to see some movie because the character's NAMES appealed to them :rolleyes:  ).   and another thing.........

In the movie THE ODD COUPLE, Felix says he makes his living writing the news for television.  For the '70's TV show, Felix becomes a photographer, while Oscar remains a sportswriter.  Again, why the change?

Sepiatone

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22 hours ago, jinsinna13 said:

I've seen many episodes of the TV series, and there is no explanation why her name was changed to Gloria. (Perhaps maybe Frances sounded too close to Florence, Tony Randall's wife at the time.) Felix's last name was also changed from UNGAR to UNGER for the TV series as well.

Looking into it, the "U-N-G-E-R" spelling was original to the play, but(again for some unknown reason) was changed to "U-N-G-A-R" for the movie.  Then back to "E-R"  for the TV show.

Sepiatone

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9 hours ago, Sepiatone said:

I'm sorry.  The whole "old fashioned name" bit doesn't work for me.  And I doubt has ANY validity.  I sincerely think that the number of people that wouldn't find some movie appealing because of the NAMES used for some of the characters would be so minimal as to not make that big of a difference to the overall revenue a movie would rake in had those same people LIKED the movie because of the "modern" names used in it. :rolleyes:  

And based on an "unofficial" poll among most Millennials in the family, most didn't even KNOW or NOTICE the change in the names I brought up, and otherwise didn't really care about it, but too, wondered why.  In other words, it made NO difference to THEM that Fred Gailey was changed to Bryan Bedford, or that Bruce Banner became David Banner for the '70's "Hulk" TV show, but they did notice it was corrected for the more recent movie versions.(and all laughed at the "old fashioned" name idea, saying that they never desired to see some movie because the character's NAMES appealed to them :rolleyes:  ).   and another thing.........

In the movie THE ODD COUPLE, Felix says he makes his living writing the news for television.  For the '70's TV show, Felix becomes a photographer, while Oscar remains a sportswriter.  Again, why the change?

Sepiatone

Don't you think you're nitpicking a bit? Probably Felix's occupation changed in the TV series, because it opened up different story avenues for the writers. Keeping the characters going for over 100 episodes is different than keeping them going for a two-hour play or movie.

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8 hours ago, Sepiatone said:

 I sincerely think that the number of people that wouldn't find some movie appealing because of the NAMES used for some of the characters would be so minimal as to not make that big of a difference to the overall revenue a movie

Note that new adaptations makes other changes like using more modern music.     I agree with you that there wouldn't be a lot of people that wouldn't find a movie appealing or not based on the names used.   I.e. most people don't care, one way or the other.   

Therefore there are few people like you that care that the names were changed.     That is so minimal,  I must be bored to even be discussing it.  :lol: 

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I think that some of the name change business falls into the same category as contemporary hair styles in period pieces, or wrong era shoe designs - it seems to fit & little more is thought about it.

I also suspect that some changes happen to provide continued raison d'être for certain screen writers & execs...

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2 hours ago, jamesjazzguitar said:

Note that new adaptations makes other changes like using more modern music.     I agree with you that there wouldn't be a lot of people that wouldn't find a movie appealing or not based on the names used.   I.e. most people don't care, one way or the other.   

Therefore there are few people like you that care that the names were changed.     That is so minimal,  I must be bored to even be discussing it.  :lol: 

I like both the '68 film THE ODD COUPLE and the TV adaptation.  Just saw no real need to change the name of Felix's wife or his profession, as it was the actions in the relationship between Felix and Oscar that was the main theme of both the film and the television show( and the play too).  And nothing was accomplished positively nor detrimentally in making those changes for the television adaptation, so the name and occupation changes therefore IMHO, make little sense in retrospect.  And it's not that I care all that much, but realizing these changes were made sparked curiosity, and so I thought I'd ask.

Sepiatone

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5 hours ago, TopBilled said:

Don't you think you're nitpicking a bit? Probably Felix's occupation changed in the TV series, because it opened up different story avenues for the writers. Keeping the characters going for over 100 episodes is different than keeping them going for a two-hour play or movie.

I can only think of a couple or so episodes in which Felix being a photographer was used for any comedic  or story "avenues".  Really, it was Felix's personal interests( Ballet, the opera club, his small theater club) et al; that got more use and fruitful results in story and comedy.  And he could have belonged to those groups regardless of being either a news writer or photographer.  Or even a janitor.

Sepiatone

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5 minutes ago, Sepiatone said:

And it's not that I care all that much, but realizing these changes were made sparked curiosity, and so I thought I'd ask.

Much like Limey was mentioning in his last post, you've hit upon something with your topic that's a perfect illustration of Hollywood producers, be they TV or film: they often make decisions that make sense only to themselves. Arbitrary changes like the color of a shirt worn by a character in one scene, or whether characters are eating eggs or bacon for breakfast in a scene, or a million other mundane and seemingly pointless, nitpicking decisions. Many times they'll allude to "market research" as having stated potential viewers like this name more than that, or this kind of dog versus that kind, all basically pointless cosmetic changes and decisions that the majority of us realize don't really make a lick of difference in the end product TV show or movie, but that producers seem to thrive on.

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33 minutes ago, LawrenceA said:

Much like Limey was mentioning in his last post, you've hit upon something with your topic that's a perfect illustration of Hollywood producers, be they TV or film: they often make decisions that make sense only to themselves. Arbitrary changes like the color of a shirt worn by a character in one scene, or whether characters are eating eggs or bacon for breakfast in a scene, or a million other mundane and seemingly pointless, nitpicking decisions. Many times they'll allude to "market research" as having stated potential viewers like this name more than that, or this kind of dog versus that kind, all basically pointless cosmetic changes and decisions that the majority of us realize don't really make a lick of difference in the end product TV show or movie, but that producers seem to thrive on.

Yes,  who knows why changes are made;  could be as trivial as that is the name of a family member,  the writer, or that they want what they believe to be a more 'modern' name.   I.e. there might be some logic behind the decision or not.

But with regards to Felix's profession,   what TB said makes sense.   I.e. they chose a profession they felt was ripe for the type of comedy they were planning on.   Note that the Bob Cummings show had him as a photographer.   This allow comic scenes that typically featured pretty models and funny situations associated with now men act around such women.    I can't recall if The Odd Couple ever milked this or not,  but that type of job gives writers more freedom to take things in various directions.

 

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Well, like I mentioned, they really didn't do much with Felix's photography profession as far as "comic situations" went.  The best they did with it was use it as an opportunity to have reason for some celebrity guest star's appearance.  And not all that often too.

And my guess is that somebody's niece or nephew on the writing staff had more to do with why some "changes" to characters met with approval than "market research" did.   ;)   

Sepiatone

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8 hours ago, Sepiatone said:

Well, like I mentioned, they really didn't do much with Felix's photography profession as far as "comic situations" went.  The best they did with it was use it as an opportunity to have reason for some celebrity guest star's appearance.  And not all that often too.

Monk:  "Would you believe I once ran the biggest advertising agency in NY?"
Felix:  "I shot one of your layouts for you, remember?:  'The Talking Bra'!"  And you mean you just walked away from all that?"
Monk:  "(nods)...Said goodbye to the Talking Bra."

-- "The Odd Monks"

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14 hours ago, EricJ said:

Monk:  "Would you believe I once ran the biggest advertising agency in NY?"
Felix:  "I shot one of your layouts for you, remember?:  'The Talking Bra'!"  And you mean you just walked away from all that?"
Monk:  "(nods)...Said goodbye to the Talking Bra."

-- "The Odd Monks"

See what I mean?  :huh:

I rest my case.  B)

Sepiatone

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5 hours ago, Sepiatone said:

See what I mean?  :huh:

I rest my case.  B)

Sepiatone

That post made my case.   Bras are always interesting.  :P

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Depends on whether or not YOU wear them too, Mr. Dressup! ;)  

Anyway, I haven't heard a bra talk since the '70's and I was living "better life through chemistry" :D

Sepiatone

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1 hour ago, Sepiatone said:

Depends on whether or not YOU wear them too, Mr. Dressup! ;)  

Anyway, I haven't heard a bra talk since the '70's and I was living "better life through chemistry" :D

Sepiatone

So you didn't watch Seinfeld?   

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Here's an interesting one: the 1993 film The Crush is about a writer (Cary Elwes) who moves into the guest house of a wealthy couple and becomes the target of the obsessive infatuation of their 14-year-old daughter (Alicia Silverstone). In the original theatrical release of the film, the girl's name was "Darian". I often don't remember character's names, but this one stuck in my head, because it was an unusual name for a girl. But when I saw it again on TV two or three years later, all references to the character had been badly overdubbed to "Adrian". I knew there had to be some backstory to that. This was in the very early days of home Internet. There was no place to look up this kind of information. I actually wrote a physical letter to the TV Guide section of my local paper, which on Sundays answered questions about TV shows from their readers. There was never any reply to my question. I'm sure the guy didn't know either.

About 20 years later, I learned the story on imdb: writer-director Alan Shapiro lived a very similar real-life experience, at least according to his version of events, living in the guest house of a wealthy couple whose teenage daughter made advances on him, that he claims he rejected, causing her to act out against him in various ways, including damaging his property and making false accusations about him. The girl's first name was Darian, and Shapiro actually used that name in his script. Once the movie was released, the girl and her family filed a defamation suit. As part of the settlement, the name "Darian" had to be changed for all television airings and home media releases.

Oh, yeah, can't say I remember this firsthand not having seen the movie in a longtime, but according to one imdb poster, even though the name was changed in the dialogue, in letters the girl addresses to the man late in the film, the name "Darian" can still be seen. Apparently none of the lawyers noticed that.

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